India Votes - and How!

sadna
//....The point is all those and other specific questions and Sonia Gandhi`s specific answers need to be out there in the public space,...//

Yes - it should be. It is not there, because nobody cares. Nobody expects Sonia to give answers - because she doesn`t know the answers. hey - she can`t even speak without notes.

Gujju # 262

I would never have thought that I would agree with you on anything, but you are right on this one. The surest way of killing somebody`s initiative is to give the free stuff. Unless you earn something the hard way it looses its value and is wasted.

Like the old proverb says don`t give fish to the hungry. Teach him how to fish.

As far as congress being a secular party. it was during its reign that Sikhs were mercilessly laughtered by Sonia husband and his henchmen. If somebody says that it was not communal but revenge how come when Rajiv himself was killed there was no revenge against the Tamils.

My only hope is that communist and congress fall out and we have election again within two years. Hopfully NDA would do a better job at winning the elections.

re:#247 by gujjubania
Looks like u really did flunk your JEE or was that a big facade and u really are a bania buying and selling stocks.
I am not arguing that creation of wealth by free enterprise is wrong. But the wealth so created should be utilised for social programs of poverty alleviation. Even in USA, a substantial percentage of what i earn is taxed and a large part of that money goes into the social security net. So, in a way i am paying for the social security benefit that an unemployed say mexican enjoys as soon as he comes to US and before he finds a job.
I have only seen a lot of hoopla about outsourcing, IT and the wealth it is creating but why is this wealth not being used to generate employment for the poor. What was all that money in the foreign exchange for? It is plain common sense. If i were a poor man in India and i am hearing this slogan ``India is shining``, i will be so pissed off that not just me but my entire family will not vote for BJP. This is what happened.
I do not have to read some pseudo-intellectuals like Gurcharan Das. Neither do i have the time. I just know that BJP had it coming and i was one of the few who said so loudly.
Sridhar

re:#247 by gujjubania
Gujjubania,
In Bihar, minorities are safe. They do not get killed like they are in Gujarat. The first thing is to be a humane society that respects law, pays taxes, and respects other`s life and property. Let Indians get there first. I think Bihar is slowly moving in that direction.
Gujjubania,
Did i not tell u how all the accumulated wealth will fly away but what will save a nation is its strong belief in Law and constitution. India will still survive but i hope many people who gloated over the GDP growth and ``India shining`` at least understand that every little soul in India matters and if that soul is not happy, there will always be friction and strife. What we see today is the result of that unhappiness among a large section of population.
BTW, let there be no doubt. Muslim vote did count a lot this time. They have voted overwhelmingly against the BJP. They were not impressed by ABV`s last moment wooing.
Sridhar

re:#244 by harimau
Hey Harimau,

What i am saying is that politicians can never afford to neglect the poor and get away with this. Where was the incentive for the poor to vote for the BJP? Should they have voted for the BJP because some people believe that eventually the prosperity will trickle down to the masses and this is just the beginning of a great time for India?
I do feel bad that economy is suffering but i think BJP and its brass must take the blame. Just imagine if the BJP had given some hope to the masses that the economic reforms will benefit them. But it did not. Its focus was all on the middle class. The soaps to the NRIs, the Pravaasi Sammelans, Gosh! What a wasted opportunity.
Also, let me tell u, most muslims were not amused when LK Advani on his rath yatra said things like BJP has improved relations with Pak and so muslims should vote for BJP! This is an insult to the muslims.
Anyway, i hope BJP becomes a more centrist and all inclusive party and changes its Hindutva ideology, which is a stupid ideology anyway. I am not sure that will happen though. The only person who even tried was ABV and he will soon be superseded by others.
Sridhar

re:#239 by mohar11
Does it occur to u that the greatest beneficiary of this election has been the Communists? Does that not tell u something? In the absence of good governance, poor can turn to any source that offers hope: even communists. Even a white Italian woman with a Gandhi surname.
Is Sonia Gandhi bad only because she is white? Or is it because she is not Indian enough? I should say that having lived in India continuously since the 80s, she should be Indian enough. I think the law and the constitution should be respected. Leave it to the people again to judge her how she does. Preventing her from being PM just because she has a foreign origin would not be constitutional and would go against people`s mandate.
I end this post with an age old sanskrit verse which tells about the wisdom of the sages and seers of the yore:
``Iyam nijo paroveti, ganana laghuchetasam
Udaaracharitanamtu vasudeiva kutumbakam``
(Translation: This is mine, that is yours: these are the arguments of the narrow minded. For the broad minded, the whole world is a family).
That is global thinking for u!
Sridhar

re: Sonia being a PM
This is from the Outlook:
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20040524&fname=Cover+Story+%28F%29&sid=17

``Foreigner Is An Alien Concept
BJP xenophobia is only recent, foreigners have been a part of our country`s political past Updates

Many in the BJP would be familiar with the Sanskrit phrase ``vasudeva kutumbakam`` which means that the entire universe is our family. The idea of ``foreign`` and ``native`` is therefore alien to India`s value system. Hinduism, which the RSS-BJP claims as its own, is known for its inclusiveness, not exclusiveness.

And if one were to follow Mahatma Gandhi`s credo then there is nothing foreign about Sonia Gandhi. One of the mahatma`s most fiery associates during the agitation for Home Rule, Annie Besant, happened to be of Irish descent. And two of his closest companions were of British origin. The disciple known only as Mirabehn, constantly by Gandhiji`s side, was the daughter of a British admiral. Another remarkable follower was C.F. Andrews whom Gandhiji named Deenbandhu. Even the pre-Gandhi history of the Congress has a prominent individual of so-called foreign descent. As every school child learns, the founder of India`s grand old party, was A.O. Hume, a Britisher who intended the Congress to be a forum for Indians to let some steam against the Empire.

Even in ancient and medieval times India showed a knack of conquering all its conquerors. Some of the most famous invaders such as the Kushans, Macedonians and the Mughals, in fact, became settlers in the land, eventually contributing to the great civilisational depth that makes up India.

That is why it would be intellectually niggardly to call a woman who has married and raised her children in India—besides living through the traumatic assassinations of her husband and mother-in law—a foreigner. Fault her for competence, ability or even a poor accent. But if one were to go by the age-old values of our land, it would be distinctly un-Indian to keep harping on Sonia`s origins. Something the BJP must surely have discovered. ``
And, what was that bibilical saying: He, who reluctantly wears the crown, wears it well?
Sonia Gandhi may surprise us all, who knows?
Sridhar

concerned1

You are right - Sonia still holds Italian passport. So now India has Prime minister who is also a full-fledged citizen of another country.

I mean come on - can it get more ridiculous?

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=59358

``Something like a 6.5 per cent GDP growth is insulated from policy changes. Unless a new government does something incredibly stupid, like jacking up the revenue deficit or reverting to an administered exchange rate.

There is no evidence to suggest that anything like this is likely to happen. Not if one reads the respective manifestoes. Nor if one collates the track record of the Congress and United Front governments that preceded the NDA one. The negative vibes are probably largely a function of the expected certainty of an NDA government returning to power having disappeared. The euphoric rise of the Sensex was unwarranted and so is the present collapse.``

re: How Nero fiddled while Rome burned
Everyone read this link below:
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=334526
Whatever respect i had for Chandrababu Naidu is all gone.
This guy was sucking upto the big MNCs and industrialists big time. Good riddance.
Sridhar

don`t be a sore loser -- no use crying hysterically over spilt milk -- calm down -- accept the verdict delivered by the electorate.....and play by the rules ....

or do you want to move the goal post whenever YOU start losing?.....that`s poor sportmanship.......

patience .....patience... introspection...self-analysis....self-criticism....find out the reason why you were booted out...there must be something really wrong and utterly stupid that you guys did.......that even a ``foreign Born`` could defeat you Shudh Indians hands down....

.....think about it in cool headed way as to what did you do so bad that the electorate whacked your derrier....

.....it`s not the fault of that Foreign-born Italian woman...that your Hindutva electorate voted for a Christian woman and not Acharya Murli Manohar Maharaj.......there must be something lacking in you guys...go and figure it out...instead of crying out loud in Public on Chowk......Analyze...Analyze

Harimau 238 - yes Sir, I know it is a series of sprints . . . but have you seen the sheer number of our own people who put obstacles?

stuka #206: ``Yup....Thousands of American senior citizens wash up on the shores of Cuba, afloat rubber crafts and inner tubes, seeking the best healthcare system in the world....
``

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Good one dude... :) ``

I sometimes wonder how out of touch the Chowk India and Pakistan crowd is with their own country and its poverty. Perhaps this is the result of a capitalist system. An overwhelming majority of the country is massively poor, yet a small number of elite, have the pens, and can paint their countries to be what they are not. This includes both rich Pakistanis and Indians.

People need to take a look at the latest Human Development Index to get the idea of where Cuba is and where India and Pakistan are. I don`t know much about Cub, but the HDI certainly says a lot.

Check out http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/indicator/cty_f_CUB.html

Following are the standings for 2003 (based on statistics taken for 2001):

India : 127
Pakistan: 144
Cuba: 52

Here are some detailed comparisons between India and Cuba:

Adult literacy rate: Cuba (96%) India (58%)
Life expectancy: Cuba (76.5) India (63)
GDP per capita- PPP adjusted Cuba (5,200) India (2,800)
Pop. with access to sanitation Cuba (98%) India (28%)
Pop. with access to essential drugs Cuba (95-100%) India (0-49%)
Physicians per 100,000 citizens Cuba (590) India (48)

Cuba is as far ahead of India/Pakistan as USA is of Cuba. If Pakistan can reach the HDI levels of Cuba, and be 52 on the list, by the time I die, I will be a happy man. Perhaps such comparisons give an indication of why the poor people support nationalization and why the support roti kapra makan in Pakistan and kick out Ayubs and vote in Communists in India.

And perhaps they also explain why Castro is still around in Cuba.

concerned1 #263
``anyway, i thought you said you would prefer traitors like commies/laloos instead of rapists like vhp. ``

What I said was (#243)
``If rape and murder is how the `patriotic` opposition plans to respond to the issue of S Gandhis Prime Ministership, something which has clear cut pros and cons, then we are better off with traitors like Commies and Laloo. ``


mohar11 #261
``These guys ruled India for 50 years and you still have doubt about their competency :) ? ``

The point is not what I as an individual think.

The point is all those and other specific questions and Sonia Gandhi`s specific answers need to be out there in the public space, and it is/was the duty of a responsible opposition and responsible media to put them there.

So far Sonia Gandhi`s opposition and the media have failed this test of their patriotism/responsibilty preferring to obfuscate with emotionalism and public hysteria.

#262 by gujjubania

`` My ajji (grandmother) was also illiterate. Didn`t stop my dad from becoming an IAS officer , uncle from practising law in UK etc. Just 2 generations back , my family was one of the bottom 10%. Now we are top 10%. ``

My family is from a Backward caste farmers in Andhra. In one generation, my father managed to lift us from poverty to upper middle class. Together my father and his elder brother managed to arrange the marriages of my aunts. And no.... the brothers did not rely on any free handouts from any Commie governments. Basically, they managed the crops well, my father found good job, ran a grocery store, taught tutions while studying in college, etc, etc, etc.... They had fire in their belly, they wanted to change our family`s fate, and they did it.

And my father taught me..... THERE ARE NO FREE LUNCHES.

mohar11,

from all i have read...there is nothing that suggests that she has renounced her italian citizenship. i`ll see if i can find the article that mentioned it.

sadna,

[...that they are above the law and free to do what they wish henceforth...]

i think you read/type too fast.