Bring on The Empty Horses
Farzana Versey May 10, 2004
#33 Posted by rsridhar on May 12, 2004 5:35:12 am
re: 30 by Gujjubania
You must remember that for most of the poor and middle class (and i exclude the tech-savvy from this list), high tech means nothing if it does not improve their daily lives. If Naidu, by his high tech, had improved the lives of farmers, he would have been relected. I heard the heart rending stories of many Andhra farmers committing suicide.
My brother bought my dad a computer when he went to India last year (my brother also lives in the US). My dad`s frequent complaint now-a-days is not related to computers but to the fact that water has become scarce in Madras and he is facing a lot of hardship in his old age. Imagine! Water is something we take for granted in USA but is being sold in open market in Madras. Do u think common man would vote for a party that brings in high tech to madras or to a party that can solve the water problem?
Naidu was in a different world. Hopefully, he has been brought down to ground zero. He is still young and should learn from his defeat.
Sridhar
You must remember that for most of the poor and middle class (and i exclude the tech-savvy from this list), high tech means nothing if it does not improve their daily lives. If Naidu, by his high tech, had improved the lives of farmers, he would have been relected. I heard the heart rending stories of many Andhra farmers committing suicide.
My brother bought my dad a computer when he went to India last year (my brother also lives in the US). My dad`s frequent complaint now-a-days is not related to computers but to the fact that water has become scarce in Madras and he is facing a lot of hardship in his old age. Imagine! Water is something we take for granted in USA but is being sold in open market in Madras. Do u think common man would vote for a party that brings in high tech to madras or to a party that can solve the water problem?
Naidu was in a different world. Hopefully, he has been brought down to ground zero. He is still young and should learn from his defeat.
Sridhar
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#34 Posted by Nass on May 12, 2004 5:35:13 am
Ferzana I actually did not know you were Indian. I have not read very many of your articles but will now do.
#35 Posted by harish_hyd on May 12, 2004 5:35:14 am
I don`t understand what the fuss is all about. If a movie star is enlisted to campaign for a party, what is wrong with it? After all, aren`t film personalities human beings with minds of their own? And even if they do it for the money, what`s wrong? It surely is not illegal, is it? After all, even the poor man who attends rallies at farawy places demands transport and food. This is a democracy, and people are free to express their choice, and what`s so wrong with a star campaigning for a candidate? People have the choice to either accept or reject a candidate, and no amount of charisma and star appeal can hold people in thrall for long. The ultimate test for any politician is to deliver, and if he/she doesn`t, the masses are smart enough to take care of that.
Coming to film stars in politics, tell me how many have made it big in politics? Except for a few like NTR in Andhra Pradesh and MGR and Jayalalitha in Tamil Nadu, hardly any. And even these leaders could survive only because they quickly adapted to their new profession, not because they oozed charisma.
I think mocking the system in India is easy, especially when you haven`t seen the retrogressive conditions that exist in some of our neighboring countries. One must remember that the democracy that we have in India, however flawed, is a gift that must be cherished forever.
Coming to film stars in politics, tell me how many have made it big in politics? Except for a few like NTR in Andhra Pradesh and MGR and Jayalalitha in Tamil Nadu, hardly any. And even these leaders could survive only because they quickly adapted to their new profession, not because they oozed charisma.
I think mocking the system in India is easy, especially when you haven`t seen the retrogressive conditions that exist in some of our neighboring countries. One must remember that the democracy that we have in India, however flawed, is a gift that must be cherished forever.
#36 Posted by harimau on May 12, 2004 7:43:35 am
Ref harish_hyd #35
[Coming to film stars in politics, tell me how many have made it big in politics? Except for a few like NTR in Andhra Pradesh and MGR and Jayalalitha in Tamil Nadu, hardly any. And even these leaders could survive only because they quickly adapted to their new profession, not because they oozed charisma.]
While decrying the influence of film stars on Indian politics, nobody in India has anything to say about Ronald Reagan or Arnold Schwarzenegger. And the Far Right in the US keeps cribbing about Jane (``Hanoi Jane``) Fonda, Barbra Streisand, and the general support Democrats receive from Hollywood.
Look at it this way: Bollywood is merely imitating Hollywood. We continue to make 1930s musicals though that genre has gone out of fashion in Hollywood. We now elect film stars to political office a la Hollywood.
Bollywood seems to follow my philosophy: if it is worth doing, it is worth doing to excess!
[Coming to film stars in politics, tell me how many have made it big in politics? Except for a few like NTR in Andhra Pradesh and MGR and Jayalalitha in Tamil Nadu, hardly any. And even these leaders could survive only because they quickly adapted to their new profession, not because they oozed charisma.]
While decrying the influence of film stars on Indian politics, nobody in India has anything to say about Ronald Reagan or Arnold Schwarzenegger. And the Far Right in the US keeps cribbing about Jane (``Hanoi Jane``) Fonda, Barbra Streisand, and the general support Democrats receive from Hollywood.
Look at it this way: Bollywood is merely imitating Hollywood. We continue to make 1930s musicals though that genre has gone out of fashion in Hollywood. We now elect film stars to political office a la Hollywood.
Bollywood seems to follow my philosophy: if it is worth doing, it is worth doing to excess!
#37 Posted by harimau on May 12, 2004 7:43:35 am
Ref rsridhar #32
[Water is something we take for granted in USA but is being sold in open market in Madras. Do u think common man would vote for a party that brings in high tech to madras or to a party that can solve the water problem?]
No party will solve the water problem in Chennai for the simple reason it is not in their interests. The guys who run the tankers bringing water from the outlying areas are making a killing and cutting in the politicians on the profits. When that lout Jeppiar (this is the Christian ``gentleman`` I referred to in another one of my posts who runs several engineering colleges around Chennai) was made chairman of Metrowater, he encouraged the tanker trucks and cashed in. With several thousand tankers bringing in water today, we are talking about literally crores of rupees a day. Why would anyone want to stop this low-tech economic activity that employs so many people and provides a useful service while also giving a cut to the politicians? What use would a piped water system that delivers free water to the public be? It only sucks up capital investments and delivers no cash outflows. (By the way, the courts have ruled that a homeowner must pay both the water and the sewage tax to the municipal corporation even if one could prove that no water was delivered to the house... which is rather easy to prove. The street we live on has been cut off from the municipal water system for a couple of years now.)
The only reason they are laying that 200-mile pipeline to Veeranam lake is so that Jayalalitha can prove that at least she made an effort while Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion used the same project 20 years ago to collect bribes and never completed the project. Should by any chance Chennai gets more water because of the Veeranam pipeline, then she hopes to defeat DMK in its core constituency of Chennai Metro.
So it is a political calculation. It has nothing to do with doing anything for the benefit of the people.
[Water is something we take for granted in USA but is being sold in open market in Madras. Do u think common man would vote for a party that brings in high tech to madras or to a party that can solve the water problem?]
No party will solve the water problem in Chennai for the simple reason it is not in their interests. The guys who run the tankers bringing water from the outlying areas are making a killing and cutting in the politicians on the profits. When that lout Jeppiar (this is the Christian ``gentleman`` I referred to in another one of my posts who runs several engineering colleges around Chennai) was made chairman of Metrowater, he encouraged the tanker trucks and cashed in. With several thousand tankers bringing in water today, we are talking about literally crores of rupees a day. Why would anyone want to stop this low-tech economic activity that employs so many people and provides a useful service while also giving a cut to the politicians? What use would a piped water system that delivers free water to the public be? It only sucks up capital investments and delivers no cash outflows. (By the way, the courts have ruled that a homeowner must pay both the water and the sewage tax to the municipal corporation even if one could prove that no water was delivered to the house... which is rather easy to prove. The street we live on has been cut off from the municipal water system for a couple of years now.)
The only reason they are laying that 200-mile pipeline to Veeranam lake is so that Jayalalitha can prove that at least she made an effort while Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion used the same project 20 years ago to collect bribes and never completed the project. Should by any chance Chennai gets more water because of the Veeranam pipeline, then she hopes to defeat DMK in its core constituency of Chennai Metro.
So it is a political calculation. It has nothing to do with doing anything for the benefit of the people.
#38 Posted by ankit on May 12, 2004 7:43:35 am
plats8
if you are going word by word, it wont help. maybe shushma was saying those particular things because people of that region identify with karva chauth and kabir ke dohe.
in guntur she might have talked about ganesh chaturthy and sambhar, or maybe in burdawan about illis machh, lucchi and rabindra sangeet.
if you are going word by word, it wont help. maybe shushma was saying those particular things because people of that region identify with karva chauth and kabir ke dohe.
in guntur she might have talked about ganesh chaturthy and sambhar, or maybe in burdawan about illis machh, lucchi and rabindra sangeet.
#39 Posted by harimau on May 12, 2004 9:46:07 am
Ref ankit #36
[....maybe shushma was saying those particular things because people of that region identify with karva chauth and kabir ke dohe.
in guntur she might have talked about ganesh chaturthy and sambhar, or maybe in burdawan about illis machh, lucchi and rabindra sangeet.]
Well, talk about Ganesh Chaturthy may not have worked in Guntur either.
After all, the Chief Minister-elect of Andhra Pradesh is -- Pakistanis, please sit down and have your blood pressure medication handy -- of the Christian persuasion. Will someone google and let us know exactly what minuscule proportion of Andhra`s population is Christian? I have this weird feeling that it is less than Andhra`s Muslim population.
http://www.rediff.com/election/1999/sep/07ysr.htm
The more I look at things, the more I tend agree that Jinnah was right: Muslims and Hindus could never live in one nation.
For the simple reason that there is a difference between whiners and winners.
[....maybe shushma was saying those particular things because people of that region identify with karva chauth and kabir ke dohe.
in guntur she might have talked about ganesh chaturthy and sambhar, or maybe in burdawan about illis machh, lucchi and rabindra sangeet.]
Well, talk about Ganesh Chaturthy may not have worked in Guntur either.
After all, the Chief Minister-elect of Andhra Pradesh is -- Pakistanis, please sit down and have your blood pressure medication handy -- of the Christian persuasion. Will someone google and let us know exactly what minuscule proportion of Andhra`s population is Christian? I have this weird feeling that it is less than Andhra`s Muslim population.
http://www.rediff.com/election/1999/sep/07ysr.htm
The more I look at things, the more I tend agree that Jinnah was right: Muslims and Hindus could never live in one nation.
For the simple reason that there is a difference between whiners and winners.
#40 Posted by rahul_capri on May 12, 2004 9:46:08 am
A democracy gives its citizens the right to question and discuss itself.That is one of the reasons why it is a democracy.There is no need to be touchy about that.Now, to the point of celebrities endorsing politics.This seems to happen in USA too. Schwaggerneger is governor and both the Bush and Kerry campaigns are nothing short of theatrical. Many of the Hollywood actors have some sort of political allegiance and work for fund raising,or contribute.
About 6-7 years ago, when I was in college,some of my friends were student leaders, who went on to play some kind of role in local politics.I remember, one of them said to me-``If a leader comes to your constituency and he does not see crowds, you are never going to get the party ticket``. So, democracy, atleast from the outside, is certainly populistic.Britney Spears is always going to be more important than Bob Dylan.
In India, since the previous few elections ,celebrities have had a better than average record in politics,at least for the first time.
I wonder what the normal career graph of a politician is.Among the following?
1-unruly student-student union leader-``chamcha`` of a neta-municipal election-mla-mp
2-criminal-``thekedar``-criminal-mla-criminal-mp-criminal
3-ideologist-joined politics influenced by jp/lohia/marx/lenin/rss/nehru-average age over 60 years
4-religious fanatic-has some sort of religious currency
There may be others...
For some, politics is a way of getting up the social ladder, for others it is a means to advance their businesses.For others, it is just the ``family business``.
Probably the masses have got tired from these career graphs.They want to give others a chance. Besides actors,we have also seen many bureaucrats coming into politics.Many industrialists,cricketers too. All other factors remaining the same(Of course, the reality is,that we Indians still,more often than not,vote on the basis of caste,but that is another article,and another debate), these new entrants have,almost without exception fared better than the seasoned politicians, or given them a tough fight.
I wonder what are the qualities that make a good politician?
Street smartness? Eloquence? Desire to serve?
There can be a number of reasons which may have turned people off from ordinary politicians, and towards these people.
``They can`t be in it for money``
``They are probably not in it for fame``
``Lets just try out something new.``
Whatever the reason may be, the question is,are we moving towards a more mature democracy? That is debatable.On the plus side, people from more walks of life coming into politics, that is a good sign. But here, it is not easy for all the people to come in, only for those who are in popular professions.Only those who can pull crowds.But I guess we can`t pass a blanket sentence to all of them.We will have to wait and watch.Some may turn out to be good,some may not.We will have to believe in the power of the masses.We will have to believe in ourselves.
About 6-7 years ago, when I was in college,some of my friends were student leaders, who went on to play some kind of role in local politics.I remember, one of them said to me-``If a leader comes to your constituency and he does not see crowds, you are never going to get the party ticket``. So, democracy, atleast from the outside, is certainly populistic.Britney Spears is always going to be more important than Bob Dylan.
In India, since the previous few elections ,celebrities have had a better than average record in politics,at least for the first time.
I wonder what the normal career graph of a politician is.Among the following?
1-unruly student-student union leader-``chamcha`` of a neta-municipal election-mla-mp
2-criminal-``thekedar``-criminal-mla-criminal-mp-criminal
3-ideologist-joined politics influenced by jp/lohia/marx/lenin/rss/nehru-average age over 60 years
4-religious fanatic-has some sort of religious currency
There may be others...
For some, politics is a way of getting up the social ladder, for others it is a means to advance their businesses.For others, it is just the ``family business``.
Probably the masses have got tired from these career graphs.They want to give others a chance. Besides actors,we have also seen many bureaucrats coming into politics.Many industrialists,cricketers too. All other factors remaining the same(Of course, the reality is,that we Indians still,more often than not,vote on the basis of caste,but that is another article,and another debate), these new entrants have,almost without exception fared better than the seasoned politicians, or given them a tough fight.
I wonder what are the qualities that make a good politician?
Street smartness? Eloquence? Desire to serve?
There can be a number of reasons which may have turned people off from ordinary politicians, and towards these people.
``They can`t be in it for money``
``They are probably not in it for fame``
``Lets just try out something new.``
Whatever the reason may be, the question is,are we moving towards a more mature democracy? That is debatable.On the plus side, people from more walks of life coming into politics, that is a good sign. But here, it is not easy for all the people to come in, only for those who are in popular professions.Only those who can pull crowds.But I guess we can`t pass a blanket sentence to all of them.We will have to wait and watch.Some may turn out to be good,some may not.We will have to believe in the power of the masses.We will have to believe in ourselves.
#41 Posted by jang on May 12, 2004 10:26:24 am
Ferzana
I am surprised that you did not like big-bindi-bahu sushma`s tactics. You have in past used the bright-colored brush deftly to make a point, so enjoy what sushma does as a fellow artist. And can you report on how the local tiger balasab is doing these days? Is he still roaring? Please go to one of his rallies on Shivaji Park and report. I hear that his speeches are out of this world and sushma will have to convert her pallu into a long ghoonghat in front of that master orator.
Also, one request is that articles you write have some street-level reportage (off course with your editorial comments) so that arjun may not think that these are written purely in sea-lounge (or highway lounge or something at the grand maratha). For example, a train ride with govinda etc.
thanks
I am surprised that you did not like big-bindi-bahu sushma`s tactics. You have in past used the bright-colored brush deftly to make a point, so enjoy what sushma does as a fellow artist. And can you report on how the local tiger balasab is doing these days? Is he still roaring? Please go to one of his rallies on Shivaji Park and report. I hear that his speeches are out of this world and sushma will have to convert her pallu into a long ghoonghat in front of that master orator.
Also, one request is that articles you write have some street-level reportage (off course with your editorial comments) so that arjun may not think that these are written purely in sea-lounge (or highway lounge or something at the grand maratha). For example, a train ride with govinda etc.
thanks
#42 Posted by gujjubania on May 12, 2004 10:26:24 am
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#43 Posted by dost_mittar on May 12, 2004 10:43:35 am
gujjubania#41
I think that it is naive to think that the IT sector in AP will not be affected by Naidu`s defeat. Unlike in other states, IT development in AP was closely linked to his personality and is bound to be affected by the loss of the incrdible personal energy he put into it.
I think that it is naive to think that the IT sector in AP will not be affected by Naidu`s defeat. Unlike in other states, IT development in AP was closely linked to his personality and is bound to be affected by the loss of the incrdible personal energy he put into it.
#44 Posted by kyla on May 12, 2004 12:29:57 pm
Farzana - I put up a question for you and others on Off the Wall, and would love it if you`d take it up. This seems not to be the appropriate place for it.
In other news, kudos on the article. I don`t follow Indian politics too keenly, but I`ve been an closet admirer of Govinda a long time.
In other news, kudos on the article. I don`t follow Indian politics too keenly, but I`ve been an closet admirer of Govinda a long time.
#45 Posted by plats8 on May 12, 2004 1:57:59 pm
Ankit #36,
You miss the point. Sushma Swaraj has the gall to imply that an Indian from
a non-Hindu persuasion is less suited to become a head of state, just because
she ``fails`` some arbitrary tests which Ms. Swaraj have decided upon. I`d like to
see what her election speech sounds like in the Northeastern states - exactly
which version of Karva Chauth she`d like to peddle there.
You miss the point. Sushma Swaraj has the gall to imply that an Indian from
a non-Hindu persuasion is less suited to become a head of state, just because
she ``fails`` some arbitrary tests which Ms. Swaraj have decided upon. I`d like to
see what her election speech sounds like in the Northeastern states - exactly
which version of Karva Chauth she`d like to peddle there.
#46 Posted by sri on May 12, 2004 1:57:59 pm
#41 by gujjubania
`` Reasons for TDP`s massive loss: ``
Oh stop the PC bullcr@p of people being intelligent..... TDP lost because people are idiots. Plain and simple. Now they have elected the same evil socialist, borderline commie party THAT GAVE NOTHING OF ANY VALUE TO INDIA in the first 50 years of it`s rule ( Oops.. sorry... i meant mis-rule ). 50 years of sheer waste. That`s the legacy of congress party. What a total loss of time. One would think the awful party might have changed for better... but no. You hear the same stupid policies of free power, free subsidies, socialist policies cr@p from the awful congress party. How about establishing a sound infrastructure ( electric power, roads, efficient distribution, eliminating the middle man, efficient determination of prices based on supply/demand ) that would give an excellent price for goods produced by farmers. Hell no.... the same stupid socialist policies that reward laziness and did not produce any results in the last 50 years. What a mess.
Also expect Communal clashes to start occuring again in Hyderabad ( the ritual during congress rule in the state ).
#47 Posted by ankit on May 12, 2004 3:15:06 pm
plats
we dont know what she was `implying`. as far as i know, it is BJP`s official position that people of foreign origin should not become PM. so i have no reason to believe that the attack was based on religion as such.
secondly, in all probability this speech was made somewhere in UP. why? because the current issue of India Today carries an article about campaigning of Sushma Swaraj. the excerpt of speech that is outlined there goes on similar lines. This is what is from India Today article:
````We will never accept someone who calls tulsi basil, Ganga Ganges and gobar cowdung,`` she says. The men applaud. ``Gaon aur garib ka dard kehne ke liye gaon ki kacchi galiyon mein chalna padta hai. Kya Sonia Gandhi ne kabhi panghat pe paniharan dekhi hai? Kya phool bechti maliharan dekhi hai? Kya ghas katti ghasiyaran dekhi hai? Kya kapde dhoti dhoban dekhi hai? (Does Sonia Gandhi know anything about India`s villages? Anything at all)?``
i dont see anything about religion here.
we dont know what she was `implying`. as far as i know, it is BJP`s official position that people of foreign origin should not become PM. so i have no reason to believe that the attack was based on religion as such.
secondly, in all probability this speech was made somewhere in UP. why? because the current issue of India Today carries an article about campaigning of Sushma Swaraj. the excerpt of speech that is outlined there goes on similar lines. This is what is from India Today article:
````We will never accept someone who calls tulsi basil, Ganga Ganges and gobar cowdung,`` she says. The men applaud. ``Gaon aur garib ka dard kehne ke liye gaon ki kacchi galiyon mein chalna padta hai. Kya Sonia Gandhi ne kabhi panghat pe paniharan dekhi hai? Kya phool bechti maliharan dekhi hai? Kya ghas katti ghasiyaran dekhi hai? Kya kapde dhoti dhoban dekhi hai? (Does Sonia Gandhi know anything about India`s villages? Anything at all)?``
i dont see anything about religion here.
#48 Posted by plats8 on May 12, 2004 3:15:07 pm
Sri #45,
Going back to Sadna`a point - which party does S.M.Krishna belong to ? And what
sort of a time-warp is Karnataka in ?
While we`re vaguely on the subject of IT, this link might be interesting.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/668333.cms?headline=Kolkata~
Going back to Sadna`a point - which party does S.M.Krishna belong to ? And what
sort of a time-warp is Karnataka in ?
While we`re vaguely on the subject of IT, this link might be interesting.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/668333.cms?headline=Kolkata~
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