Feeling Good

HP

``Intellectual honesty is hard to achieve and a mere mortal like me, don’t even pretend to be intellectually honest. I am what I am. But if I vigorously preach intellectual honesty, I may need to look in the mirror often to see how honest I actually am in my discourse here or elsewhere.``

heh, heh, heh, so maybe you will be called intellectually lazy.

satymavada: you ask ``where is the reference that sanctions were lifted against Pakiland after its nuke explosions ? ``

You seem to be unable to comprehend plain english.

Re-read my post #71 addressed to you where I already told you this. For your majesty`s convenience I have cut and paste what I already told you once:

``On my point 1. i.e. you write ``The sanctions were lifted only after 9/11``. You are wrong and are obviously not aware of what happened after the nuclear explosions of May 1998. In October 1998, the Brownback I law was signed by Congress that effectively lifted the various sanctions Pakistan had been put under over the past decade (Glenn, Symington, Pressler) in an unsuccessful effort by the US to stop its nuclearization program. ``

Still having trouble getting it? Go to google and shed some of your ignorance. But quit wasting my time. I dont run the Advani Benevolent School for BJP Retards.

tahmed
//...A secular India will be a great antidote to our BJP types (i.e. the religious and nationalist ideologues) within Pakistan...///

Come on :) :)

Don`t be THAT optimistic.

re:#100 by soundmeister
No, I mean India.
Sridhar

#105 -- i dont really want to know sadna but you were badgering me about my profession so i thought i should ask you the same -- expected reply by the way -- and now you will understand my reluctance to discuss my profession and how me and my fellow journalists should be conducting ourselves with every sita-aaee-gayee (frankly, the reference was lost on me sadna) --

to #103....you can have kashmir...they`re a worthless lot and contribute nothing to the indian economy, and especially their own region....pakistan cannot afford the maintenance of kashmir and kashmiris...it is actually better that they stay in india so you can create mischief and have fun at india and kashmir`s expense...phooey to the missile story..what good is a missile when one doesn`t have the necessary technical expertise to maintain and upgrade it over a period of time.......india ain`t sitting and watching either....after losing 3 wars against india and always claiming to have the latest ``weapons`` in their arsenal it astounds me as to how the pakis keep grandstanding india over and over again..i guess the soft-spoken dr.manmohan singh will be the one who deliver a strong blow to your country that will put an end to your needless obsession with india...get over it man...half of my country doesn`t even know what a pakistani looks like,let alone care....

omar_r_quraishi #117
``you were badgering me about my profession``

By telling you I prefer not to read writers with whom I can not disagree? Rest assured, I will henceforth neither read what you write nor interact with you. If I do, please feel free to call the FBI or ISI out on me.

As to this bullcrap about Sonia Gandhi being the bahu of India, how come she didn`t burn herself at her husband`s funeral pyre?

Ref rsridhar #95

[Sonia Gandhi did India proud by renouncing her claim, something few politicians in India today are capable of doing.]

Yep. Just like her grandfather Mahatma Gandhi. Like grandfather, like granddaughter!

mohar #111 The fact that Manmohan was born and raised in a village close by Islamabad makes me even more optimistic.

They showed the village he grew up in yesterday, and interviewed a number of fellows who remembered him including a former classmate. They were all very proud that their local boy had become PM of India.

harimou``
``As to this bullcrap about Sonia Gandhi being the bahu of India, how come she didn`t burn herself at her husband`s funeral pyre? ``

That`s a no-brainer. She is not a Hindu! :)

...and even Rajiv. His father was a Parsee, so under the Hindu tradition, he would be a Parsee, unless the wild rumours of his being registered as Bob at St. Stephen`s are true, which would make him a christian, too!

re:#106 by tahmed32
Sorry for the delay in answering your post. I kinda got busy.
I agree with u entirely about the hollow claims of BJP with regards to the economic boom that India is witnessing today. It is true that BJP speeded up reforms that were initiated by Manmohan singh himself during his earlier avataar as the Finance Minister. BJP also cannot claim that the IT boom happenied in India because of its policies. BJP was only basking in the glory when the boom happened.
I started out as an admirer of BJP`s economic policies but got disillusioned when i saw how pro-rich this party had become. That in itself would not be bad in a developed country but in a country like India (where the first thing that stares at u when u step out of the airport is poverty), you need a govt that cares for the poor. Millions of dollars were spent to convince the middle income group Indians that India was shining because of BJP. I found this very distasteful.
I also happened to hear a speech delivered by Modi during his election compaign in Gujarat (it was played on the sulekha.com site) and i hated this man even more. His utter arrogance in challenging Sonia Gandhi to recite Vande Mataram (99% of Hindus can`t recite the full poem today as it is in sanskrit), and calling the Congress candidates as ``Paapis`` was something i could not digest. This guy had butchered more than 1000 hapless people in a state sponsored pogrom and he calls his opponents ``Paapis`` (sinners in Hindi). That was the last straw for me.
I think we will now see the true face of BJP, a face which was carefully camouflaged by people like ABV. We will now see BJP tilt more to the right and try and regain the hardcore votes that it has lost. It may also continue to create problems for Sonia Gandhi in future.
I differ with u on your perceptions of India`s nuclear explosions. I think we have argued about this in the past. My take on this is: India came to a point where keeping the bomb in the closet (as India had done in the past) proved meaningless. PV Narasimha Rao almost succeeded in his efforts to explode the bomb until US satellite caught him red handed (and red faced!). BJP, when it assumed office, made elaborate preparations at deception and succeeded.
BJP bullied Pak so that the latter can jump on to the bandwagon. India was thumbing its nose at the great powers who were restricting the bomb to an exclusive club. It is unfortunate Pak reacted to this episode differently (i do not blame Pak for doing so). What India and Pak need is the kind of strategic talks that happened between Jaswant Singh and Talbott. The best way to ensure peace is to know and trust your enemy well.
Sridhar

#122 by tahmed32
//..They were all very proud that their local boy had become PM of India. ..//

Yes - and they would have probably killed or converted the same ``local boy`` had he chosen to live in that village. It`s like Gujjus fawning over Irfan Pathan after his cricketing heroics - after propagating killings and all kinds of hate propganda against his community.

Anyway - I am sure you have your reasons to be optimistic on this percolation theory - but let me show you the flip side:

There have been numerous comments in paki press expressing awe at how ``power was transferred peacefully`` in India ..... well ... duh .... Power in India is getting transferred ``peacefully`` since 1947 ( with one exception ). Were pakistanis sleeping all this while? The lack of awareness is just unbelievable.

If your percolation theory was valid ...... then the fact that India has been doing this democracy thingy for last 50+ years should have made some positive impact on pakistan - right? But it didn`t.

SO is the case with secularism. Barring 6 years of BJP rule - it was INC that was ruling India .... and secularism was professed and practiced (flawed as it might be) since the begginning. But this had no effect on pakistan whatsover. And now INC is back in power - how would this encourage secularism in pakistan?? I mean what has changed??

It would be great if INC rule India somehow does encourage secularism and democracy in Pakistan. But I doubt it - for one: this goes against the status quo power structure in pakistan.

mohar #124 There is always a flip side to everything. Just as manmohan singh`s family would have been killed if they had stayed in west panjab, so would mine have been killed if they had stayed in east panjab. However, we cannot allow ourselves to be prisoners of the past - if we were, no one in the entire world would be talking to one another.

When I refer to the positive influence of India, I refer to some specific things:

1. Secularism: The success of the secular INC over the hindutva BJP is bound to give a strong morale boost to the secular parties in Pakistan. While it is true that secularism has been the expressed creed in India for most of its 50 years, the fact is that religious parties have never been a significant factor in Pakistan politics since they have routinely been humiliated in elections. It is only in recent years and under military dictators that the mainstream parties have been suppressed. It is for this reason why the victory of INC is so timely for the cause of secularism in Pakistan.

2. Globalization: Good relations with India is bound to have a positive economic impact on Pakistan in terms of opening it up to the forces of globalization. Peace in the regions is bound to increase fdi in both countries. Again, globalization did not come to India until recently, so the past 50 years are not relevant.

3. Cultural: India has an increasingly rich and diverse culture with some very positive aspects - the emphasis on education, the promotion of the arts including cinema and music, the large and growing number of professional people, not to mention cricket - that will serve to boost their counterparts in Pakistan. Pakistan of course has developed its own rich traditions particularly in things like paintings and music, but improved relations with India will further strengthen these traditions due to the larger audience.

So, it is not some warm and fuzzy feelings of goodwill, but specific political, economic and cultural aspects that I am thinking of.

Ref mohar11 #124

[SO is the case with secularism. Barring 6 years of BJP rule - it was INC that was ruling India .... and secularism was professed and practiced (flawed as it might be) since the begginning. But this had no effect on pakistan whatsover. And now INC is back in power - how would this encourage secularism in pakistan??]

Just like India, in Pakistan too Muslims would be given a free ride over followers of other religions. Hee, hee, hee.

125 rsridhar
//....It is true that BJP speeded up reforms that were initiated by Manmohan singh himself...//

If BJP speeded up and excelled at something that was started by Singh himself - then what exactly are you complaining about? None of the stuff was BJP`s original idea - and yet they recognized a good thing when the saw one - and carried it forward with gusto. That`s should be a positive thing - no?

When BJP took over in 1999 - there was fear all around that the economic reforms are going to be stalled because of the swadeshi rhetoric from RSS. Everybody was scathing in their criticism - fearing return of ``hindu rate of growth``. Nobody believed BJP could turn out to be pro-reform party and better economic managers. The first few years of BJP rule actually had low GDP growths. Only last couple of years showed the promised growth with only last quarter hitting 8% for first time.

And suddenly - BJP became a pro-rich party which lost sight of poor people. For BJP it was like damned if you do - damned if you don`t. Their successful economic management, instead of being a credit to them, became a liability. All because 2% extra votes went to sonia Gandhi.

And let`s examine the pro-rich and pro-city rhetoric that is being chanted ad nauseam - Which city in India has become world class in the mean time? Last checked they are all the same garbage-dumps they have always been. So where is the pro-city policy that the villagers hated so much? And where are those rich people you are so wild about? A bunch of 20+ code writers who could buy better cologne are called ``rich`` in India?

Get a grip on yourself folks - take a cold shower and then check out beijing, shanghai etc. Now there is your pro-city and pro-rich policy in action - if there is ever one. These cities are world-class - built steadily and deliberately with serious planning and economic management over decades. And now - poor and rich - all chinese are reaping the benefit of such long-term and far-sighted policies and management.

As usual - the chinese have shown the way. But morons in India refuse to see it - logic and reason has escaped from the land of the blind and the fool. One quarter of 8% growth and the breast-beaters are out of the woodwork .... tilting at the windmills and railing against the non-existent ``rich`` and their cities where milk and honey flows in the street.

Just ask yourself one question: Could Beijing be where it is now - if the busy-bodies like yourself have whined as soon as the first sky-scraper came up in Bejing sky line? Of course not. Like Deng said - All chinese are going to be rich - just that some will be rich earlier than others.

Like I have said - with attitude like what we are seeing today ..... 20 years down the line when the chinese nation would be breaking into a first world - jer$ks in india would still be squatting on their hunches ... stilll poor ... still living in garbage-dumps they call cities .... screaming at hard workers who actually bring in the moolah and doing any work at all. The chinese would be laughing all the way to their banks riding on their magnetic levitaion metro....

Only folks who would be rich in India would be the Laloos, secular and pro-poor. Of course - he would be riding that contraption called ambassador car on pot-holed roads and hiding his money in his cowshed.

Good luck.