Careless Consciences

#140 by omar_r_quraishi:

[well the reason for that FV is that chowk is infested with pathological paki-haters, esp this board -- and prob since u r a muslim too and writing about such things , they cant handle it -- i hope all the pakistani interactors here, esp the ones who try and be unnecessarily accommodating of these paki bashers go through the trouble of reading all the posts on this board, esp by such wise men of chowk as nikki7777, ralphie boy, shri veeresh jee, gujjubaniam, rsridhar and co.]

Hi Omar, I think we are interacting for the first time. So, to prevent any bad blood in the future, let me clarify…

1.As far as I am concerned, there are some misguided/vile individuals around…if they happen to hate Pakistan/Pakistanis, then that is incidental to what they spout here…and I vehemently oppose them for what they say on subjects that concern me and Indian Muslims. As I had written in that post, “In this article there is not one word about Muslims, NOT ONE WORD. Yet, Indian Muslims have become the subject here.” Indian Muslims was the operative phrase and their hate for another country and its inhabitants has no business to be projected on a large chunk of their own people.

2.There are not too many Pakistani interactors of the kind you mention here…perhaps I bring out the best in them and they stay away :)

3. I would imagine you would refrain from using a term like “Paki”…it has derogatory connotations and in the West often includes Indians and Bangladeshis…

Of course, GB has the perspicuity to tell the difference…he is afraid (insecure really) of Indian Muslims but not of Pakistanis!

“Unless of course , they (IMs) have plans of co-ordinating a muslim invasion of India , killing all the kafeer and jaahil idol worhipping devotees of a million gods and goddesses , and thereby ruling over whole of the subcontinent - just like in the days of their heroes Auranzeb and Ghaznavi. Guess thats the plan.” versus

“But I still dont understand that `hate their guts` part. I prefer to remain anonymous because I`m scared of my dad finding out I waste my time hanging out on various message boards rather than doing something constructive. For you to suggest its because of some fear of muslims or (haha) a missile attack on my house from across the border is so silly !!”

He also agrees that what he does here is not constructive…

GB….what if your dad is here using a pseudonym???? Like Jay?
- - -
#144 by sadna:

[I do not like to see an Indian woman being shot dead by the Indian state. Nor do I like to see an Indian woman being made the dupe of a neighbouring state Pakistan.]

And what about Indian men? That hawker who was rounded up? That 80-year-old man?

I am amazed that while nb and sadna, with the best of intentions perhaps, are taking up the cause of Ishrat with such fervour, there is no questioning of their patriotism. I have other reasons not to comment yet, but what if I had done the same?
- - -
#145 by veeresh:

It is a fine morning in Mumbai too…though there is too much khat-khat going on because the rains have already damaged the fine fabric of secularism….er…I mean the ventilator and the walls…

[I am now the proud owner of 6 jhaaddoos, which I shall give away as presents to whoever invites me for a meal over the next few days, since luckily She Who Knows Everything is away in Budapest, teaching yoga.]

First tell me what kind of jhaaddoos? These days you get these plastic ones, washable…I really the miss the other kind. If you are passing through, bring one with you. Have just ordered piss-sah, which one shall have with pudina chutney. And in right royal Gujju style, a small chunk of ‘gud’ to bite into for diversion…
- - -
#148 by ZafarA:

[Salaam all! As usual a combination of fascinating and `fascinating` discussion in response to Farzanaben`s article. At this moment inner voices (vices?) should be having their say in Mumbai`s BJP Meet - will be interesting to see what the outcome of all that is. Any fortune tellers around?]

Uff, Hamidm will be so ghussa with you for saying things like ‘salaam’, ‘inshallah’…you may say ‘achtung baby’ though…fortune tellers? It is already written on the wall…Vajpayee (Vishwamitra) was doing penance and then Menka (VHP etc) came along and did bhang of his tapasya and now he is okey-dokey with calling all misdemeanours a “thing of the past”.

{[Since you mentioned Zafar, he and I do not agree on all issues]
Farzanaben, that is NOT true!}

Hai rabba, main sadkein jaavaan! You agree that Delhi is a figment of someone’s imagination? That Baga beach is miles ahead of Bondi? That I write better poetry than Atalji?

Pliss, pliss don’t do ‘idhar gaya, main udhar gaya’ again na…aur bhi dum hai sulekha ke sivaa.

[Gujjubania, it is my opinion that he is a somewhat conflicted Bohra]

Yeh tau tautology hui :)

Mashallah etc…

# 139

BULLSEYE!!!

You are welcome Omar. The pleasure was all mine.

;-)

Salaam all! As usual a combination of fascinating and `fascinating` discussion in response to Farzanaben`s article. At this moment inner voices (vices?) should be having their say in Mumbai`s BJP Meet - will be interesting to see what the outcome of all that is. Any fortune tellers around?

[Since you mentioned Zafar, he and I do not agree on all issues]

Farzanaben, that is NOT true!

More generally, from what I have been able to gather about Gujjubania, it is my opinion that he is a somewhat conflicted Bohra - so please everybody, be gentle with him.

Best regards

Zafar

sadna, arjun_m
As I said, I`d be really, really happy to be proved wrong, because every pointless death is a tragedy. Ishrat was under surveillance for a year, so there`s obviously something the IB knew. How interesting that earlier Ishrat`s mum said she didn`t know this Javed.
How sad, too, that Javed was a Malayali Pillai from Kochi. It must be awful for the family to know their son was a traitor.
Have you noticed, sadna, that omar and gujjubania are saying the same thing, that you have to be RSS to be a patriotic Indian?

I don`t think, Farzana, that this is a ``coincidence`. Modi is obviously a marked man-they`re going to get him sooner or later, and then he`ll be this great martyr.

Gujjubania,
I promise not to move around with ISI agents :).Given what Omar`s like, though, they`d probably give themselves away in seconds...

It is a fine Sunday morning here in Delhi, weather is great, cool, raining lightly with breeze, and being a Sunday, dog potty litters the complete colony.

The optical fibre cable digging has brought the smell of fresh mud and wails of owners of cars which have sunk into cave-ins overnight.

This feels like Goa.

And early in the morning, I have had one of those surreal conversations with a traditional jhaaddoo and other stuff seller, cycling down the backlanes. The man in full Rayalseema tribal gear, is from Cuddapah, and has just given me a lecture on why people like him come all the way to Delhi to sell jhaaddoos, for instance, for generations now.

Apparently, his village pools resources from the JRY spillovers, and sends 3-4 couples to Delhi every time Parliament is in session, with identity cards and letters requesting their area MP to give them permission to attend Parliament. At the same time, these people are encouraged to try to make their trip cost neutral by going through small efforts like selling jhaaddoos. In the bargain, said the erudite man from Rayalseema, he gets to see most of Delhi.

I am now the proud owner of 6 jhaaddoos, which I shall give away as presents to whoever invites me for a meal over the next few days, since luckily She Who Knows Everything is away in Budapest, teaching yoga.

+++

Farzana ji, what to say, here`s another modern Indian Muslim definition - how about a family planning conscious Muslim taxi driver I`ve known since the days his father drove a hired private taxi, using own new legit taxi yellow plates aircon Tata Indica bought on loan in wife`s name, since she is an employed Army nurse, now with an officer`s rank too? And now he is trying to see how he can motivate the office of the Charity Commissioner to get accounts audited as well as elections held for the mosque in his area (after a gap of two decades of ``control`` by the same people).

+++

On pseudonyms, ok, shall send a few by eMail.

cheers/Veeresh

I do not like to see an Indian woman being shot dead by the Indian state. Nor do I like to see an Indian woman being made the dupe of a neighbouring state Pakistan.

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veeresh: ``Just a thought ji. I mean, look at the flak I get for being a Hindu Indian daring to write about Pakistan?-- shri veeresh jee its not because you`re hindu or indian but because what u write is generally crap and highly misleading :)

coolaljee: ``#87 by CoolAL on June 17, 2004 4:17pm PT
Nikki & Kaurasach

Bravo!!!! Well done guys. Please do continue slinging mud at each other this is making BOTH of you look very good right now.

I will let you in on a secret. The more both of you engage in and argue mindlessly like you are doing now, the stupider you both look. As opposed to someone ``winning`` this one, you guys are BOTH losing ground here -- rapidly. People will start ignoring your posts out of boredom. You don`t want that to happen to you now do you?

Can I make a suggestion? I want both of you to focus on ``Paki Bashing`` :-) That is infinitely more fun I assure you. All you have to do is write two sentences and provide a link that paints the Pakis in a poor light -- fortunately for us, that is a ``target rich environment`` right now --and Omar`s hyper inflated ego will do the rest...it is so easy... then sit back, relax and watch him implode....best entertainment on the web.

Watch and learn from Arjun -- who has made this into an art form.... ``

actually reading this and thinking that arjun_M had made this into an ``art form`` was not only entertaining but validated what i have been saying -- calling u guys paki-bashers -- i think my work is done now cool-lul-jee hahaha

farzana: ``#108 by FarzanaVersey on June 18, 2004 2:11am PT
In this article there is not one word about Muslims, NOT ONE WORD. Yet, Indian Muslims have become the subject here.``

-- well the reason for that FV is that chowk is infested with pathological paki-haters, esp this board -- and prob since u r a muslim too and writing about such things , they cant handle it -- i hope all the pakistani interactors here, esp the ones who try and be unnecessarily accommodating of these paki bashers go through the trouble of reading all the posts on this board, esp by such wise men of chowk as nikki7777, ralphie boy, shri veeresh jee, gujjubaniam, rsridhar and co.

Farzana, then if the establishment commits crimes for which there is no proof, it must also be given the benefit of doubt. I am happy to disgree with you about local kashmiris, because in any case, they`re outnumbered everywhere.

gujju: ``Maybe I call you a traitor etc. etc. , maybe I lash out at you , (and at everybody`s favorite target at sulekha - Zafar) calling you unpatriotic , in the hope I can be rubbished and told - `shut the f.. up , I`m as Indian as you are...``` --
dude u r one sorry ass loser -- i think india could definitely do without the likes of u gujju --

gujju: ``It is a fact that majority of hindus see Indian muslims as anti-national people pining for the land of the pure. For obvious reasons - reasons I have stated in my many rantings here. I personally have no idea what Indian muslims think like , because I never really have interacted much with them beyond a point. I do play cricket/football every other day with a bunch of muslim students from Bihar/UP , but thats about it. Its only on the internet , safe in the anonymity of it all , that we get to know `what the other guy thinks` , or discuss stuff like hindu , muslim etc. So the people I interact with , tell me stories about how muslims in Hyderabad fire crackers when Pakistan beats India , wave pakistani flags etc. - and that sort of annoys me a little , and I lash out.. `

-- dude you`re no different from the seemingly ordinary/average white american teenage kid living in jersey who prob has never interacted with any indians but hates their guts and wouldnt mind swinging a baseball bat at them or two -- doesnt matter if u say u wouldnt do that against muslims but man you`re thoughts and what u say is dangerous -- dude you`re a closet racist -- and dont tell me that you`re not coz u just said in your post that the anoymity of the net and this site allows u to say whatever u want about muslims -- so deep down you hate their f

---

ing guts dont u gujju -- or have the courage to say all this with your real name ... i think you`re too much of a complexed coward to do that ......

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Hi veeresh:

Much as I like the name Dhurandhar Bhatavdekar, I am not too sure it will sit well on me. It is quite a weighty name and I may fail to live up to it. But if at all you wanted to give me this idea of using a pseudonym, you should have done it in an email…ab yeh public hai sab jaanti hai…

I liked your post on another board:
[#23 by veeresh on June 18, 2004 8:02am PT
What`s a modern Muslim?
Well, one solitary example could be the middle-aged lady with a burqa and head-covering . . . piloting the train at Sentosa in Singaore . . . full of Arab tourists with their women in Western clothes.]

I got this bit in a fwd…

Barbara Walters of 20/20 (USA) did a story on gender roles in Kabul
several years before the Afghan conflict. She noted that women customarily
walked about 5 paces behind their husbands. She returned to Kabul recently and
observed that women still walk behind their husbands, but now seem to walk
even further back and are happy with the old custom.

Ms. Walters approached one of the Afghani women and asked, ``Why do you now
seem happy with an old custom that you used to try and change?``

``Land mines,`` said the woman.