My Pakistan Diary: Roots! A Spiritual Journey

re:#35 by Dodo
You forgot to mention the rape and plunder of Ghaznis, Nadir Shah (who was a Persian i think), Timurlane. I am told that Timur the lame had improvised plunder into an artform. In order to terrorise the population of Delhi, he beheaded every citizen who resisted him (this i learnt from the History Channel in USA).
Well,
There area a lot of good things that happened by the interactions but do not forget that Ghazni, after he got tired of the loot and rape, carried away a lot of artisans from India to rebuild his city in Arabia.
Sridhar

re: This article
This and similar articles by some other chowkies compel one to pose the following questions:
1. Was it a good idea to partition India and uproot ancient cultures?
Here, one needs to differentiate culture from religion. Pak`s efforts to establish a religion based culture has failed. Pakis today are still Punjabees, Pakhtuns, Baluchs, Sindhis etc. There is nothing like an Islamist Paki. So, the question naturally arises: what was the point of partitioning a country only to uproot ancient cultures and displace people who. as per the travelouge of Dost Mitterji and others, had always lived in peace? This is a grim reminder that such things should never be repeated: not in Kashmir, not anywhere.

2. Should religion be a basis of national identity? Pak`s utter failure in establishing a religious identity for itself should be a warning to all. Only culture can be a basis of identity. Of course a lot of other things go into play here but cultural bonds are very strong. In the frenzy of religious hatred that followed partition, this bond was forgotten quickly as the 2 sides indulged in mayheim. This is a reminder that religion should be limited to personal use and when it spills into politics, it can be disastrous. BJP`s rise to power and Moditva are reminders that India has not seen the last of this madness.
Sridhar

..... to quote ahmedmadani, ``this is all lufangebaazi``....

....... if you go by what people are saying on the chowk, love is in the air and peace has broken out between the miserable people of india and pakistan ............everyone is gushing about how they were treated so nicely when they went back searching for their roots (whatever the heck it means) and exchanging little tit-bits about punjabi culture ( which is about as interesting as the phatiaan you see on the mud walls of punjabi villages).............. it is all nonsense - in other words, sheer lufangebaazi by sentimental old men about to get their skulls cracked in a big barbecue pit !......................

.............. i just got back from pakistan and didn`t see any signs of this sordid love affair ......... i am glad to report that most pakis, including my little ba-pass sister, still hate the horrible hindoos with a passion that is rivalled only by their hatred for heeng laced daal...................... even cricket crazed youngsters, as much as they him, would rather see tendulkar impaled on the stumps for being a kala kafir .................. however, there might be some reprieve for the poor hindoos from across the border ............ it seems a lot of pakis are finding new objects for their hatred - shias ............. of course, my mamoon still blames the afghans for everthing from stolen laundry to global warming ...........................

.............. i am glad dost-mittar ji had a pleasent trip and nobody tried to behead him on prime time tv, but let`s stop pretending that the pakis and hindoos are going to start behaving like civilized (white) people any time in the near future ..............

sadna#65:
If RAW had talented people of your calibre, it wont be in such a mess now.:)

dullabhatti#66:
I thought jats had succeeded in getting themselves classified as OBCs during the Devi Lal/Charan Singh era. I was surprised to learn that Rajputs have been classified as OBCs in Gujarat. It`s a circus out there. I wondered at one time if I could spell my middle name, Kumar as `Kumhar` and get classifed as SC!

nadeemkr#73
I will look forward to it.

Urstruly:
...and it`s okay not to comprehend sometimes :)

kaurasach:

Are there really panjabi hindus who look for their roots in ganga-jamuna? Although they do hold these rivers as sacred, I have met only one panjabi who traced his roots outside panjab, who is coincidentally a jat sikh. He is a powar who claims that his family came from Maharashtra several generations ago.

It is generally the other way round; namely, a large number of hindi-speakers settled in cities like Lukhnow, Kanpur, Allahbad, etc. for several generations claim to have their origins in Panjab. Most of the characters in Vikram Seth`s `A Suitable Boy` belong to this group.

But while they do not trace their roots in Ganga-Jamuna, they do take their ashes for immersion to Hardwar in Ganga. And this was true of Sikhs as well until 2-3 generations ago. The ashes of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and of all sikh gurus were most likely immersed in Ganga as well. Now, of course, the sikhs are enjoined to immerse their ashes into the nearest river.

And while there (Ganga) most people are also helped in tracing their roots, the genealogical trees. The pandas of Haridwar have kept meticulous records of people`s ancestors going back several generations.

satyamvada#62:
This is an irksome debate. What difference does it make whether Ranjit Singh gave gold umbrella or not? Why do hindus have this fixation of calling others hindus who do not wish to be considered as such? Regardless of their history, the fact remains that once a hindu became a sikh, he never called himself hindu again. And they certainly do not want to be called as such in this day and age. And hindus should respect that choice. It is as simple as that!

Dost Mitter

I have no clue as to what you were trying to say in the post addressed to me. But that`s alright. It is ok to be speechless sometimes.

nazarhayatkhan,

Few corrections:

``Some say that Karbala event was based on this rivalry - and the Persians chose to remain different with their own sect`` Persians lost to Arabs in the battle of Qadisiya in 637 AD. The Arabs had recently converted to Islam whereas Sassanians were Zoroastrians. After the victory, Arabs controlled the Persian Empire and imitated many customs of their monarchy and tactics of administration. Persians didn`t convert en-bloc to Islam; the conversion was slow and mainly happened in cities. The Zoroastrians continued to live in the Arab Muslim Empire as per Omar`s law of `Dhimma`.

Over a period of centuries, the conversion was complete and most of the Iranians had converted to Sunni Islam (Yes, Sunni Islam). Contrary to popular belief, Persians/Iranians didn`t play any role in Karbala which was an internecine feud of the fledgling Arab Muslim state.

As for Persians promoting Shia Islam to differentiate themselves from Arab Muslims, this is also baseless. Shia Islam remained an Arab sect and all their Imams were Arab (descendants of the Prophet`s family). During the Safavid dynasty of Iran, they forced/inspired (depending on what you like) the Iranians to convert to Shia Islam and declared it a state religion.

An interesting anecdote - Balochi tribes have a historical antagonism to Persians. These tribes were Shia when they initially converted to Islam. When Persians became Shia, they decided to become Sunni.

``Islam re-entered Pakistan, courtesy Saudi Arabia, in its radical form.`` Unfortunately, I don`t agree to this allegation. Indian Islam has a vibrant history. The Sufi traditions owe a lot to Indian sub-continent. But, the process of radical strain gaining strength was not an import, it was indigenous to India. Shah Waliullah and other were propagating Jihad in 18th century, around the same time when ibn-Wahhab gained prominence in Arabia. I agree that modern means of communication may have given a boost to interactions between radicals from different geographies, but radicalization began long back.

mubakr#43
If I remember correctly, my sister also said that the Kussak fort is visible from the train from Malikwal.

Mantolives#46

Strangely, even Iqbal`s tarana-e-hind has more emotional values for Indians than their national anthem. It is frequently suggested that jana-gana-mana was actually composed by Tagore to honour the British emperor on the occasion of his famour Dilli Durbar of 1911.

pmishra2:
I don`t know if one can blame islam for all of the problems. Female foeticide is more prevalent among the hindus/sikhs than among muslim panjabis. And it is perhaps as, if not more common, among the urban elite in Delhi than in the villages.

Dost-Mittar:

I have a write up on Kusak somewhere in my computer. Once I find it, I will ask for your e-mail to send it to you.

na.

Rahulmal # 42 & 44

Thanks for the information.

The Persians have a very rich history and culture as compared to the desert Arabs of Arabia - and they are justifiably proud of it. There has been an ancient rivalry between two. Some say that Karbala event was based on this rivalry - and the Persians chose to remain different with their own sect.

The British used the Saudi Beduine to break up the Ottomans. Next time the Americans used the Saudis (and Pakistanis) to drive Soviets out of Afghanistan. Islam re-entered Pakistan, courtesy Saudi Arabia, in its radical form. The earlier version through the saints was the softer & tolerant version.

In short, the 1980s Soviet Invasion brought the most uncouth part of the Arabs (desert beduines) into limelight, giving them influence & say - thanks also to oil - in the last century.

We are all still suffering the consequences.

hey guys, who pays more? ISI or RAW? I am thinking about being a double agent..get the good pay that RAW pays and enjoy the perks of ISI.

Once a Khalistani leader was asked, Khalistan will be land locked country, no ports no sea...how are you going to trade? How is economy going to survive. He quickly answered...that part is already figured out don`t worry about it...We have lot of plains, greenery and water...we will grow Cows and Pigs on the farms....Halaal the cows and ship them Westwards...Jhatka the pigs and ship them Eastwards.....keep the chicken and fine goat for ourselves...baaki allah allah khairsullah.

sadna. . .

sachchi se. . if i may say so with the utmost respect. . .you are one of the finest anti-pakistan RAW agents around chowk.

; )

(and please DO take note of the wink)

Romair/66 . . . sirji, I do not claim to know everyhting about a people after meeting them for a few minutes or a day or more or a lifetime, I can not even claim to know my own wife and/or children, do you understand or know everything about yours?

But . . . I went to Pakistan and I did not write one of those typical ``we went to India/Pakistan and were given great protocol and had a lot of booze and sang/danced and then made love to a blue poodle and so Pakistan/India are great places . . .`` kind of Khan Market/Blue Area articles.

I observed some other stuff and I wrote it down as I saw it, as one who hailed from that part of the world, so there are things I learnt/heard on the knees of my forefathers.

+++

On India origin Punjabi Sikh and Punjabi Hindu/Muslim/Christian differentiations in India/elsewhere, a bit difficult, no doubt.

If you wear a designer dhoti/chadra, then please do remember to wear bermuda shorts below them. Advice from one who has seen these things unravel. Actually, ``Pathan Suits`` appear to do better. There are also the affected high on embroidery/zaree work ``Bund galas``. Just curious - how many men wore ``Western suits``?

If you really want to go A-Class on dhotis, then head for a South Indian temple, and check out the stuff there. Ask for the Andhra stuff. White is not white . . . and done best bare-chested.

+++

And once again, Romair, your account proves that it is the Punjabis who got so neatly shafted in the name of religion, while everybody else seems to carry on regardless.

I am really really glad to hear that you were The VIP at the function. As an Indian who has been received the same way by Pakistanis, I know what you mean.

Kaurasach:

If you want to talk about opinions then of course you can say anything you want.

Tamilians and Kannadigas hold the Kaveri dear. The Andhraites rever the river
Krishna and so forth. Similiarly the Punjabis are fond of the Chenab...nothing
special there.

I am not sure if you have heard of this shloka:
Gangecha Yamunechaiva Godavari Saraswati
Narmada, Sindhu, Kaveri jalesmin sannidhim kuru

All these rivers are invoked in the water that is used in the Kalash before doing
a puja.

About Roots:
It seems that the only people looking for roots in India are those displaced during the
partition. Havent read/heard/known about anyone else looking for roots.

Ally yaar, most of the Gujjars in East Punjab are landless and hence classified as backward class by the govt under some law under which they get some reservations in employment and some other govt benefits. 1/3 of East Punjab is in Backward class...other 1/3 is Scheduled Caste which is lower than the Backward class....rest of them are Baahmans and Jatts...go figure that out...there were demands by some jatt groups few years back to be included in backward classes list also....the whole idea of this class system is another Caste system...if you are Brahmin, even if your father sells `sakanjwiN`` in the chowk, you are higher caste...but if your father was a chamaar and an IAS officer and you are MD, your children are still scheduled castes.

This reservation system is producing such nakhidd doctors that it is very common now to do some research and find out if the doctor you are going for your ilaz does not belong to reservation class.

Dost-mittar/dullabhatti/Vereersh #various: Thanks for the info. Do keep in mind that I don`t have Vereesh`s skills of observing people for a few hours and imediately knowing everything about them.....:-). So some of my observations will be off-target.......

- I am not sure if it was a dhoti or a chaadra. I suppose the later, though I don`t really know what that is. But it did look different from a traditional dhoti. But whatever it was, it looked good. Kind of like Pierre Cardin meets the pind. Only a minority of the guests were wearing them. Most were in the tradition kurta pajama/shalwar, as in Pakistan. I was seriously thinking of buying a few to wear at Pakistani functions. A black and gold silk designer dhoti would be a hit in Pakistan. It is sad to hear that they are actually not in fashion in India, either......

- The reason I keep mentioning Sikhs, vis-a-vis Punjab, is that I am still a bit confused about how to pick out the non-Sikh Indian Punjabis. With Sikhs from any area, it seems to be nearly 100% gaurantee that they speak Punjabi. But with non-Sikhs, it can be a bit difficult to figure out, who is who. Met people from Delhi, and they speak Urdu/Hindi, and no Punjabi. Others from the same place, speak fluent Punjabi, etc. You discuss Daler Mehndi with one, and he starts talking about Ghalib. You mention Ghalib to the other, and he starts singing Sukhbir`s songs. So quite difficult to pick out the Punjabi speaking non-Sikhs from a crowd. But easy to pick out the Sikhs...

- Pakistani Punjabi music is definitely more folk, with less bhangra. Indian Punjabi music, now, seems to be along the lines of RDB (Rythm, Dhol and Base, for those who are out of touch). A lot of English verses mixed in.....and more difficult hardcore Punjabi....a lot of which I couldn`t understand.....The over-40 Indians seem to be missing the old folk stuff. The under-40 seemed to enjoy the new techo-Punjabi bhangra music......

- Drinks were another difference, of course. Flowing freely, like in any North American function.....

Other than that, not much difference. Surprisingly similar ceremonies, songs and dances. In fact, nearly identical. Including stories of arranged marraiges, told to me, from those who were already married, and how couples were introduced to each other, etc......Also, everyone was giglging at the gora guests as they clapped along merrily on Kala Shah Kaala, much like they giggle at Pakistani functions....

The most similar group of Pakistani and Indians are Punjabi Indian and Pakistani women. Very difficult to tell apart....

P.S. I think we were the only Pakistanis at the party, so we received quite the VIP treatment, and were the center of attraction. Specially after we started singing all the Punjabi songs.

Everything was quite impressive. Except for the bhangra skills of the Sikh guys. Quite a disappointment. One would think, it would come naturally. It was like a Black guy not knowing how to moonwalk. I didn`t want to jump onto the dance floor and upstage the hosts. But next time, I may not be able to control myself..........