India Votes - and How!

mohar11 #245
Who asked them and when. I only read of one question - about whether she will press the nuclear button after a nuclear attack. She didnot answer and Kapil Sibal issued a statement later saying until they actually are in the government, enabling them learn more about the specific, they cannot say anything about it.

`` I mean the questions are so obvious - also obvious is the fact that they need to be answered. ``

Sure, but what is stopping all these self-declared patriotic types from asking them and many more such? I thought they were high achievers unlike the Congress fuddy-duddies?

What prevents them from raising questions and exposing Congress`s ill-preparedness and incompetence to deal with pressing issues, its lack of competent upper level leadership?

Why is it considered more `patriotic` to hold out ominous threats of civic breakdown, rape, murder and arson?

i don`t see any pro (as in pro/con) in sonia gandhi till she renounces her italian citizenship. that is the very first thing she should do (or asked to do, but won`t). a dual citizen should not be allowed to hold the office of the primeminister of india (or for that matter, any major cabinet post). i don`t know how media/politicians are not raising this issue.

subraminam swamy was planning to appeal to supreme court on some technicality with her citizenship (reprocity basis). no further news on that, not that i believe anything will happen.

sadna,

commies/laloos do not rape? btw, the commies said the exact same thing as you did wrt stock market fall/bjp

:O)

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sadna
//..Tavleen Singh and others ought to have some meaningful questions which the Congress and Sonia Gandhi would have to answer...//

There is no lack of meaningful questions and no lack of people who are asking them - since the day Sonia Gandhi donned the mantle. I mean the questions are so obvious - also obvious is the fact that they need to be answered.

But dynasty is answerable to no one. Sonia doesn`t want to talk - what are you going to do?

mohar11 #228
``Her point is - any (perceived) misstep or a series of mis-steps by Sonia could bring out worst nationalistic jingoism.``

Let us be specific : which set of women is VHP planning to rape this time and where?

If rape and murder is how the `patriotic` opposition plans to respond to the issue of S Gandhis Prime Ministership, something which has clear cut pros and cons, then we are better off with traitors like Commies and Laloo.

Instead of becoming hysterical, Tavleen Singh and others ought to have some meaningful questions which the Congress and Sonia Gandhi would have to answer.

For example what are her views on India`s nuclear weapons. How would she handle a riot situation. How about her choice of Sikh riots accused for candidacy in N. Delhi. What are her views on how far economic reforms must go. What are her views on military spending. What does she think of reasons for India`s poor economic performance before 1991. What does she think of the situation with state finances, subsidies and power reform.

These should have been asked by concerned people BEFORE the elections. Media was either too busy eating lunch and dinner in Lahore or too busy berating Indians for not being patriotic enough to believe in India Shining. The NDA was too busy congratulating itself for winning a second term. You snooze, you lose.

We get the leaders we deserve, this goes for the erstwhile NDA, the Indian middle class, Indian media, and all of us too. Threatening murder and mayhem now is no great sign of patriotism, it is a sign of utter contempt for the system and a sign of being very sore losers, just like every other tinpot dictatorship.

Ref rsridhar #234

[Let us not forget who makes up 70% of India. It is these poor wrethed souls who banias like u seem to despise so much. And they have just given a resounding slap to the Ambanis and the Birlas.]

The Ambanis came up under -- I know this is going to be a bit hard for you to digest, so just call up the hospital pharmacy and get some Di-gel -- Indira Gandhi and the Congress.

Birlas increased their wealth -- and the number of companies they owne -- under Indira Gandhi despite that pretentiously-named MRTP (Monopolies and Restrictive Trade Practices) law.

You are behaving no better than the Biharis -- my dad doesn`t get drinking water in Chennai so let us throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Your dad could bloody well afford Bisleri considering that two of his children are in the US.

Fifty years of ``caring`` for the poor -- what has it got them or anybody else? It isn`t as if the land was flowing with milk and honey under Congress and Big Bad BaJPayee took it all away and wouldn`t even provide drinking water in return.

The ancient Greeks were right: against stupidity, the very Gods struggle in vain.

Ref veeresh #236

[As long as the self-correctives and assimilations of democracy are in position, (and are not usurped by an extreme left or extreme right) I think the slow march forward will continue in India.]

The race is a hundred-meter dash. A slow march ain`t the way to win.

#230 by nasah

Sky is not falling .... only the stock market is. But that`s OK, you would say - because the poor are not affected.

There is one more ``fall`` I see here. Everybody is falling for ``India`s great democracy``. ``India Shining`` is a big lie - so is ``India`s shining democracy``. A bigger lie is that the poor want dynasty and commies to rule.

No - the poor don`t. Orissa is as poor as it gets - they have roundly rejected Sonia and her coterie. ``sonia is not fit for PM - we will vote for Ajja(grand father)`` was the constant refrain across the elctorate.

Hasan - do not fall for this new rhetoric. India is not a great democracy ..... by god - how many more proofs do you need to realize this fallacy? Sikh massacre, godhra, gujrat, marad - the list is endelss. This so called ``mandate`` is a freak accident peculiar to parliamentary system. 140 seats out of 545 is not a mandate.

But I understand where you are coming from. After Gujarat - you want secularism to rule. We all want that. But you don`t foster secularism by forcing a palace-dwelling foreigner christian on 800 million hindus. By doing so - You are actually do the opposite - you are under-cutting secularism. You acutally feed the hindu nationalism monster. You push the border line, apolitical hindus into the RSS fold. You put the last sraw on their back.

Who is going stop VHP? When millions march to Ayodhya - sonia, the roman catholic will fire upon them? When the ``India colonized`` rhetoric reaches its pitch - who is going to counter them - the commies?

I mean who needs this sh!t man - who needs this unnecessary complication? Just when we need to go aggressive on economic agenda - these folks barge in ..... once again in the name of the poor ... once again in name of secularism ... As if we haven`t seen what they have done for the poor for last 50 years and how they have compromised on secularism.

Think about it. Sky is not falling - only you are falling for a big lie.

rsridhar
//...This ``trickle down`` theory has obviously not worked in India. ..//

Yes it has. 150 millions have grown out of poverty in last 10 years of economic reform. The number has gone down from 36% to 25%. Remember?

Hmmmm.... let`s see the after effects

So the stock market crashes. Less investment money available for companies to spend on their projects. May be Reliances, Godrejs, etc, etc can now forget about their plans to expand their factories in the cheap real estate areas of India. So what the heck, the rural unemployed can now atleast take solace in the comforting ``self-pity`` words of commies and their friends. Wow! amazing voters choice indeed ( or is it amuzing ? ).

PS: Commies are cancer.

PS to mohar11

Add one more question which Sonia Gandhi should be/should have been asked :

Now that R Gandhi has been declared innocent in the Bofor`s investigation, would she expediate or would she stop further action on the Quatrocchi/Snam-Progetti connection?

re:#235 by arjun_m
The way to serve poor is: invest in their future. This is govt`s job. The world over, u do not find Corporate bodies doing the job of ``poverty alleviation``. Corporate bodies are there to make profit. They do not care about the poor. The economists have been saying that this is not so bad as the profit they make eventually results in more investments and generate more employment for the people. This ``trickle down`` theory has obviously not worked in India. MIllions of Indians felt left out of this ``India Shining`` business. They are the ones who want change.
Sridhar

As long as the self-correctives and assimilations of democracy are in position, (and are not usurped by an extreme left or extreme right) I think the slow march forward will continue in India.

People on this website seem to forget that nothing has changed in India with the roles played by the judiciary, executive, media and defence. The Upper House (Rajya Sabha) remains the same and will, as a matter of fact, reflect the last few years in its composition more than anything else. The Sovereign, both President and People of India, remain where they were.

All that has changed is that a new set of Ministers will head Ministries.

The important thing is that this is a slow march forward.

For example - I get to go help tweak on the ground realities with bio-mass gasifiers for 25-50 KW rural electrification plants coupled with PV. Pilot projects using abandoned petrol engines from old cars, running in back-of-beyond districts all over the country, some places at corners of the country, one has to use airplane + taxi + boat + foot to get there and still be within 8 hours of Delhi . . . have the poorest of the poor lining up to pay Rs 8.oo per unit . . . even they know that waiting for free electricity to reach them will take some time, the party in power does not matter, so they might as well get into the community. But more than that, they also know that they will need to safeguard themselves from the same parties, left, right and centre, once they reach even a little level of affluence.

And that, my dear Chowkies, is the beauty of India as I see it on the ground level lately, the realisation and resurgence from below comes inexorably. Slowly, sure, with many stumbles, but it comes. And it does not always come only with violence, but with some elements of common sense. Helped no doubt by people like an interactor here, I don`t remember who, who once stated that his Mother made him walk 4 miles to school every day. But mostly, it comes without political affiliations.

By the next elections, we may have an option in the voting machines for ``None of the candidates``. That would be interesting to analyse, too.

re: Gujjubania`s various
My advice to Gujjubania is : take it easy and not behave like a typical bania.
Why should the poor people in India care if the corporate India was busy making a lot of money but did not carea SH!T about these wretched souls. When was the last time you heard an Ambani set up a hospital for the poor. He can build an IIM in Hyderabad where he hopes to enroll bright students as his employees, he can go jetsetting to attend various gala events, he can even build a posh house (multistoried with swimming pool, amphitheater and all) for his family and himself to live in but when was the last time these morons took time off to do some charity work.
Gujjubania,
India is not America. In India only 10% of people pay taxes. And all these big shots are actually motherfukcers of the first orders. I am aware that big corporate houses have not paid taxes to GOI and BJP just looks the other way because it gest money for its party. BJP has been behaving like a whore, taking money from corporate houses for services rendered. To that list add USA. BJP without any thought to national security and prestige, had been wooing the corporate america and Israel. India`s assets are not for sale. It is OK to have a freemarket economy but that economy should focus on the poorest of the poor. BJP spent 20 million dollars on this ``India shining`` compaign. Imagine how many schools could have been opened in rural areas with that money!
Gujjubania,
Never forget this. India is a very poor country. It is not just poor, it is gut wrenchingly poor. So poor that when a surgical colleague of mine (an American) visited India recently, all he could see was homeless people. In 50 years, India has multiplied poverty. Economic reforms of BJP were supposed to decrease this poverty but, as the poor discovered, BJP had its own ideas.
Like an emaciated person trying to run a marathon, BJP was trying to get India into the big league. India is a world power! India can rival China!
Let us not forget who makes up 70% of India. It is these poor wrethed souls who banias like u seem to despise so much. And they have just given a resounding slap to the Ambanis and the Birlas.
If whole of India becomes Bihar, at least there won`t be any communal clashes. With that foundation, Indians can build a new India.
Sridhar

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# 213 tahmed:

``````That is my two bits, which you may agree or disagree with. dont want to start a separate discussion on religion on this board ``````

So be it. On some other topic, some other time, let`s have that discussion. I`ve always enjoyed interacting with you. It`s been a pleasant learning experience.

-Avkrishna