Censoring Michael Moore

I don`t have time to go through your rubbish, omar. I saw the hyperventilating, but no, I am not having a panic attack. That`s a strange suggestion.
What`s wrong with Aussies, that they accuse your compatriots of terrorism? It`s richer, prettier, ...not too many Aussies migrating to Pakistan, but lots the other way. and umm, I live here? I can`t give examples of Saudi Arabia when I live in Australia.
And no, I`m not a journo, so I don`t study journalism.Have seen Bill O`Reilly, but you can`t compare yourself to him. Get a grip of your position and your country`s. Everyone who doesn`t agree with you is not whacko. No wonder it`s such a weird country, when the opinion makers are like this, what do you expect?
Do you want me to start cutting and posting from the H`aaretz or the Jerusalem Post, though I don`t know what good that would be? They have plenty of articles on the perfidy of Arabs, and letters on the general inferiority of Muslims. Now that`s a good place to go for a balanced assessment of Islam.
There have been plenty of inane Pakistanis-the Hononarable Syed immediately springs to mind. I will always remember him for bringing the vernacular for excreta on to the internet. I`d like to make an observation here, that liberal Pakistanis seem to be about as liberal as conservative Indians. When people`s minds are so closed, I don`t know why they bother to interact anyway. You don`t understand how a free society works. Yes, tribals undress other tribals, what do you want me to do about it? The cops are obviously looking into it. I know the tribals in the NWFP are models of law-abiding citizens, as is the bureaucracy, but we can`t all have such high standards.
I saw the words Rogue army-I`ll tell you who`s the rogue. My brother`s ex-classmate at the Armed Foreces Medical College is posted in Kashmir and got a call to come round a speak to someone who was there illegally. When he got there, what did he discover, but that it was a fellow doctor, from the Pakistani Army Medical Corps! I said to him, but why on earth did they send a dr? Don`t the minions do all the crossings. He said no, the rule is that there has to be one dr for every 30 soldiers in our army, must be the same for them.
I said, so did you pump him for info? He was all shocked and said, did you forget the Hippocratic code? I wonder how things would have been the other way round. By the way, he couldn`t have been lying-he`s a Muslim and we all know Muslims never lie.
BTW, Ram-ram is for the doodhwala, not me. For me you say Namaskar. The doodhwala`s son is now an engineer, I hear, so he`ll want a Namaskar too!

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Quraishi-sahib,

We should let the readers decide who is ``whacko`` and who is not. Obviously, you are not familiar with the openness of the internet and think you can call people names freely. Maybe that is how you treat your colleagues and employees, and in a feudal culture you can get away with it. I am afraid Chowk isn`t your personal fedual estate and we will all be judged by uniform standards of decency and openness.

As for your ``expose`` on India`s problems. Sure, many such problems exist and I am quite happy that we have a number of agencies and individuals who write about them. The clear light of day leads to improvements and changes. This is the principal behind all open and democratic societies.

Your responses are very similar to other people who are part of closed, sectarian societies. This type of person is deeply ignorant about how open societies work. They get very excited when they read a negative report; as they are completely unfamiliar with open reporting. I remember from the 70`s when Chinese and USSR newspapers would print huge articles on the racial problems in the US. They could not understand that self-criticism is an important part of progressive society. And neither do you....

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re:#61 by omar_r_quraishi
Did u fail to notice that, in the article by Asghar Ali Engineer, the riots happened only between Hnidus and the muslims. I mean, it seems to me that the rest of the minority community (christians, sikhs, jains, buddhists, parsees etc) live in peace with the hindu community.
Now, go to the muslim majority area viz Kashmir and u will find that the valley has few Pundits living there today. There are no hindu-muslim clashes among Kashmiris in the valley because there are few Pundits left there. The clash is between the security forces and the rest of the population (majority muslims).
It seems logical then to speculate that a solution lies in repatriating large muslim masses from India to Pakistan. This time around, this would include muslims fromt the south too (these were not involved during the Partition). Since we keep revisiting the issue of Kashmir which is more than 50 years old, it seems logical to revisit the issue of repatriation of Indian muslims who have problem with India.
I am proposing this as a solution to the problem of hindu-muslim riots. This will never go away for various reasons which i do not want to discuss here. By very nature, these 2 communities have inbuilt contradictions. In the absence of any attempts at assimilation, nay even understanding of each other`s situation, this problem is not going to improve. What better then than to repatriate the IMs to Pakistan for which the country was meant anyway.
This seems like a logical choice. This is better than rioting where innocent people get killed.
Sridhar

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nb before u start hyperventilating, the religious greeting references were started by my honourable indian paki-bashing detractors -- as for journalists in the US or Aussie (wow good example by the way) in the media acting like little kids, you have obviously never seen Bill O Reily or people on Crossfire --a nd they do it in actual life -- i prattle on, on a website and with people whom i generally think really deserve nothing better -- because to them everything seems to be an india-pakistan issue -- i wasnt the one who brought pakistan or india into this discussion NB but go on any article on this website, even one on trash by faiza hussain and u will see an (almost always) indian interactor bring pakistan-india ties and relations -- the problem is obviously the other way round --and when you post stuff that shows that india has some problems all that these paki-bashers can do is say oh well this is one example -- well i couldnt care if its one example or half, the idea is that we have problems in pakistan and so do u, but why does every board here have to become a jihadi/kashmir/muslim/hindu issue -- u can see any board, its almost always the paki bashers who bring this up -- now someone is responding to their inanities in kind and they cant seem to take it -- ram ram :) -- and lets not play down this incident -- even if its by a handful of soldiers im sure it reflects VERY BADLY on the whole indian army -- SHOULD WE PAKISTANIS NOW START CALLING THE INDIAN ARMY A ROGUE ARMY -- I dont see most pakistani interactors doing that though i can bet my life that if a similar article was posted on something done by the Pakistan Army we would have several dozen posts by the paki-bashers talking in extremely derogatory terms of pakistanis in general --

pmishra2 -- equally whacko interactor

Communal Riots - 2002

by Asghar Ali Engineer


[ 17 January 2003]

India could not free itself of curse of communalism even more than fifty years after independence. If anything it has been getting worse year after year. There has been not a single year in post-independence period, which has been free of communal violence though number of incidents may vary. The year 2002 has been one of the worst years in this matter right from the beginning as the Gujarat carnage began in the very beginning of the year. We will come to this carnage little later.

In the year 2002 the first reported riot took place in Kozhikode (Calicut), Kerala on 3rd January. In the clashes between two communities (Hindus and Muslims) five persons were killed. The clashes occurred on the question of eve teasing. The whole region came in the grip of violence. More than twenty persons were injured including five women. Properties worth lakhs of rupees were destroyed. A heavy police bandobast was made to bring the situation under control. Kerala is generally thought to be free of communal violence. But occasionally it also experiences such frenzy and bout of communal violence. However, it is generally brought under control as the Kerala government usually does not allow things to go out of had.

Gujarat was next to come under intense bout of communal carnage. It was of the kind, which India had never experienced accept at the time of partition. The communal carnage in Gujarat shook whole world. It was difficult to believe such intense communal frenzy could be incited by the BJP for its political gains. More than 2000 people were killed most cruelly in this carnage according to very reliable sources though the Government admits only about 1000 dead.

The communal carnage began with burning of coach S-6 of the Sabarmati Express coming from Ayodhya and bringing kar sevaks. Godhra is communally highly sensitive and yet the Narendra Modi government took no steps to prevent such incidents. The kar sevaks, as usual, deliberately or otherwise, provoked Muslim vendors on Godhra station including dragging a Muslim girl towards the coach. There was no police on the station despite intelligence reports warning against communal violence.

It is alleged that a mob of 1500 persons (mostly Ghanchi) Muslims collected and set fire to coach S-6. But it still a mystery as to who set fire to the coach. The forensic report says that the fire was lit from inside the coach, not from outside and t required at least 60 litres of inflammable substance like petrol to do the job. The Concerned Citizens Tribunal comprising retired Supreme Court Judges and other eminent S-6. Nothing can be said with certainty. This happened on the morning of February 27 and hell broke loose all over Gujarat on 28th February.

The VHP, the Bajrang Dal and BJP gave a call for bandh (Gujarat-wide strike) on 28th February and violent incidents started from the morning of 28th February, particularly in Ahmedabad. And before the sun set on 28th February more than 100 persons were killed in Ahmedabad alone. Most ghastly incidents took place in a place called Naroda Patia where more than 80 persons were burnt alive including women and children and number of women were raped in full gaze of public. The other ghastly incident took place in Gulbarg Society, Chamanpura where about 40 persons were burnt alive including the ex-M.P. of Congress Ahsan Jafri.

What is worse the Chief Mister Narendra Modi justified such frenzy and described it as reaction to action in Godhra. And all this happened with full complicity of the police and bureaucracy. The honest officers who did not allow carnage in their areas were instantly transferred by the Modi Government.

Some ministers who led the mobs have been named in FIRs. Many mosques and mausoleums were demolished and ground was leveled. Some accounts maintain about 700 such religious structures were brought down or severely damaged. Ahmedabad, Baroda, Mehsana and Panchmahal districts were the worst affected districts covering entire north and central Gujarat. There have been various estimates of the properties destroyed but generally it is maintained properties worth more than 10,000 crores were looted or burnt. The business lost due to closures and migration of labour is several times this figure. Hundreds of Muslim families were totally uprooted. The carnage continued for more than five months.

We have written a great deal on this already and much has come to light in various investigative reports, National Human Rights Commission report and other reports. It is record that more than 30 such reports were prepared by various committees, a record for any riot so far. It was a one sided carnage and not a riot in usual sense. Suffice it may to say that it will go down I history as the worst communal carnage in history of India.

The next riot took place in Kaithal, Haryana. Though the cause of the violence on disturbances on 28th February is not clear but it seems to be related to Gujarat incidents. According to The Hindustan Times report Shiv Sena, VHP and Bajrang Dal mobs pulled down a mosque and caused extensive damage to two others. They damaged at least four mazars (mausoleums) and enforced a complete bandh. Prohibitory orders were later clamped down on the town.

According to HR correspondent ìthe administration acted only after the damage had been done.î According to him a mob started out in the morning, brandishing unseathed swords, iron rods, sticks and other weapons and forced shopkeepers to pull down their shutters. When they reached a mosque near a school, they barged into the building and started pulling it down. They climbed the dome and pulled it down while people watched the whole operation. The police made only feeble attempts to stop it. The mob later demolished the mausoleum of Pir Nurani Badshah and three other mazars were extensively damaged which are visited mostly by Hindus.

A mosque near Ambedkar chowk was damaged by rampaging mob and pulling down portions of another mosque and a house belonging to a cleric behind the mosque was set afire. This extensive damage was done to several mosques and others were demolished. All this was naturally shadowed by the developments in Gujarat.

During the Maharashtra bandh call given by the Shiv Sena, VHP and BJP on 1st March to protest the setting ablaze of coach of the Sabarmati Express on 27th February in Godhra a violent mob went on rampage in Murbad 80 kilometer from Mumbai. Fortunately Murbad was the only town affected during the call for bandh by the Sangh Parivar.

During the bandh in Murbad the Bajrang Dal morcha began looting and burning Muslims shops. According to the report released by the Maharashtra Minorities Commission Inspector Vijay Jagtap, the officer in charge in tehsil town of Murbad went down on his knees to plead with the mob to spare the madrasa. However the mob of Bajrang Dalis was determined to attack madrasa and shops nearby. It burnt down six shops in the market.

It also looted the houses of two prosperous grain merchants and set fire to a jeep belonging to a transporter. The bandh was total and all shops were closed. The mob was also determined to attack the families of some of the well to do Muslim shopkeepers. But they fled minutes before the attack and saved themselves. According to the SP. Police Thane rural Inspector Jagtap was outnumbered by the Bajrang Dal mob. He had just four constables with him. Murbad has no history of communal riots but now Shiv Sainiks and Bajrang Dal and VHP are becoming aggressive in all places and disturbing communal peace at any available opportunity.

The Police claimed that it fired 13 rounds in the air but the Minorities Commission said that it did not come across anyone who could corroborate the police claim. The Police claimed that they had arrested 32 people including the local Bajrang Dal leaders and charged them with attempted murder, arson and loot. The Muslims are a microscopic minority in Morbad and are afraid of giving any details of damage to the madrasa and are praising the role of the police, according to the Minorities Commission.

On 17th March communal incidents took place in Loharu in Bhivani district of Haryana. Loharu was once under a Muslim ruler and was know as Nawwaab of Loharu. There is thus Muslim population in this town. A mob of three hundred incited by the rumour of cow slaughter attacked two mosques and at least 15 shops and houses belonging to the minority community. The police had to fire in the air when the mob could not be controlled by can charge.

When the people belonging to the majority community heard that a cow has been taken for slaughter in one of the mosques, it set out to attack and set fire to this mosque and shops near the mosque were also not spared. According to a UNI report quoting the police sources said that a mob of 300 Shiv Sainiks set fire to another mosque near the railway station and set fire to many shops in Purana Bazar. And in this area all 15-20 shops and houses belonging to minority were burnt down. The palace of Nawwab of Loharu was also surrounded by a mob but additional reinforcements were requisitioned from other places and the palace was saved from being damaged.

Next incidents of communal violence took place in three places in Rajasthan in which three persons were killed on 25th March on the occasion of Muharram. The immediate provocation was the holding of poornahuti yagnas (a Hindu religious ritual) and kirtans for the Ram mandir at various temples on the route of tazia processions.

Curfew had to be clamped in the town of Gangapur, 80 kms from Sawai Madhopur, in central Rajasthan where 3 people were killed and 15 injured in police firing. According to the police violence broke out when activists of the VHP, BJP and Bajrang Dal collected at an ancient Hanumanji mandir for a yagna and kirtan. The police asked them not to gather but they defied police orders and began to shout provocative slogans when the tazia procession came closer to the temple. The police was compelled to open fire when tear-gassing and can charge had no effect.

The Gangapur city has 25% Muslim population and earlier was considered to be the stronghold of SIMI (Students Islamic Movement of India) in Rajasthan. It has always been prone to minor communal irritations although this is the first time that violence has erupted on such a large scale. In different parts of Southern Rajasthan where the Sangh Parivar has strong presence communal tension was simmering. But the situation was kept under control.

Gujarat was still simmering on the occasion of Holi in the last week of March. A Home Ministry official said on the eve of Holi that there was tension in Anand, Vadodra and Ahmedabad and the army had been called in again to stage flag march to instill a sense of security. He also said that stray incidents of communal violence had also taken place in Rajasthan, Haryana and Uttar Pradesh.

On the occasion of Holi on 30th March four persons were killed in communal violence in Akola. Of these four three were killed in police firing and 15 others were injured. The provocation was reportedly due to throwing of colour on a mosque in the old city area on Friday by some miscreants, Pankaj Gupta, Inspector General of Police, said. The police intervention arrested the situation from getting worse. Two persons were arrested for colour throwing. Incidents of stabbing and stone throwing again took place on Saturday after namaz when the police was making some arrests. However, according to Minority Commission Chairman of Maharashtra seven persons were killed in Akola disturbances and he has blamed the police for mishandling the situation.

In Haveri, Karnataka also the police had to open fire on the day of Holi to disperse two clashing groups, which were on the rampage and set fire to a few shops during the Holi revelries in Rattihalli, near Haveri. The disturbances started when some people belonging to minority group objected to the Holi procession which the other group ignored and went ahead with their programme.

On 5th April 3 there were bomb explosions outside three mosques in Hugli district, near Kolkata. Eight persons were injured in these explosions after the Friday prayers. When the police reached Chndr Nagor area of Sikon Bagan, the miscreants attacked the police with stones and ran away. There was hand grenade with one of the miscreant, which exploded and he was critically injured. Paramilitary forces and Rapid Action Force was called in to control the situation. In these disturbances one person died and 7 were injured and 30 persons were arrested.

Bahraich town in U.P. witnessed communal flare up on 1st April when some temples were desecrated and in retaliation a mausoleum was desecrated. The Purana Bazar locality of Nanpara area was gripped with communal tension as a result of the desecration. One person was arrested and security was tightened.

On April 10 Kalyan some 80 kms from Mumbai flared up resulting in loss of three lives. This was result of an old feud between two persons belonging to two different communities. Soon it resulted in mob violence, arson and loot. Curfew was imposed on the area. The clashes turned into communal one as the Shiv Sena claimed that of those dead, one is a Shiv Sainik. The police resorted to firing 10 rounds as the mob attacked the police van. The incidents started when a horse-carriage owner Salim Sheikh stabbed Ashok Walunj and Walunj stabbed Sheikh. Walunj died. Sheikh was also critically injured.

Walunjís mother died of shock and Sheikhís wife Naseem also died of wound. On hearing this a mob of 400 persons gathered leading to arson and loot. Fifteen houses, including a shop belonging to a Shiv Sainik, were burnt. Rohidaswada where the incidents took place has often witnessed communal tension.

On 20th April, communal clashes started after murder of a student who was allegedly killed by some people belonging to minority community. Security was tightened and Rapid Action Force was also deployed. Curfew was imposed after explosion of bomb near a police van. According to the police there was bomb explosion at one more place. Five persons of minority community were arrested. After the incidents in Mahow there were communal disturbances in two more villages in the vicinity. In Ashapur Gaon a person from minority community was shot dead and in Choradia too, one person from minority community was shot dead.

On 13th April two persons were killed in Nandurbar in Maharashtra one of whom was killed in police firing. Six were injured in the firing. One who was killed in police firing was Yogesh Rathore. Nandurbar is a tribal dominated town bordering Gujarat where communal violence continued since February. Trouble began in Kali Masjid locality when two groups clashed on game of cards. It soon turned into large-scale clashes next day. People threw stones and attacked each other. Deputy Superintendent of Police was also injured during these clashes. Seven houses were burnt in the town. Two journalists were also injured.

On 13th May in Saharanpur in U.P there were two bomb explosions outside a mosque, which resulted in communal tension. One more bomb was found in a shoe. There was a chit with it on which ëArya Senaí was written. It happened in Khan Alampura locality. On 14th May there were clashes between Hindus and Muslims in Badaun in U.P. on account of personal feud in a marriage. There was private firing and stone throwing in which 12 persons were badly injured. The clashes lasted for nearly three hours when police controlled them. The mob began setting fire to various properties. Sixty persons were arrested by the police.

On Ist June there were communal clashes in Tilaknagar area of Bangalore. The clashes started when some one took objection for taking out procession in front of a mosque. There was firing by the police to disperse the mob. One person was stabbed and thirteen persons were injured. Sixty persons were arrested by the police. The mob was indulging in stone throwing and setting fire to properties.

On 19th June three persons died in Jamner taluka of Jalgaon district two of whom died in police firing. One five -month old baby died of suffocation when its mother held it tight to her bosom to save the child. Of the three persons one died in police firing and two were burnt alive and one stabbed to death. 40 persons were injured. There was tension in the town since 7th June when a dead animal was thrown outside mosque. To start the riot one Ratnakar Padmakar Joshi stole the silver eyes of Hanuman idol on 15th June. He was arrested by the police and silver eyes were recovered from him. Subsequently the toll in Jamner rose to five and 22 were injured.

The one who died in police firing was Yusuf Khan Aziz Khan Pathan (32). Two others, Ramesh Mali (55) and an unidentified driver of a tempo were burnt alive while Shaikh Gulab Sheikh Aziz (24) was stabbed to death.

Subsequently the disturbances started in Jalgaon and Bhusaval too on 20th June. The Hindutvawadis declared bandh in the district and properties were set on fire. A driver Haji Riyaz Ahmed was burnt alive and many trucks and tempos were burnt in Jalgaon area. More than 100 persons were arrested. One Anis Ahmed was seriously wounded when attacked with sharp weapons. His intestines came out but he survived. One Rukhsanabi and her husband Abdul Aziz were also seriously wounded on the bandh day in Jamner. Some Hindus saved the lives of Muslims in Shashtrinagar.

In Pune there was an attempt to provoke communal riot on 31 July by throwing eggs wrapped in paper on three Ganesh temples. There erupted violence after discovery of these eggs in these temples. The police resorted to lathi charge to disperse the crowd. The security was tightened and three companies of state reserve police force was brought and 4 companies of strike force was also put in charge. These eggs were thrown near Ganesh temples in the darkness of night. As soon as this news spread people collected and began raising slogans. They divided themselves in three groups and forced people to close their shops. One group consisting of 400 persons proceeded towards a mosque despite the police attempt to dissuade them. They began stoning the Muslims coming out of mosque after prayer and Muslims also began throwing stones. Police resorted to cane charge and dispersed the crowd. The police said that Muslims showed lot of patience and this helped. However, the BJP convenor Khardekar gave call for bandh and this increased the tension. I is suspected that a Hindu Mahasabha ember is responsible for throwing the eggs.

On 21 September there erupted communal violence in Veejapur taluka of Aurangabad in Maharashtra on the occasion of Ganesh chaturthi. There was incident of stone throwing on the procession. The mob then set fire to 34 shops, 3 auto rickshaws, 4 motor cycles and one tempo were burnt. Police used tear gas and fired two rounds to disperse the mob. 21 persons were arrested. Six persons were injured. According to the police properties worth 50 thousand were destroyed.

Sholapur in Maharashtra erupted on 11th October in which about 9 persons were killed in all. The riots erupted when some Muslim organisation led by Muslim Vikas Parishad, relatively unknown organisation founded by a former journalist turned leader gave a call for observing bandh as Christian Baptist priest Jerry Falwell in America had called the Prophet of Islam as ëterroristí. The Muslim youth belonging to this organisation tried to force some Hindus to close their shops. The protesters went in procession after prayers on Friday afternoon and threw stones on a Navratri Pandal. Hindus reciprocated and riots broke out. More than 115 persons were injured and police arrested over 500 persons. Subsequently Muslims suffered heavy damages and large number of shops belonging to them were burnt down. Of all the dead five died in police firing and rest in cases of stabbings. The communal incidents went on for two days.

The Muslims suffered heavy damages in these riots. The Muslim leaders alleged that it was an attempt to ruin Muslims economically in Sholapur. A large number of Muslim shops in different areas were looted and then burnt down. They have lost more than 10 crores worth goods and properties.

Yet another communal incident took place in Badlapur in Thane district when some Hindu youth teased a college going Muslim girl on 20th October. There was private firing and five persons were injured. The police reached an hour later to this far-flung place and fired in the air to disperse the mob. The tension was brewing between the youth of two communities for more than a week. The mob set fire to a sawmill, a rice mill, several shops and some houses. 40 shops belonging to Muslims were set on fire, according to some sources. Over forty persons were arrested including two BJP corporators and one Muslim leader.

In Gujarat several places like Mehsana and Baroda witnessed communal frenzy again during and after recent elections in Gujarat. Most of the clashes took place during processions of victorious candidates in election.

On the last day of the year i.e. on 31st December too Gujarat witnessed rioting in Dahor. The communal disturbances started with some Muslims allegedly teasing an Adivasi girl. Both the groups Adivasis and Muslims clashed in which three persons were seriously injured. The police imposed curfew and 30 persons were arrested. Two shops were also set afire. The two groups fought with swords, lathis and other weapons.

Thus the year 2002 witnessed riots throughout India and particularly in Gujarat. As pointed out above Gujarat carnage shook the whole country and created a dubious record of brutal killing of Muslims with state complicity. This year will be remembered for this carnage for years to come.

(Centre for Study of Society and Secularism, Mumbai:- 400 094, India; E-mail:- csss@vsnl.com )

Thanks for your prompt answer, Veeresh. With the 60th anniversary recently, I have heard comments about how the whole world has benefited from the sacrifices of the Anglophone-US/UK/Anzac troops and how everyone else owes a debt of gratitude to them, which should have been repaid in Iraq.
However, since I do not live in Pakistan and the learned author is not my friendly neighbourhood hack, these were expressed views and not the news, as you pointed out.
While Vikram Batra and Hanifuddin are names I will teach my children, just as I learnt the name of Abdul Hamid, I wonder how those soldiers felt, because they were fighting for an ideal they had no experience of-democracy and freedom-does that make them mercenaries? (Again, akin to our author and his thoughts on Indian secularism and American freedom of speech, both of which are by no means perfect). Did they fight with India in mind, or King and Empire?
But if it`s not known, maybe it`s time to make it known. Maybe you could write something on that-even our author and his compatriots couldn`t really object-it was their army too.

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nb 58 . . . there was a letter in the Indian Express a few days ago bemoaning the fact that the real role of the Indian soldiers during WW-2 would never be known, hinting darkly at the glorification of soldiers from Europe/America in war movies/reports . . . if one goes through the variety of websites on war dead, one finds a large number of sub-Continental names from amongst those who died at sea around the same time . . . likewise the Africa, Arabia and Med theatres as also the Indo-China-Burma ops saw a lot of Indians.

Prof May`s book . . . ``The Forgotten Army : INA`` . . . gives some insight on why the Allies may have chosen to downplay the Indian participation. My copy got stolen and I need to find another one, but briefly, the involvement of Indian soldiers and officers as well as soldiers and officers from Ireland in taking on the Allies, was viewed as support for the Axis/Fascists.

The Military town of Dagshai (then called Daag E Shahi) in Himachal en route Shimla was where many Irish officers/soldiers were imprisoned by the British during WW-2, while the INA were scattered all over the country.

So, to get back to your question, did Indians participate in the D-Day landings? The answer I got when I visited Dunkirk from the local Indians there was a resounding YES. As cannon fodder and mine detectors, possibly, too.

Veeresh,
I was wondering if you had the answer to this. Did the Indian Army participate in the D-Day Normandy landings? Thanks

This Indian army officer didn`t hurt anyone else-he did basically talk himself up. Obviously, that`s unethical, but it`s not such a huge deal. Mr Quaraishi must think exceedingly highly of Indians that this has surprised him so much. People do it all the time. Even Mr Quarishi using his work computer to abuse Indians on chowk is a misuse of company time and funds, but since this is Pakistan, the owners of the paper would probably consider it a patriotic duty. I have already noted, though, that he isn`t really interested in the difficult questions. I can`t imagine someone of his (apparent) seniority in the Indian or US or Aussie press basically going-nyah nyah-nyah like a 7 year old kid. All he`s interested in is heaping his abuse and vitriol on people. All and sundry can apparently participate and say what they like about India, but when it comes to Pakistan, only a privileged few have the right to speak-just like the country is run, actually.
And we`re the obsessed, brainwashed ones?
I really want to know something else. Why this obsession with jis and jai ram ji kis and dhotis? It smacks really strongly of a colonised mind. The same men who would probably call a woman behaya if she was dressed in a singlet and shorts, who expect women to be dressed in traditional clothes find the dhoti funny? Mrinalini Sarabhai, when she does interviews will always point it out to a journalist if he doesn`t wear Indian clothes, and she`s not a BJP-walli.
Jai ram ji ki is a traditional salutation in MP and UP. In my hometown, it`s Ram-Ram. Namaste/namaskar has traditionally been used only by the upper classes.I don`t see what the problem is. It predates the BJP by hundreds of years. We used to have a Christian maid who would say Jai isa masih ki! Muslims used to use adaab more frequenly but have, increasingly, been told this is too secular and to use salaam aleikum instead. Talking like this sounds like the British talking about the natives 150 years ago. How do you think people should greet each other? Yes, I know g`day, maaayte sounds good but soysauce once objected to that, so I don`t know how well it might catch on.

I am finally getting it, Omar Ji . . . most places, the media asks questions and then presents the answers as reportage, opinion or analysis . . . with some media in restrictive societies, it is the other way around.

Poor Omar Qureishi. Sometimes, one does have to feel sorry for him. Now he believes that because a few indian army personnel lied and got bonuses, that this proves something amazing.

Bhai, the problem is you have lived your whole life ruled by pakistani generals. You probably think only indian or US army has problems and that pakistani army is somekind of great miracle.

If you had a little experience or idea of how democractic societies work, you would not be surprised. Unlike your press reporting, indian press reporting is pretty aggressive and focussed on facts. They are quite happy to have pulled off this trick. No doubt some nice bonuses and promotions will take place.

Similarly, when your great general sahib came to Agra and gave us bhashan on how freedom struggle and murder of indians is the same thing, our press was happy to broadcast it everywhere. I guess you thought this was also some kind of strange and weak response. Instead it made even ``liberal`` indians realize that they were dealing with the real thing

---

a seriously whacko dictator.

But then how can one describe a sunset to a person who has never seen sunlight?