Adnan Sattar June 12, 2004
#3 Posted by vertex on June 13, 2004 10:12:29 pm
Tired and old topic. Hijab is a way of coping with modernity. It is part identity when outside ones are being foisted on you, and it is part expression of community (very frightening to those who are stalwart individualists). Still to others, it`s simply a requirement. To others, it`s evil in cloth form.
There is a sickness in the Muslim world, and that`s to discuss ad nausea topics that are deemed relevant to us by others. And let there be no doubt about this - this particular `issue` is not one raised from within. But discuss it we will. I happen to be just such a fool.
If western fashion was all about modesty, would we even be having this discussion? No. Would we be having a similar discussion? Hell yes, whatever the complaint de jour is...we`ll be jumping on it with a jerk knee..
Are there ``real`` gender issues to tackle? Yes. Is this one of them? Nope.
Ayesha,
``If a French woman in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan or any other conservative country went out in a mini-skirt would we condone her behaviour as free thinking or would we be disappointed in her lack of consideration of societal norms``
Those countries don`t proclaim to accommodate such things. Modern France has no active tradition of dress - dress as you like, and they have no problems. Except for the Hijab, that is. This is about curbing expressions of religious identity that most francoists find scary. Ultimately, it is France`s right to ban the Hijab...but you can`t have it both ways. France then joins the ranks of Saudi, Afghan, etc. in forcing a mode of dress.
Second, the idea of a westerner accommodating conservative Muslim dress codes is laughable. I would wager most, except those who are generally foreign-culture friendly, would be horrified to wear a burkha or even Hijab, and wouldn`t do so without extreme reservations or unless it is absolutely mandatory. Typically, they wear whatever the male dress is - notably just as concealing, but this is a fact that I suppose we can overlook. Male dress...gotta love it...so much for sisterhood. This idea that they would don conservative dress and say ``when in rome`` is quite frankly not characteristic. Simply read or watch the correspondence from any female westerner visiting Muslim countries, and you will catch my drift. I can not think of an exception...
``Similarly, a Muslim living in the West should adapt his/her religion such that it does not raise eyebrows when they venture out. To do otherwise is being inconsiderate and rigid and perhaps people who feel so singlemindedly should make their way to some far away village where everyone else thinks the same as them. ``
Muslims in the west must take ownership of their citizenship, and make their mode of dress irrelevant by making a name for themselves within their communities. People exist in a natural state of ignorance, and ghettoizing (a ``real`` problem with the community) only reinforces this ignorance towards us. People will naturally be inconsiderate towards us otherwise, either out of their ignorance or simply because they deem it fit and affordable not to tolerate us as we are. Nothing comes for free, and if we insist on rigidly following a path, we must understand that their are tolls to be paid on this road we travel.
The idea that we have to be ``considerate`` in how we dress to those who walk around half naked this time of year is a bit hard to swallow. I can tolerate my neighbor (great guy, btw) who wears metal-tipped boots, has sharp green hair that`s shaved at the sides, wears black lipstick, and has tongue + nipple piercing (which he insists on showing). Now, if *this* is considered acceptable....then guess what...they can sure as hell accept a floral scarf around the head.
This ``accommodate local custom`` business meant something in the `50`s. It doesn`t mean squat now days. Blame those damn hippies...
Of course, it`s not about the clothing, it`s about what it represents. What does it represent? Let`s follow your own advice of ``letting women speak for themselves``. However, I`d go a step further and say it`s not a generic ``women`` thing...no such group with a common voice or set of ideas. The only opinion that maters are those women who actually wear the thing...
#2 Posted by AyeshaIjazKhan on June 13, 2004 8:08:01 pm
It is baffling how a man can feel so confident in assuming he knows exactly how it feels to wear the hijab or why women decide to take it on. Mr. Adnan Sattar has gone to great lengths to persuade us that the hijab is in fact not subjugating or repressive but liberating and a means of asserting identity.
It is precisely this attitude of not letting women speak for themselves that results in women from such backgrounds to take on the hijab so that they may gain a voice. This by no means implies that the hijab has suddenly miraculous qualities which enable those underprivileged women from backward environments to become assertive and thus speak up. Sadly, it only means that without it they are constantly suspect creatures, and with it passably second-rate.
Lastly, I would like to ask the proponents of hijab in France the following: how liberal are they in their ``live and let live`` policies? If a French woman in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan or any other conservative country went out in a mini-skirt would we condone her behaviour as free thinking or would we be disappointed in her lack of consideration of societal norms? Similarly, a Muslim living in the West should adapt his/her religion such that it does not raise eyebrows when they venture out. To do otherwise is being inconsiderate and rigid and perhaps people who feel so singlemindedly should make their way to some far away village where everyone else thinks the same as them.
It is precisely this attitude of not letting women speak for themselves that results in women from such backgrounds to take on the hijab so that they may gain a voice. This by no means implies that the hijab has suddenly miraculous qualities which enable those underprivileged women from backward environments to become assertive and thus speak up. Sadly, it only means that without it they are constantly suspect creatures, and with it passably second-rate.
Lastly, I would like to ask the proponents of hijab in France the following: how liberal are they in their ``live and let live`` policies? If a French woman in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan or any other conservative country went out in a mini-skirt would we condone her behaviour as free thinking or would we be disappointed in her lack of consideration of societal norms? Similarly, a Muslim living in the West should adapt his/her religion such that it does not raise eyebrows when they venture out. To do otherwise is being inconsiderate and rigid and perhaps people who feel so singlemindedly should make their way to some far away village where everyone else thinks the same as them.
#1 Posted by nikki7777 on June 13, 2004 12:57:23 pm
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