Careless Consciences

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Farzana #107
``as for the four Mallus, they probably gave the fish-starved Punjabi some meen curry! ``

Perhaps they did, but that was clearly incidental to their selection. Let us give Dr Singh respect where respect is due.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/jun/03flip.htm
Manmohan: The Mallu Connection

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nooralain # 71, DostMittar # 70

Statements that Muslims should leave this country or that are indeed frightening and abhorrent. But such sentiments are spreading in many (Western) countries as well, even among those who have not been traditionally hostile to the idea of diversity. It would surely help to check this development if the `Islamic world` developed as strong and genuine an `inner conscience` as they keep asking others to develop.

Veeresh


Post #109


Quote:

``Just a thought ji. I mean, look at the flak I get for being a Hindu Indian daring to write about Pakistan? ``

Sorry, you do not get flak (I have no idea whether you get flak or not but am going by what has been written/quoted above) for being a Hindu Indian daring to write about Pakistan but for writing what you write and the manner you write in. :)

#107 FarzanaVersey

Are Farzana aapa aap to gussa ho gayi!! Well, I`m not so good at hindi I had the translated poem readily available which I passed on to you. Anyways had NDA come to power then what would Atalji say...
I heard him on an interview yesterday say
`Hum haarthe hai tabhi charcha karte hain
Aur Hum jeete hai tabhi charcha karte hain`
So I guess he wuld have discussed then as well.

Ferzana,

Being a politician requires having some special qualities. One major quality that a politician must possess is a dormant or dead zamir. If the inner voice is allowed to come out, politicians will lose their best quality and thus be rendered useless, especially in India and Pakistan.

Some polticians in Pakistan do have a concept of inner voice but they use it only when it suits them. Take the MMA government in Peshawar. They consider themselves to be the true ambassadors of Islam. One of the first steps taken by MMA in NWFP was demolishing all hoardings of brands that had female models. It was the inner voice that told them that this was the right thing to do as having female models promoting soaps, shampoos, mobile phones or soft drinks was un-Islamic.

Yet, it was in NWFP recently that a 15 year old girl was marched naked in the streets of her native village on the matter of revenge and honour. But noone of the MMA government said a word about this being un-Islamic. Most of their men, many who must have helped in taking off the hoardings, just stood there and watched. The switch of the so called inner voice was turned to off.

Musharraf is another great example. A man whose inner voice is dictated by that of Bush. We are also waiting for Musharraf to apologize for many things but it seems his inner voice has gone for a vacation. Initially, when he had taken over it seemed as if he would change everything in Pakistan. And after the breakfast show at Agra, we were sure of his promises. But we are a naive nation, and have never learned from past experiences. But now we`re sure that he`s no different.

Our inner voice told us so.

re: Farzanabibi`s recent posts
When Bibi can`t apply logic, she pontifies.
The question is: why does she not write relevant articles, instead of some nonsense about Inner Voice of some people including ABV. What got me pissed off was this statement:
``The inner voice is a handy device. If the Mahatma could use it liberally, and often deviously,..``
Bibi should know that Gandhiji saved millions of muslims during those fateful days. One of his many Inner Voices told him to take a fast in Calcutta, finally bringing peace and saving lives in that city. This is why i feel like kicking this woman`s butt. She is arrogant in a smug fashion. Gandhiji is bracketed with ABV, Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh. The last 3 are still OK by modern India`s abysmal standards but spare the Mahatma. Some of us in foreign shores have the higest regard for him.
Who the hell is Satyendra Dubey? And why does it concern the Bibi so much what Celena Jetley or the victim said ?
Looks like some people have no standards.
Sridhar

Hi Farzana, why don`t you, some day soon, consider writing with a pseudonym here at chowk . . . something like Dhurandher Bhatlekar (if I remember the name correctly from that old Amol Palekar movie, was it GolMaal?) or maybe something as simple as Gyan Prakash (in Indian police stations, the dandaa is often referred to as Gyaan Prakash, got that one?).

Just a thought ji. I mean, look at the flak I get for being a Hindu Indian daring to write about Pakistan?

In this article there is not one word about Muslims, NOT ONE WORD. Yet, Indian Muslims have become the subject here. I can safely infer from this that for all the feelings expressed against people like Modi, when it comes to the crunch, most people would rather sup with the devil or at least not permit others to say that he and others of his ilk need to be denied the dignity they denied others.

As for me being an Islamist/jehadi, I do not think that even those uttering such meaningless words believe it. I mean, would anyone interacting with Yaseen Malik, Shabbir Shah or any member of the LeT have the courage to constantly hit out at them?

I understand that this can be a fun forum and at least two individuals on this board have earlier stated that they sometimes say things without meaning them, which is the reason their efforts at undermining anything I say have absolutely no value for me…or for any sane discussion with me or any sensible interactor.

Some people believe that one should go into a writer’s “background” to judge a piece of writing. It is a choice that one makes, but it does not necessarily add to further discourse. Rattling on and on loses its significance. In post # 53 I pointed out certain responses of mine on another board…it might be of interest for some of you to know that one of the people I was discussing the subject with happens to be a Kashmiri Pandit. And he knows about my ‘history’. Talking of which, one’s background ought not to be relegated to this website, not even to writings in general…there are enough things I have done for me to hold my head high and call myself an honourable citizen of India. I feel rather ashamed to share the same space with some of you, and am glad that many of you have decided to opt for homes elsewhere.

As for asking Indian Muslims to leave the country, this probably works as an afer-dinenr joke when you have had one too many. When you wake up, you will have to see 160 million of us…if you are around, that is. And I mean, if you are living in my country. And not because we have “plans of co-ordinating a muslim invasion of India , killing all the kafeer and jaahil idol worhipping devotees of a million gods and goddesses , and thereby ruling over whole of the subcontinent - just like in the days of their heroes Auranzeb and Ghaznavi”. Such an insecure bunch. We honestly have better things to do…like making padukas for the kar sevaks in Ayodhya, or embroidering Zardosi sarees for designers, or sitting in the slaughterhouse so that most Indians (leave TN, Gujarat, Rajasthan out) can get their choice of meat, or running tanneries, weaving looms…okay also being part of the narcotics trade so that some people – sadhus included – get their snortful of ‘happiness’. And some Muslims go to school, attend offices, visit employment agencies…some get into nefarious activities….like any other people. We are so bloody ornery, you should not even notice.

Unless you are a romantic and believe that ‘Chaudhvin ka Chaand’ was not a movie.

I must thank someone who dug up my ‘past’ and found this bit I had written: “I am absolutely certain that is not the answer. The Indian Muslims stayed here despite being offered some kind of Utopia. They felt and feel an allegiance; you could call it roots, you could call it confusion, you could call it a choice, but it was most certainly not opportunism. Therefore, all they expect is to be treated as equal citizens and I do feel they should be as responsible citizens as anyone else...but there are shirkers from all communities present.”

No wonder I feel good about myself…

Just a reminder…the subject of this article was clearly enunciated in the title, the subhead and the text. The term ‘inner voice’ was used sarcastically towards one group and contrasted with the genuine conscience of another group (Satyendra Dubey). There was scope to discuss these issues; it is important, but from the responses I gather it is not important enough. Those questioning my inner voice (wrt a subject that has been discussed to death) ought to realise that I have emphasised in this article these very questions. With the exception of a handful, no one has bothered about Dubey’s fate or how the lack of political conscience can affect us. I won’t even bother to say that such an attitude reeks of a lack of conscience and consciousness.

#12 by Lathika_t:

Atalji ki kavita ke liye dhanyavaad. Aapko anuvaad karne ki zaroorat nahin thi, main Hindi samajhti hi nahin hoon…eik samay tha jab Hindi mein likhti bhi thi, ‘Jansatta’ mein.

You say, “Lets leave him peaceful at this age...” I would have, if he looked at phool-patey and did not rake up issues for which he was responsible in the first place. Besides, had the NDA returned to power, would you have said the same thing? Would he have said the same thing about Modi? Sochne ki baat hai…
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NHK/nb (hello!good to see you so active now…is it the hilsa or the moodee??): My answer would be the same to you.
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Dear Dost-mittarji (#16):

[And if he cannot govern, he should resign. My gut feeling, though, is that Sonia will not interfere in day-to-day governance. Whether or not she will be able to deal with the Narad Munis is another matter. If she starts listening to them (Narads) MMS should resign; otherwise he will truly become a `khusra`.]

One will have to see what yardstick can be used to judge good governance taking various factors in mind. I think it will be difficult for Sonia to have a genuine coterie (unlike Rajiv), so Narad Munis may be rare. But I can see her interfering. I wish MMS can hold his own…
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#22 by sadna:

Agree with you that the matters raised by Dubey need to be examined, irrespective of the cause of his murder.

[Isn`t this a healthy trend being set by Dr Singh. Instead of choosing all his bureacrats solely on based those who made the effort to curry political favor with him or Congress in the past years, he is giving a larger pool of bureacrats a fair chance based on their experience, interest and talents.]

The point I was making is that this might also give the impression of him/his party virtually ruling the bureaucracy. It is also possible that the resumes on his table have little marks that indicate preferential treatment is to be given…as for the four Mallus, they probably gave the fish-starved Punjabi some meen curry!
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Re. these two statements…

“Go where your heart lies....follow the heart...come on , you can do it....”

Aapke moonh mein ghee-shakar…choice is between Kovalam and Coonoor, but Coorg is an option too.

“(Allah Rocks..)”

Wow…where can I get ’em rocks…I don’t care much for diamonds but a nice solitaire would not hurt…or is this rock like those chic ethnic boulders which you can place in the corner of your drawing room with a dim spotlight on it? Is it limited edition or retailed at various outlets? You truly are a bundle of knowledge…Allah Rocks indeed…lest you think I did not understand your kewl lingo…

Ankit # 96

Shame on you for calling Farzana Versey a sophisticated Jihadi. I would never make such a charge. :)

Farzana
Since your Kashmiri Pandit article is being discussed, I remember a remark you made then saying that so what if they had to leave their homeland in J&K, `India is a homeland for those Pandits`.

I want to point out to you wrt forced Hindu migration out of Muslim majority areas whether J&K or Bangladesh - if India is to be considered a Hindu homeland for Hindus in the entire region, that characterisation/conception of India and automatic endorsement of ethnic cleansing from Muslim majority regions, seriously undermines the position of India`s indigenous Muslims.

If a Hindu from abroad has a right to live in India, simply by virtue of being Hindu, where does that leave an Indian Muslim whose past generations have lived in India except diminished?

Gandhiji understood this at Partition and even went to the shameful extent of exhorting Hindus to stay put in Pakistan and be massacred instead of migrating to safety to India.

But the fact remains, India can not be a secular state and a Hindu homeland both. Being humanitarian is one thing, eternally endorsing/accepting/compensating for defacto/dejure principle of persecution of minorities in neighbouring countries is another matter entirely.

Hence I urge you to understand that `secular Indians` have been doing the wrong thing not only on humanitarian grounds, but also on the count of secularism.

It is in the best interest of India`s secularism and its religious minorities( and required on grounds of humanity) for secular Indians, the media and the Indian government to raise a big stink about the bad treatment of Hindus and other minorities in Bangladesh, Pakistan or Afghanistan and to ensure that Kashmiri Pandits return to their homes in J&K.

#91 by jang
“please everyone participate in the melee..much more fun than discussing this article.”

Okay!!!! Invitation accepted.

#95 by gujjubania

That was a long post and I could not read it all. But I got the drift.
I am with you a 100%. We will take all those Bhaya if you agree to take all those Punjabis. They are all anti Pakistan and we have no place for them in Pakistan.
Those Upiate at least have some training in democracy. These unholy people have no training in any thing. They get beat in every war. They don’t even speak their own language right. I mean they can’t even understand each other.

One condition though. All those Upiates would stay in Pakistani Punjab. We have enough of them in Sindh already.

Deal?

re:#88 by satyamvada

``The overwhelming number of muslims voted for the partition. That many stayed back is more a reflection of their inability to move for various reasons.``
I disagree.
Muslims of the south were not involved at all. Only the North Indian muslims seem to have been given a choice. I did not hear of one single instance of mass migration from the south though some families might have moved from Hyderabad (Deccan) to Pak during those days.
However, i do agree that IMs continue to have strong emotional ties with Pak. They have not reconciled their existence to living in India. This may be one reason that is holding them back from forging ahead economically.
They seem to be in a no-man`s land: neither here nor there.
Their condition would be best explained by this urdu couplet:
`` Na khuda hi mila, na visaal-e-sanam
Na edhar ke rahe na udhar ke``
(Neither could i reach God, nor get a glimpse of my beloved
I was neither here nor there).
Sridhar

Satyamvada #88

{{The overwhelming number of muslims voted for the partition. That many stayed back is more a reflection of their inability to move for various reasons.}}

The franchise under which the 1946 elections (which came to be seen as a referendum for Partition), and preceding ones starting in 1937, were held, was nowhere near universal. I gather from some digging that there were literacy, property and/or income qualifications. These restrictions would have had the effect of boosting the electoral influence of precisely those Muslims who would have the best prospects of personally ‘benefiting’ from the Muslim League’s agenda (whether it was from preferential access to government jobs in an undivided India, or access to post-partition spoils in Pakistan).

So it may be true that a decisive majority of those Muslims who voted in the 1946 elections voted for the Muslim League. It may even be true that a majority or substantial number of those Muslims who voted for the ML, could not move to Pakistan. But unless the majority of Indian Muslims of the period – not just those who had the vote - gave their approval for the partition, it is quite unfair to lay the responsibility for partition on them, let alone on Indian Muslims today.