Careless Consciences

re:this article by Farzanabibi
Thomas Friedman in this latest article compares muslim frustration to the humiliation that Germans felt following Treaty of Versailles after first world war. Latter produced the Third Reich. Collective muslim frustration in its inability to take control of its life is producing Talibanism and suicide bombers. Of course, the teachings of jehad in Qoran come in handy.
Farzana bibi may find Thomas Friedman`s columns in NYTimes instructive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/17/opinion/17FRIE.html

Excerpts:
(While Islamist terrorists in Iraq and Saudi Arabia are using cellphone technology and cars to create bombs, China and India are making themselves the world`s new-car manufacturing centers and are inventing new profit-making uses for Internet-enabled cellphones — none of which involve blowing anything or anyone up.)

(An Arab journalist friend living in London told me that there is today — sadly — an all too pervasive sense in too many quarters of the Arab world of a once-great civilization having been left behind, not unlike Weimar Germany. Because Germany was already a modern state, it created a massive military response to its humiliation: the Third Reich. ``The Arabs can`t,`` he said. ``So they create bin Ladenism instead, which can`t build a state, only demolish one.)

Bibi seems to find fault only in others and come up with non-sensical issues. This time, it is about ``inner voice``. This moronic woman had the balls (metaphorically speaking!) to take on the Mahatma. Now a days, every Indian who can write a few words on the internet thinks he/she has arrived. My Innervoice tells me that this woman needs a break from journalism.
Why does not Farzana bibi write about the increasing fundamentalism among Indian Muslims (IMs)? I used to be proud that IMs are not part of this ``global jehad`` and used to quote the absence of IMs in Guantanama Bay to make my case. All this seems to be changing. Increasingly, IMs are being lured into jehad. Only IMs have to blame for this.

http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=337432

(Ishrat was one of four suspected Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists shot in the encounter on Tuesday.

Even as Ishrat’s family in Hashmat Park, Mumbra, was interrogated by the police last night, her mother was struggling to come to terms with the picture painted by the authorities about her daughter.)
Farzana bibi epitomises the problem facing the muslims the world over. They know there is a problem but they do not want to talk about it and blame others for the mess! In the last several years of writing on Chowk, this woman has not yet produced one article about her own community.
However, i did see a silver lining. Shabnam Ali, an IM (from Kashmir?) wrote this piece in the Outlook:
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=337202
(I now believe that just as the ordinary people spoke out against Gujarat, because the dastardly deeds were done in their name, it is high-time that we, the ordinary people of J&K, spoke up. In unison. We must speak out, shout, and scream till our voices get hoarse.I saw how almost routinely, for more than two years now, almost on a daily basis, newspapers, TV channels, magazines, have had an unrelenting profusion of Hindu names and faces lamenting what happened to the innocent Muslims of Gujarat.The situation with J&K is undoubtedly not completely analogous, but I feel almost compelledto demand that we, the common people of the valley, have to let our voices be heard, read and registered, that don`t want any bloodshed, that we do not want any killings of anybody in our name.)

When was the last time Farzana bibi spoke out against atrocities by jehadis in the Kashmir valley? She does not miss a chance to criticise Gujarat carnage but as an IM, does her ``Inner voice`` tell her to be critical of atrocities perpetrated by jehadists in the name of her community?

``How I wish people wouldn’t let sleeping consciences lie through their teeth. Mr. Vajpayee still owes an apology to the nation. Sonia Gandhi needs to understand when to lay off. Manmohan Singh must get it in his head that he is in charge.``
And, Farzana bibi, if she has an Inner Voice, must know by now that she stinks as a writer and should give her pen some rest.
Sridhar

Nikki7777:
[this got posted on the wrong board]
Dear Nikki7777:
I did not want to get into this controversy. Right away, I would grant you that we panjabis are a very emotional people and embrace each other as easily as we cut throats. We are also somewhat of `daggas` (mules) who let other exploit our emotions and lit the fires which make us burn while they enjoy the spectacle. However, others are not blameless. Let me remind you that:
- the riots in India started in Bengal`s Calcutta and were the result of the call of a direct action by a gujerati;
-the partition was the result primarily of the three gujeratis - Gandhi, Jinnah and Patel - and an allahabadi Nehru not being able to work out a reasonable compromise between them;
- a south indian, Rajaji, was the first to agree to the partition proposal;
-the decision to divide panjab was also taken by non-panjabis;
-as stuka pointed out, the wars were not started by panjabis;
-and as far as the regional mess in india is concerned; it all started with a telgu named Romulu undertaking a suicidal fast to divide people along linguistic lines; followed by gujeratis, marathis and others; panjab was the last to be divided on that basis;
-the language fights were started by the hindiwallahs and tamilwallahs; the tamilians went to the extent of immolating themselves to avoid the implementation of the linguistic provisions of the constitution (and we thank you for that!); and
-the first secessionist movement started in the south.

Even at chowk, panjabis are by and large the least hateful posters on the Indian side. On the pakistani side, they are the overwhelming majority of the posters and so are also the majority of hateful posters.

I am sure that you can come up with some examples to prove your point as well. My point is that there is no point in indulging in the blame game. Indians can be proud that they have been able to develop a pan indian identity. You can now get idli and dosa almost everywhere in panjab and you can also find panjabi dhabas all over india including in the south. Let`s celebrate what we have accomplished instead of fighting useless battles. Thanks!

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+++

There was a beautiful and very moving post from Farzana about the minorities in Kashmir. She had asked that if ``Kashmiriyat was important to them (Sikhs and Hindus), why didn`t they stay on, or return to Kashmir?``

+++

what kind of bs is this?? do you really mean it? how can you expect to go back to a place where the majority has decided to ethenically cleanse the land off minorities, where orders are barked out of mosques for you leave or to face death?? one just hopes you were one of those who had to flee their homes and were forced to live in tents.


sir, when you read FV`s articles, and I have read every one of them, you know she is just a sophisticated jehadi. read her poem after 9/11 looking for root causes, her article on pandits, on how panun kashmir is a ``dangerous concept`` and how kashmir issue needs to be ``addressed``.

after reading all that, her vomits never go to heart.

People have no problem when Pakistanis declare that Indian Muslims consider Pakistan to be their last hope and that Indian Muslims share Pakistan`s POV on J&K. People have a problem only if an Indian says it. Why? Make up your minds which it is, please.

gujjubania makes such gratuitously rude and racist remarks because he is rude and racist, but also because he has absolutely no arguments left. The economy has not tanked yet as he predicted, meanwhile BJP has not been able to completely reconcile with defeat and define for itself its future path. So as a person who thought that BJP was indispensible , he is frustrated out of his mind.

Instead of making braindead suggestions about mass migrations, gujjubania should concentrate on thinking of how BJP can be a strong and constructive opposition, because that is what India desperately needs from BJP.

Other people here will feel less riled up if they only took the trouble to stick to the topic at hand.

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Rahul_Capri

Post#85

Quote:

`` Yes, the freedom of speech should have no exceptions. (Though there are a few in the constitution,for e.g. you are not allowed to give hateful speeches at times when religious passions are inflamed.) ``

I think, there is a verdict or statement of a US Supreme Court Justice which goes like, ``You/one cannot shout fire in a crowded cinema hall``. This was one of the cases/examples to show freedom of speech is cannot be abused or certain limitations are very much there, by one of the Chief Justices, IIRC

Above is merely to inform than anything else.

what.. madrass regiment is a fighting unit? i thought madrassis are all in EME fixing carburators! did not know.

anyways, the south-north stuff is most entertaining.

Q: why did the mallyali cross the road?
Ans: Tsimbhly

i just luv stereotypes, specially the poignant (read mean).
please everyone participate in the melee..much more fun than discussing this article.

anyways, there seems to be a reversal in migration trends. no more going to Delhi and settling in Minto Road hostels or RK puram while working for govt of india for southies. now its the panjabis flooding to south, stopping in the way in pune or nagpur for an MCA degree.

so now southies are seeing panjabis in their home turf kind of for the first time.

Dost Mittar

Post#63

Thanks for the reply.

I did say, there is/would be a follow up question. :)

Now, is there any democracy, including US where an elected President/PM/head of govt can have cabinet completely of his/her own choice/desire? Or is it being said that push, shoves, lobbies do not take place in other administratons when forming a cabinet, and those lobbies/interests are not obliged/taken care of? Well, degree may vary but overall basics are not that different.

Recall, almost similar things were said during N Rao`s tenure too.

FV Wrote:
`` I am absolutely certain that is not the answer. The Indian Muslims stayed here despite being offered some kind of Utopia. They felt and feel an allegiance; you could call it roots, you could call it confusion, you could call it a choice, but it was most certainly not opportunism. Therefore, all they expect is to be treated as equal citizens and I do feel they should be as responsible citizens as anyone else...but there are shirkers from all communities present. ``

This is nothing but unadultratred crap !. The overwhelming number of muslims
voted for the partition. That many stayed back is more a reflection of their inability
to move for various reasons.
Infact there were people like Maulana Azad (who is presented as a great Indian patriot)
and other mullahs (who are presently the MMA party in Pakistan) who did not want
Partition.
Unfortunately, in India, we are only told that many Muslims opposed partition - but
we are not told why ?
The reason was that the Mullahs felt that if a partition was made then it would be hard
for them to make India a dar-ul-islam. That is the reason why they did not want
partition - not because of any special love for India !!

But then such facts are uncomfortable. What I do find impressive about
FV is her ability to play the part of a victim and blame others.

Also look how she implies that even though Muslims voted to stay in India they
are not being treated failry. Thus putting the whole blame on others !!
There is no introspection, no thought of why there is not much importance paid
to education, no constructive thinking at all - instead blame someone else
and always be the victim.
(Note: This is exactly what most of the Arab world and Pakis also do.)

Of course, all Indians should have the same rights, responsibilities and opportunities.
One should not sit around waiting for things to be handed out on a platter. One tries
to get an education and tries to make the best out of any opportunity.
But then, we would not need the professional whiners.

oh, for heaven`s sake.
Nikki is just annoyed because punjabis get all excited about other Punjabis in Pakistan. It`s not the end of the world. Only one thing can happen from eating too many stuffed parathas, and I woul prefer not to go into that. He`s harmless.

Nikki & Kaurasach

Bravo!!!! Well done guys. Please do continue slinging mud at each other this is making BOTH of you look very good right now.

I will let you in on a secret. The more both of you engage in and argue mindlessly like you are doing now, the stupider you both look. As opposed to someone ``winning`` this one, you guys are BOTH losing ground here -- rapidly. People will start ignoring your posts out of boredom. You don`t want that to happen to you now do you?

Can I make a suggestion? I want both of you to focus on ``Paki Bashing`` :-) That is infinitely more fun I assure you. All you have to do is write two sentences and provide a link that paints the Pakis in a poor light -- fortunately for us, that is a ``target rich environment`` right now --and Omar`s hyper inflated ego will do the rest...it is so easy... then sit back, relax and watch him implode....best entertainment on the web.

Watch and learn from Arjun -- who has made this into an art form....

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