Carnage in Karachi

tmk -- thanks -- you mean `editorial` by the way :)

Omar:

I didn`t read your clarifications. Good article. And a nice choice of majors at Columbia as well.

-TMK

errr... because i wrote it -- but that aside, the editors of this site were told not to give any byline to it when i submitted it (it should have been obvious to them that editorials represent the point of view of the newspaper they appear in but for some reason my name went along) -- obviously u havent read the 57 times i have pointed that out already on this board --

Omar:

What`s the point of pasting a Dawn editorial under your name??

congratulating your own letter tmk?

Good letter to Daily Times on Sectarianism:

Seminaries and violence

Sir: The recent carnage in Quetta should remind General Musharraf of the unfulfilled promises he made about regulating religious seminaries in Pakistan. These seminaries turn out tens of thousands of students every year who are indoctrinated to adhere to extremely narrow/literal interpretations of Islam. In most cases, these religious students have very limited understanding of the world and tend to judge every issue in religious terms.

This has led to a number of conflicts because many Islamic sects differ with each other on a number of issues. The situation will only get worse as more seminaries are opened.

It is time for the government to consider implementing a ban on opening new seminaries and to close down seminaries that encourage sectarianism and extremism.

This may mean closing down a large number of seminaries, but this will have to be done if Pakistan is to become a progressive and modern state. Proper schools should replace the seminaries. Keeping in mind that many poor Pakistanis send their children to these seminaries because they cannot afford to bring them up or educate them, the government would do well to increase the education budget.

It is imperative for Pakistan’s stability that sectarianism and extremism is eliminated from society. And the first step in this direction will be to close the seminaries that propagate extremism and sectarianism. The sooner this is done, the better. Mere rhetoric is of no use. General Musharraf should know that some of us are still waiting for him to act upon the promises he made.
TAIMUR MASUD KHAN
USA

mog ????

ferozk, plz get a grip -- if you screw up i suppose your answerable to the principal or the administrator or if you are the principal then to the board -- if there is some major screw-up, say a paper being leaked, then it reflects on the whole organization and the principal has to or should take responsibility -- the same organizational principle works in dawn -- if there is a screw up the person has to answer to the editor through his or her supervisor -- and in the end the editor has to take responsibility - legally too, as in going to court to answer cases of defamation or libel and so on -- nobody`s blaming the system -- i was trying to tell you how a newspaper works internally -- you`re obviously not interested -- `justifying excuses to escape responsibility` -- escape responsibility for what ? i am responsible to my immediate superior and eventually to the editor and in my case its the same person -- that was precisely why i made a fuss when this editorial came on this website with a byline -- as for our readers, they can call us, email or write to us -- usually its through the editor -- and we try and address their concerns but it doesnt help if they become personal or begin to launch sweeping/generalized charges/accusations --

The Omar reasons and the excuse and virages proves again that the anglophiles generation nevertheless is not passed us in Pakistan. What does it is the means of journalist, that it cannot take even corrective?

Sometimes one has to know when to stop talking. Especially if it is continually at cross-purposes. It is nothing but a waste of breath one can waste somewhere else.

re: Omar R. Quraishi

Omar, your posts, so far, seem to be justifying excuses to escape responsibility.

I also work under pressure. I also have deadlines. Omar, are you suggesting that only those who work for a newspaper, have to deal with deadlines and work under pressure? If, I make a mistake in my classroom, I accept the responsibility. If Dawn makes a mistakes, who accepts responsibility on the behalf of Dawn? Is Dawn a responsible newspaper or not?

In Pakistan, we have a habit of perpetually blaming the system. We never own up to our responsibility and always dodge by making excuses. Individuals make the system and it is not the other way around. We, Pakistanis, always blame the system, but we never hold ourselves responsible. Afterall, who made the system in Pakistan, if not the Pakistanis? Indians? Americans? Russian? Israelis? Why do we blame everyone under the sun for our problems, but ourselves? Who created most of the problems, which Pakistan faces today? Who created the political mess in Pakistan; the religious intolerance, the ethnic discrimination or the economic disempowerment in Pakistani society? Who?

Ciao

veeresh ji, you are more complexed than previously thought -- i suggest you go see a shrink -- and make it soon -- for the Nth time, i did not say that urmila`s `jhatkas` represented india, i said for PTV to show it reflected a shift in PTV`s policy -- if you cant get a distinction as basic as that then its not my problem -- and no one`s quoting from a govt handout -- another fantasy of yours -- and when you ask, `you would like answers` -- but veeresh sahib, the answers have been given (though its not my job to answer people like you, i have realized), if you cant understand them or are unwilling to digest them or cant see eye-t-eye with them, then its not really my fault -- you, sir, as they say, need to chill out in a big way -- and veeresh ji if you grew up thinking that pakistan was this haven for muslims, i wonder what gave you that impression -- stop tormenting those who were born much later than you and live in another country, go ask these questions from those who schooled you or the pakistanis you interacted -- if you think that as a pakistani i tell indians that pakistan is a haven for muslims, then for you, sir, is little hope --
`dawn or dusk?` wah kya sawal hai!

Omar ji # 159 . . . what for abhee bus karein sirji?

Putting things across as simply as possible:-

For a long time now, since as long as my memory goes and from before too, it seems to me as though ``explaining`` problems especially pertaining to status of Muslims in India was the single role available for Indians in their interactions with Pakistanis.

Right or wrong, good or bad, the demand and attempt to answer was always there, and the media had a field day, Pakistani media asking and Indian media answering. Every communal riot in India would get dissected, and rightly so. Fair enough. Many of us grew up thinking that hey, yes, Pakistan was this heaven for Muslims.

However, when Indians started realising that India is a better place for Muslims, and asking Pakistanis about problems faced by Muslims in Pakistan, or similar, the response from you is ``abhi chup bhee karein``? What for, Omar ji?

There were simply not too many questions about problems for Muslims in Pakistan which Pakistanis had to answer because Indians didn`t know the questions.

Now matters are different.

So when I ask, I would like answers, and is that so incorrect of me?

I don`t get similar responses from the Urdu media in Pakistan. At least they enter into debate. You, you send out patronising and supercilious responses, when I start with asking you how you felt that Urmila Matondkar`s jhatkaas in any way represented India, then you go into twists over the Real role of Father PTV and finally, when the evidence is there under the bonnet, you quote from Press Releases like Government handouts?

Rightly said by a Pakistani, Sir, that ``they`` told us that everything is fine and under control, and then ``they`` told us to drink dhania ka juice, shut the door, ignore the screams, and go to sleep.

Dawn or Dusk??

zahra, you have the right to your opinion but please dont twist the facts -- your assertion that indians never indulge in childish or immature marks is quite untrue -- for the brief time i have been interacting on this site i have seen many indians indulge in paki-bashing at will -- and as the writer of the article (i am not sure whether you know the difference between an article and an editorial but still) i dont think i am the moderator of the discussion -- the moderators of any discussion on any board on this site are the editors of chowk, and i am not one of them -- zahra i dont necessarily come on chowk to `display my intellectual energies`, i have real life for that, esp. my job -- i come to chowk to, if you will, `let my hair down` and this does not necessarily include `displaying my intellectual energies` -- and i dont think i have time to dig up chowk`s archives -- it should be obvious to anyone interacting here that a lot of name-calling and childish remarks get tossed around here on all boards, by pakistanis and indians alike -- zahra stop being such an apologist for pakistanis -- and by the way the interaction, back and forth on this board, wasnt started by me -- if you have the time go back and read the beginning of the board

Omar: I agree with you on the strong connotation associated with the said word. Now, I cannot go back and change what I have written. I do not have the privilege yet. But reading your back and forth made me feel real bad and I could not resist sharing my true sentiments. Should not you be the moderator of the article under discussion? Should you even go where this back and forth is leading you? Do you even call the back and forth ``discussion``? If you do Omar then I am really disappointed. Kindly dig into Chowk`s Archives. You would rarely find Indians engaging in childish stuff. They have much better control on displaying their intellect and routing their energies in positive direction. I thought you could add a lot to Chowk by keeping yourself away from the ususal bickering that is part of Chowk`s culture. I thought fresh perspectives would be healthier but you have already gotten yourself into ego wars. It may be part of displaying your manliness. A typical Pakistani Trait! Just an observation. I certainly have better things to do than writing this, but somehow I wanted to share my two cents. Take it or discard it - certainly, your prerogative. No hard feelings. Somehow, I thought you could do better than what you are getting yourself into. That`s it.
Sorry for the intrusion.
Kindly continue.

zahra, we have been able to talk to each other on this board without using the word `pathetic` even once -- you wonder if there was `any thought` behind the article? well, i dont know, its up to readers to figure that out zahra -- i thought boards were for interaction, arent they ? these remarks by you, zahra, are very `childish`, `pathetic` if i may add -- tch tch

veeresh sahib -- ub bus bhi karein....