Carnage in Karachi

ferozk # 154 . . . Rahat is a brand I had in Pindi . . . and as for Amul Dairy ice-creams, they are now available in much of the Persian Gulf, and have recently been launched in the US too. Specific ``desi`` flavours like Alphonso Mango, lychee, sweet melon and fresh-chilli are available in parts of UK-Continent too.

I still don`t see Pakistani media coming out with editorials on the good that is there in Pakistan, though, like good milk products. It is the tragedy of our histories that much time has been lost after Independence playing down many of the good things in our own countries due to a callow and low-on-real-knolwedge media. Sad!

Why do not you correct it? Next Step: I suggest you seriously care to focus on the thought behind the article(if there was any) otherwise this whole back and forth between you and others is simply childish = pathetic.

ferozk -- a typo is a minor spelling mistake done unintentionally -- esp by a sub-editor when he gets a story at 10 at night and when the deadline for that page is 11.30 -- i suggest you hold off judgment on such things unless you see and work in a late-night newsroom yourself -- as for educational standards bit, what i was saying (which you again misunderstood) is that people in a certain educational system cannot be blamed entirely if the standard of the system that they are in is declining -- part of the blame must lie with the system that they are in -- after all they dont live in a vacuum and their failings, or otherwise, reflect society`s failings, or otherwise -- i dont think you know how newspapers work ferozk -- your admission of a mistake point makes no sense -- if a typo or mistake occurs then are you saying that the editor should print a regret or apology the next day? or are you saying that the sub-editor concerned should admit his mistake -- you are of course assuming the latter doesnt happen

---

and its not about making the latter ``admit`` to something but to tell them that certain things need to be corrected -- newspapers like dawn have internal means of trying to ensure that such mistakes do not happen but of course there is no guarantee that they will go away entirely -- your example of core as opposed to corps is not that common as you make it seem -- i read all the major english newspapers inside out every day and such mistakes are a tiny proportion of the overall editorial content -- besides, those who make them dont do it deliberately -- i doubt it that you would deliberately try to teach a way that is either disapproved by your institution or which you know to be wrong --

zahraJ -- what are you trying to say -- `carnages are rampant` ??? that doesn`t even sound right ....

It`s pathetic to even skim through the mindset expressed on this board.
No doubt carnages are rampant!

re: veeresh # 151

Thanks for the suggestion and I would try those ice creams, as soon as they start selling them in Pakistan.

Ciao

re: Omar R. Quraishi

My mistake. You were right and I was wrong about the spelling of the ice cream in question. As to ``bye`` and ``by`` election spellings, I use the American spellings for words. The last time, I used British spellings was in the 1980s. However, your point is noted since the print media in South Asia uses the British spellings and that would explain the reason, why papers use spellings, which I find wrong.

Omar, the point is not about typos per se. The point is about spellings and there is a difference between a typo and a spelling mistake. Are you suggesting that a reporter does not know the difference between a ``core`` and ``corps`` and if s/he knows, how can it be a typo? In any case, whether it is a typo or a spelling mistake, it is a poor reflection on Dawn being an English language newspaper. Most of these ``mistakes`` are in the columns by ``staff reporter``; the editorials are generally free from error of grammar and so are the features in Dawn.

On the other hand, you mentioned on the topic of typos that it ``reflective not of educational qualifications but of the declining standard of education in pakistan``. What is the difference? Does not a declining standard of education reflect educational qualifications? The standard of education determines to a large extent the educational qualifications. This is how it works in the rest of the world.

Omar, a slip of tongue or error made by me, in class, which is later corrected by students, is a reflection of my educational qualifications, because that is how the students will judge me as a teacher in a classroom. I have to be accountable to my students and they have a right to hold me accountable for what I teach them and how I teach it. A person, should not be afraid to admit a mistake and to give credit, where the credit is due. Admiting mistakes is a sign of confidence and if a person is confident in their abilities, they will admit to their mistakes and seek to learn from them and if their are insecure, they will always refuse to admit their mistakes by always trying to claim that they are right.

Ciao

hahah -- terrible joke veeresh sahib -- at least your jokes should be slightly funnier -- travel/automobile writers need to understand that there`s a world of a difference between a haagen dazs and amul dairy -- and that the latter isnt available in pakistan -- `i think`

ferozk # 148 . . . on basis of cost, taste, consistency and general well-being, you should try Amul, Vadilal or Mother Dairy Ice-Creams from India. After discounts and freebies and promos, a litre often ends up costing 50 - 100 rupees retail.

Nirula`s, too, are great. (though I found Nirala`s in Islamabad as good, to tell you the truth. )

At the end of the day, I wish to tell all of you that the ice-cream I had at Rahat in Pindi in the middle of the night was amazing. Just lovely.

Pakistani media needs to spend more time writing editorials about ice-cream from India, I think.

ferozk -- for a teacher i am amazed at your lack of the english knowledge -- using `bye` and not `by` as a prefix to an election depends on usage -- both are correct -- as in `bye` is an acceptable variation for `by`, esp. when used with `election` -- this is a practice that most south asian papers and the british press use -- seriously, if you must pick flaws with a newspaper there have to be grounds better than this --

as for: `I hope those are unintentional typos and are not reflective of the educational qualifications of the Dawn journalists, who write the stories.` -- i dont know ferozk, readers are a better judge i suppose -- but tell me, if while lecturing in class you make a slip of the tongue or an error which is later corrected by one of your students, is that a reflection of your educational qualification (or lack thereof)?

ferozk -- plz -- its spelled haagen dazs -- not what you wrote -- typos happen in newspapers all over the world tho i agree that of late they seem to be happening much more in dawn -- thats reflective not of educational qualifications but of the declining standard of education in pakistan -- at this stage its difficult, i suppose, for them, to unlearn so much -- our sub-editors mostly come from local universities -- and the editor or other senior editors cannot sub and proof every story that goes in -- personal beliefs apart, the daily times sometimes tends to follow a very narrow agenda, of its editor and publisher -- but yes its prob a better subbed paper --

``gratitude owed to the establishment`` -- well what can i say feroz -- you are the first reader i have had in my career who has drawn this inference from what i have written -- you live in lahore right, ask i a rahman (if he remembers me) or lahori (the guy who writes the column for dawn and is our resident editor there) how pro-establishment i am -- strange you should bring the teacher thing up -- speaking from personal experience?

re: inquilaabi # 147

No, you are right. That is not the point.

Incidently, I will have to re-check the spelling. I might be wrong, but I think that they do make it in Pakistan, because the prices have really dropped and it is alot cheaper than what it was used to cost.

Ciao

The correct spelling is actually Haagen Dazs. Unless they spell it differently in Pakistan and it isn`t really Haagen Dazs.

But that`s hardly the point, is it?

re: Omar R. Quraishi

Since we are the topic of words and their exact nature of words, the correct spelling is Hagaan Daz. :)

I always enjoy my Hagaan Daz. It is pure indulgence. Still nothing compares to a slow burning Montecristo curling blue wisps of smoke upwards.

Omar, I am not holding you responsible for the editorial since, unless you inform me, I do not think that you speak for the Dawn group of newspapers. I was holding you accountable to your posts and asking, where in your posts did you mention that statement.

Omar, I still stand by my statement. Your style of posts suggests one of those Pink Floydian teachers from The Wall lecturing a wayward pupil and reminding him of the gratitude owned to the establishment. Were you ever a teacher once? Your style certainly hints towards a past teaching career or a teaching experience.

Instead, I wish ask you on the matter of typos, what do you plan to do about the typos, which are so common in Dawn? I saw a heading on the by-elections in Karachi, where the ``by-elections`` was spelled as ``bye-elections``. I hope Dawn was not suggesting a farewell to the elections! I have seen the word ``corps commander`` spelled as ``core commander``. I have also spotted the word ``whether`` spelled as ``weather`` in Dawn.

In fact, I encourage my students to read Dawn to improve their spelling skills by spotting the spelling mistakes. I hope those are unintentional typos and are not reflective of the educational qualifications of the Dawn journalists, who write the stories. Even if they do write such sub-standard English, how does it get past the editors at Dawn?

Personally, I find the editorials in The Daily Times much better.

Ciao

ok ras -- sure -- it was reviewed here too this past winter when it was premiered in pakistan during the karafilm festival -- btw i think khalid hasan, the daily times` correspondent in washington, mentioned one your reviews at length in one of his columns recently -- btw is the rest of your post about `honesty AND determination` aimed towards me specificially or a general remark?

dost-mittar at 139:

It is not what I wrote, but what is reality.

It would have been among State, Judiciary and Mian family, if the last one mentioned had not requested Saudi friends to intervene. The Clan let our common friends do the arbitration.

This may seem wrong to many, but that is how it stands - it is amongst State, Saudi friends and Mian clan now.

Pakistan will move on - there is a very high propability that we will have Musharraf as non-uniformed President of the country before the year ends, Chairman of NSC and President of PML Q with Jamali as his PM and Ch Shujaat Hussain as general Secretary of PML Q. We will have early elections. PML Q and its allies will sweep polls in Punjab and Sindh and will have fair representation in the NWFP and Balochistan. Of course, all of this is if the Supreme Being wills :-)

As for the cowardly clan - woh ker lain jow ker saktay hain. Kabhi kabhi aik ghaltee bhari parr jaati hay.

dost mitter 138,

It is sad to see that your trip to pakistan has made you blind to pak reality. You did not even care to think about the judicial system in pakistan.
A few months ago, there was a ganf rape as punishment, there was global hue and cry. Mushy intervened, swftly three men were sentenced to death. No one knows whether it was carried out or not. What happened to the hoodood laws that needed male witnesses to rape, nothing matters because mushy wanted to contain the publicity.
The same is true for khan the bomb peedler.
Pakistan is anon viable state, there are no laws. None of the heavy questions you asked about the contract, does it matter in a country where the law says that murder is not a crime against the state non implementation of the lasws is better for pakistanis, similar to education where the illiterate are more knowledgeable.