Careless Consciences

nb:

You made a comment to Omar that he was coming to my rescue. I only hope you did not say so because he is a Pakistani, for another Pakistani, Nooralain, was also taking up for me through several posts...From the tenor of Omar`s posts it was obvious he was not...he had issues with some things I said and some people who he has other issues with.

Immediate clarification:

#206, 211:

When I read the statement about getting the whole story from her family, I was surprised because I did not assume the family would come out with the truth. Please see the tenor of my post #203...I have studiously avoided commenting/taking up the Ishrat case, even when I was pointedly asked what I was planning to do about the ``helpless`` one. You may not agree with my views on many/most issues, but do not distort...or, to give the benefit of doubt, let a misunderstanding in communication get in the way of what I meant.

``I am confounded by people’s responses here. Get the whole story from Ishrat’s family? When was the last time we got the real whole story from Chhota Rajan’s family, Dawood’s family or, on another note, Telgi’s family? Or any of the goons?``

Is it not evident that I did not mention any innocent person in this group?

``People were talking about her innocence. Which people? Her neighbours, her classmates, her college principal? This is surprising. For a student who was not a front-ranker nor a participant in extra-curricular activities, how would the principal be in a position to tell? It is clear that most people are afraid of what consequences they might face from certain elements if they said anything negative, if at all they were privy to it. It is easy to make statements like, “She was quiet”, “She was obedient”. The government won’t be after you for it.``

The certain elements they feared obviously meant criminals...which is why I transposed it with the government.

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PS to whoever: I do not need to lie. I have not gone back on several things I could have in the past, but did not. So just quit firing from other people`s shoulders.

Extra-judicial killing is a crime! But how do you deter the terrorists and Jehadists who blatently talk the language of gun- how do you deter those who talk about showing no pity on those whom they consider as apostates?
And why nobody asks this question- What was Ishrat doing at the scene of encounter? Was she kidnapped or she came voluntarily with those Pakistani terrorists? how is it possible for a young girl of 19 to move around with 3 remote acquaitances in a remote city without the consent of her family members? Do you think that the family members had no clue about what she was doing? That is why I insist that it is only the members of her Family who can shed light on the `secrets` that Ishrat was holding on from the rest of the world.
Have we forgotten such satanic conspiracies at Ghatkopar or Coimbatore killed innocent muslims as well?
Why do we pre-judge such sensitive matters and shout down the damning evidences? It would be sheer foolishness if we were to turn a blind eye at all the secret fascist organizations being run by a band of psychoaths who train and motivate their members at hatred and violence towards every body they consider as apostates and heretics.
Yes, we must press for independent enquiry- but at the same time we must stop shedding tears for Pakistani terrorists who wrongly think that they have a right to avenge `our` hurt!!!

Aah...one is impressed by the lying that FV does so casually. Of course the
concept of al-takiyah helps a lot.
Promoting oneself as a defender of freedom - while supporting India`s breakup
and living of India. The mullahs will be proud of her.

#207 by arjun_m on June 22, 2004 5:30am PT

``If it`s not a communal issue then, why make it a communal issue now?

If your hears must bleed, it should be about the lack of proper recourse...not because the dead perps were muslims... ``

arjun, you are way off-mark, please focus. nowhere do i claim that hearts need bleed if the allged perps are muslim. what i queried was if the folks are disturbed by extra-judicial nature of the encouter. where did you read muslim in my post?

this is personal, as next time i see a cop car with sub-inspector sawant and havaldar bosle, i plan to give it a wide berth. what if they have wrong info and encouter me? i have seen how police act in a riot and fire in-discrimately (sometimed out of fear and their own insecurity). what surprises me is that everyone agrees that police are ill-trained, low-paid, corrupt, and official goondas and should be avoided like ebola whenever possible. however, noone seems to think that encounter as reported is a bad idea.

The exchange between FV and Arjun in #206 is a good example.

Let alone read, FV does not even seem to think when she writes the drivel
that she puts out on chowk.

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Yes, Farzana, if she belonged to a local Muslim group, she`s just a regular ``murderess` as the tabloids might call her. If she was with a Pakistani group, that becomes treason.
I don`t feel wonder and love all the time I`m in India either. Ah, memories of swimming around King`s Circle and Camac Street...but I do feel it when I land.
I didn`t realise Zafar was that much of a shrinking violet. Will give him a wide berth next time:)

HP, I`m not offended. It`s hilarious!!! I luuurve the idea of being an offending party. I don`t do nearly enough offending.

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Re. Ishrat:
I am confounded by people’s responses here. Get the whole story from Ishrat’s family? When was the last time we got the real whole story from Chhota Rajan’s family, Dawood’s family or, on another note, Telgi’s family? Or any of the goons?

People were talking about her innocence. Which people? Her neighbours, her classmates, her college principal? This is surprising. For a student who was not a front-ranker nor a participant in extra-curricular activities, how would the principal be in a position to tell? It is clear that most people are afraid of what consequences they might face from certain elements if they said anything negative, if at all they were privy to it. It is easy to make statements like, “She was quiet”, “She was obedient”. The government won’t be after you for it.

I do wonder though that if the IB was tailing her, why did they keep quiet for this long?
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nb (172/197):

Are you trying to say that only if she is suspected to be a Pakistani agent she should have been killed and not if she was merely a Muslim aligned to a local group out to get Modi?

Btw, the reason I have refrained from making any categorical judgement is precisely because of the hazy nature of her links. Her being a Muslim or non-Muslim does not count here.

[My patriotism gets questioned all the time-you have yourself indicated that those who live outside India shouldn`t really be talking, or words to that effect. But that`s fine. I know that when I get off the plane, I can`t stop myself from awkwardly, secretly, bending down and touching the soil in wonder-and love.]

I do not know where else your patriotism has been questioned, but when I speak out against NRIs, my comments are directed towards those who claim to know more about my country than I do, to care more, to understand more…and unfortunately, most of the time it is due to the M factor of my identity. They do not understand that I touch the soil everyday, and while I do not feel wonder and love all the time (there is so much keechad, the gutters are overflowing, and I have just missed stepping on fresh turd), I have internalised my feelings and feel complete in this identity.

PS: You and GB seem to have driven Zafar away :)
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#175 by omar_r_quraishi:

Ok, so you use ‘Paki’ in a self-deprecatory fashion…but it might seem a bit different from the way Blacks in the US use ‘nigger’, as you say. They may say something like, “Yo, ahm a niggah, now go tell you mahma dat…” but they are unlikely to say, “You a niggah-basher an’ I wanna beat the sheeeiiiittt out ov you…”

[and by the way fv in case u didnt notice i didnt see a single indian interactor unequivocally condemning what he said by the way... quite revealing wouldnt u say]

I did! And at times I am arrogant enough to speak not only for myself or 160 million IMs, but 1 billion Indians. Koi mai ka laal hai jo meri nazron se aankh bachaa kar nikal jaayein!

PS: I do agree that some interactors believe in such incendiary comments, some just ignore them. I would like to mention Rajsinghi who did not comment on the article but did post something to tick off GB.
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#188 by dharma:
[When 50% of the population is enslaved openly like that in muslim socities,
where is the outrage?
And not a single person replied. typical commie, bleeding heart liberal, pseudo secular,
muslim loving site! To me the freedom of 50% of the 1 billion muslims is more important
as they are not allowed to live life as they choose. Is there any greater oppression of
humanity than that? Why are liberals and human rights organizations always silent about that?]

Re. the first part of what you write, you have left out what you had ended it with in post 127, “kashmir pales in comparision. if anything they are pampered lot in India.”

Kindly explain. In what way are they pampered, socially, economically? All the things that worry you in S. Arabia could well happen here, that is if there are cars enough for women to drive.

It is fine to talk about bleeding-heart liberals in a derogatory manner and talk about being more concerned about 50% of the 1 billion Muslims the world over. I wonder why then you have a problem with a “Muslim loving site”. Who knows, you could well find people who agree with you here, may want to help etc…And just FYI, the social ills that beset women cannot be restricted merely to one community. Look in our own backyard before talking about other societies, imperfect as they are. Read the papers. The inside pages.

#200 by nb

Don`t act offended. You are the offending party.

sadna:

either india has floated into the north american time zone, or gujjubania spends sleepless nights wasting his time ranting about psec women. :)

gujjubania #194
``What argument have I lost , specifically ? And against who ? Dont waste my time...``

At last some humor. Where you begin with the misogynistic remarks is where you lose the argument and waste your time both. And has India has recently floated into the N.American time zone?

faruk,
thanks for the reply. I am more worried about the official sanction of exploitation of women than the ground reality that exists in soceity. I mean women are mistreated in all societies and the men who do so are criminals. If the laws of the land or equitable, then there is atleast hope that sooner or later when the oppression is too severe, the women can take the help of law to free themselves. But if even the law is not on their side, what hope do they have except to hope to be born as men in the next life.
If the laws are not equitable in your country, you must be considered the biggest hipocrite
to fight for rights of people in other countries. The law should not dinstinguish between
men and women and if at all it does it should be in favor of women as they are underclass
historically.

HP, no need to be so touchy about Omar, who, incidentally, if you haven`t noticed, is also capable of defending himself. I just made an observation, right or wrong, from Farzana`s post to him, which I also have every right to do. I suggested he say what he wants to without making it look like he`s sympathising with Farzana that she has to put up with all these horrible Hindoos, as someone here calls us. Farzana will no doubt put all of us in our place very shortly.