Censoring Michael Moore

veeresh, 1

``are copies of Who Killed Daniel Pearl available in Karachi?``

Probably not. But that`s not the point. You ought to read the review of this book in the New York Review of Books (the reviewer, an Englishman who lives in Delhi--forgetting his name-- was scathing and ripped the book apart for its assumptions, inconsistency, and strong bias. The book is a piece of fiction based on hatred for Pakistan. Two issues afetr the review appeared in NYRB, Mr. BHL, the author of the book, took issues with the critic for being so harsh on his book. And once again, the critic ripped BHL apart based on what BHL had to say. In other words, this book is dismissed as total crap by those who matter.

re: Omar R. Quraishi

What ever Disney or Miramax might be trying to do will not work, because there are many forms and means of gaining access to media and media outlets in the United States and the message can be delayed, but it will never be stopped. If the Pentagon Papers could make it to the New York Times, this movie will also make it to the theaters. The political intention is not to ban the movie, but postpone it till after the November elections and in any case, the movie will be out on DVDs in about six months and it is, and will be, already playing in Europe. There is no possible way from denying the people the right to see this movie and in the United States, it is the people who decide what to watch or not to watch and not the governemnts. The United States, and the reason why I love it so much, is a market place for ideas and you have to compete and fight for your ideas. Moore is fighting for his ideas and the Disney, Miramax and the government are fighting for their ideas and this is just a small part of a political debate within a larger political debate.

Yes, we disagree on this issue. I do not consider this censorship.

Ciao

I genuinely think talk about Pakistan is probably irrelevant here, except to note that Pakistanis wouldn`t have very much of an idea about freedom of speech. However, I don`t doubt that you make up in theory what you do not know in practicals.
If there was a video of Bajrang Dal torching the Staineses, (talking about India) don`t worry, Omar, it would have been on cable tv the next day, giving us all nightmares. Pakistanis are much more interested in this extremely unfortunate event than Mr Staine`s fellow Aussies, who ask what he was doing converting people in India in the first place-leave the ``primitive`` peoples of the world untouched and all that.You probably don`t realise, but we have a hyperactive, hypervigilant, largely Fabian/Nehruvian press. Also, poor Pearl wsn`t trying to convert anyone, he wasn`t badmouthing Islam, he just stuck his Jewish nose in too many places.
Now, I do think this is a bit of an publicity stunt, but never mind, it`s America. Michael Moore doesn`t always tell the truth, but neither do other people. At least he`s entertaining while he does it.
I don`t agree that anyone who disagrees with Moore is right-wing. I really enjoyed Bowling for Columbine and I agree with what he said there. Because I`m against the Iraq adventure, I`ll probably agree with the new one too.

dear veeresh sahib -- thanks very much for volunteering but i am not sure if i need anyone to show me around delhi -- thanks very much tho :) -- veeresh sahib u sounded like a stalker in that by the way , no offence....

to add ferozk -- you seem not to have read in the article that miramax was already on board as a distributor -- miramax invested in the film but later its parent company disney decided to have a change of mind -- apparently because it did not want to be seen as partisan -- as far as your remark about freedom of expression being dearly defended in US and not elsewhere well i would disagree feroz sahib, you obviously have a very different way of looking at things in America vis-a-vis its media -- i hope we can be civil in our disagreements this time :)

ssdhillon, you said: ``I am fine with the author criticizing the US. However I am not sure if the author is really concerned about censorship. To me it looks like he is another Pakistani(Islamic) writer who will use each and every available stick to beat the US.``
i said: ``ssdhillon, are you for real dude`` -- are you assuming that being pakistani means being islamic -- so being indian then means being hindu? dhillon sahib sahee hai yeh baat ji?

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#11 by omar_r_quraishi on June 6, 2004 11:04pm PT

It would be a bit difficult to talk about the press in Pakistan in an article that
seeks to discuss the Michael Moore documentary controversy, don’t you think
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That is exactly my point. When was the last time you wrote an article telling the truth about your own country.You have written a whole article about this controversy which to
me is a case of a publicly traded company trying to avoid a backlash from Bush supporters. There are much worse things that happen in Pakistan everyday. Like I said...you just want to bad mouth the US.


could you perchance get me a copy of the torching of graham staines and his sons --
i believe the bajrang dal made a copy and i believe it is available in delhi --
i would be obliged if you could mail me a copy
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What will the book tell you? The Indian press has already reported that Staines was killed
by Bajrang Dal/RSS guys. The Indian press did not try to cover up anything. It does not look like there was any pressure for a cover-up either. That is why there are no bestsellers written about that subject. The Pearl murder on the other hand is a complete cover up. Sheikh Omar was trained by the Pakistani establishment. He killed Daniel Pearl when Pearl was investigation a link between the establishment and Al-Qaida. Then the establishment dropped Omar like a hot potato. This is the same guy that the Pakistan Government orchestrated a plane highjacking for.

You attempt to raise the Staines issue just shows how little you
understand this censorship argument. The Indian press is not trying to cover
anything up. They openly said that the Bajrang Dal thugs torched Staines and
his sons. On the other hand the Pakistani press has never tried to find out the truth about
Danny Pearl. Is it not censorship that prevents the press from saying that the whole issue
Stinks.....the establishment is blaming Omar for Pearl`s murder after
protecting him for years for similar crimes in India.

Omar R. Quraishi commenting on Michael Moore !! Hah, ha ! What a joke ! What a hoot !! I havent laughed so much since I heard Hamid Gul praise Arundhati Roy !

A person belonging to a sectarian military-ruled nation gives a bhashan on human rights and historical truths to democratic nations! Truly, there must be something really twisted in the pakistani educational system which allows this kind of hypocritical drivel to be written in good conscience. In other words, people are somehow trained to be hypocritical at an early age and by the time they are adults, they are ready to write essays on shortcomings of OTHER nations. But never their own !!!


Omar R. Quraishi, you belong to a nation with the most horrible sectarian laws on the books. Do you plan to ever address them? DO you have the guts to stand up say anything in public about them? Is there a single *published* article by you on discrimination against ahmedis, hudood ordinance, jehadi violence by LeT/JeM against indian civilians?

We are waiting for your answer. Please answer YES or NO to my question above. And then stand fully exposed for the self-serving hypocrite you and your type are.

omar_r_quraishi
Look at the board ``India votes and how`` and see what a variety of issues have been discussed there.If you want to stick the topic, you can choose to ignore the posts regarding the freedom of speech in Pakistan, but if it does pinch you somewhere you can choose to have a constructive discussion here on this board without caring that the people making remarks about it are Indians.

I don`t think that this documentary will make even a littlest dent in the conscience of american people.

Omar Sahib . . . I have stopped being snide to you, honest. I was referring to the Bernard Levy book of the title mentioned, which I reviewed on chowk a while ago.

Incidentally, I have volunteered to be your local protocol person during your visit here on the CSE conference . . . this is an organisation dear to my heart for over a decade now.

terranova -- hmm i wonder exactly the same sometimes -- but i think its quite a chowk thing btw --

ferozk: ``My understanding is that issue was one of distribution rights and not freedom of expression`` -- obviously your and my understanding of the issue is different -- there are many other ways to censor things other than an outright ban --

hp -- the movie had to have been released to be eligible for competition at cannes -- distributors in europe have taken its rights - u call michael moore leftwing -- i suppose you identify yourself as rightwing, and by default a natural opponent of whatever he (Mr Moore) does

arjun m: ``Why isn`t freedom of speech in the author`s country(or the lack thereof) relevant?`` -- becoz i believe the article is about michael moore not about the media in pakistan -- when there is an article on the latter plz feel free to engage in a lively discussion

ssdhillon -- it would be a bit difficult to talk about the press in pakistan in an article that seeks to discuss the michael moore documentary controversy, dont you think -- for the press in pakistan and how the govt tries to manipulate and influence it there are other articles on the subject but surely the headline for this one would have told you that this isnt it --


veeresh sahib -- you are much more tolerable, if you leave out your snide remarks that is :) -- but to answer your question, not to my knowledge but given your extensive contacts in pakistan i suppose u already have a copy -- and by the way, since we are on a somewhat related topic could you perchance get me a copy of the torching of graham staines and his sons -- i believe the bajrang dal made a copy and i believe it is available in delhi -- i would be obliged if you could mail me a copy

re: Omar R. Quraishi

My understanding is that issue was one of distribution rights and not freedom of expression.

The movie was not banned or censored in the United States. It was simply lacking a distributor and instead of opening to a large audience, it will open to a smaller one. Freedom of expression is a reality much cherished in the United States and dearly defended and in Pakistan, it is a hollow punchline to a meaningless coffee table party joke. Freedom of expression means the ability to tolerate what is being said more than a right to say something and we all know, Pakistan is not tolerant of what is said within its borders.

Secondly, the Pakistanis and the Islamic world will ape the conclusions of the movie because it reflects their own prejudices about the United States. The ill treatment of Iraqi PoWs is nothing new; American troops commited such acts in Vietnam, Korea and in the Second World War and in the First World War and in Latin America and in the Philippines. The only difference is that those wars did not have access to internet and digital cameras or we would seen the similar pictures from those conlicts too.

War dehumanizes us all and we degenerate into savages. There is no morality in war and there is no nation on this planet, with a clean conscience. We all have blood on our hands.

re: HP

I hope that it is released before the elections! ;)

Ciao

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