Careless Consciences

``I am amazed that while nb and sadna, with the best of intentions perhaps, are taking up the cause of Ishrat with such fervour, there is no questioning of their patriotism. I have other reasons not to comment yet, but what if I had done the same? ``

For the record, my patriotism has been questioned, not on chowk but elsewhere.

``And what about Indian men? That hawker who was rounded up? That 80-year-old man? ``

I don`t like those either. But when a woman is shot dead, which has been rare, I protest that too.

You missed the second part on which we might or might not differ. I also protest the cynical use of the Indian woman by the Pakistani state intent on sponsoring terrorism in J&K and rest of India in the name of Islam.

This cynical use applies to men too, which I have been protesting in different ways for a long time.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

+++++++++++

#144 by sadna on June 19, 2004 2:27pm PT
I do not like to see an Indian woman being shot dead by the Indian state. Nor do I like to see an Indian woman being made the dupe of a neighbouring state Pakistan.

++++++++++++


hold your horses. she might have been a terrorist. in fact, cosidering the terrorist that we face, i would be more inclined to give the benefit of doubt to the police before anything concrete comes up.

if there is a doubt, an investigation can always be ordered. also, looks like there are lot of inconsistencies in the testimony of her mother. IB has also said that they were traliling her for quite some time now.

http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=2&theme=&usrsess=1&id=46152

gujjubania #various
First you tried religion `you are wrong because you are Muslim`, now you are trying gender `you are wrong because you are a woman`. What is it that are you arguing so bitterly about, anyway?

has there really been anything satya about satyamvada so far, more like satya tera satya naas no? how about YOU adding i`m a FV stalker and my comprehension skills are next to nil?

THe issue is that religio-spiritual metaphors and collective psychologies gets used in politics to often and carelessly that they lose their significance- concepts like `hindu hurt`, `punjabi pride`, `inner spirit`, `inner voice` and a host of these imageries used by Hindu Pracharaks or Islamic Jehadists to mobilize people politically.
Obviously this `inner voice` thing is such a wooly concept- it has lost its significance- almost like the definition of `love` attempted by various characters in the movie `Kal ho na ho` (with Frankie defining it as `Love means to Chill`). So forget haranguing over this stupid metaphor - it makes as good a sense as `marathi asmita` or `gali no 10 asmita`.
And this concept about `original` inhabitants is almost a joke since the story of Aryans pushing the Dravidians went around.
Regarding the Ishrat episode- the family members must come out with the complete story before the media !!

This person`s comments merit no reaction, but for ill-informed posts intent on misleading there is no dearth of people who will pounce on it without even caring to find out the truth.

The lie: ``Your defense of this girl `ishrat` is so one-sided that it is laughable!.``

The truth: ``You are right that people ought to be seen as innocent till proved guilty, but then where is the proof of so many heinous crimes committed by Establishment individuals? In Ishrat’s case, there may be every reason to believe she is innocent, but in a general sense I will not say that a simple collegian, 19 years old, cannot be a part of such activities. When I am personally convinced that there is absolutely no basis to her involvement (like I am more or less certain that the whole Modi-martyrdom is being buffered), then I will say something about it.`` ( #133 by FarzanaVersey on June
19, 2004 2:23am PT) and

``I am amazed that while nb and sadna, with the best of intentions perhaps, are taking up the cause of Ishrat with such fervour, there is no questioning of their patriotism. I have other reasons not to comment yet, but what if I had done the same?`` (#149 by FarzanaVersey on June 20, 2004 0:30am PT)

#169

Quite quite true. Absolutely. And it is shameful for the government, and even more so rational citizens, to pander to such utter bullshit.

BTW, Farzana, in the manner of my Banarasi friends,kahey ka fervour ? Just a suggestion, that`s all. I`m quite happy to admit that I want to keep being reassured that the Indian state is on the right path. And I don`t believe the police went for her because she was a Muslim, once she was in the group, they just didn`t try to avoid her, is all I think.
My patriotism gets questioned all the time-you have yourself indicated that those who live outside India shouldn`t really be talking, or words to that effect. But that`s fine. I know that when I get off the plane, I can`t stop myself from awkwardly, secretly, bending down and touching the soil in wonder-and love.

forgot to add to the last post: ``gujju tera mentor hai yeh yaar`` :) -- modi jee not ABV of course :(


wonder what the paki-bashers will say about this:

BJP stands by Modi

NEW DELHI, June 20: India`s opposition Hindu nationalists on Sunday shot down renewed calls to dismiss Gujarat`s hardline leader, who is accused of abetting anti-Muslim violence in the western state.

``There is no proposal to change the leadership of Gujarat at this juncture,`` Venkaiah Naidu, president of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), told reporters after a meeting of top party leaders in New Delhi.

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi had come under fresh scrutiny after police said they gunned down four Muslims, including a 19-year-old woman, last Tuesday because they allegedly plotted to assassinate the state leader.

India`s ruling Congress party has suggested that the shootout was a set-up to build sympathy for Modi and demanded an impartial probe. Former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, breaking with his party`s longstanding backing of Modi, said last week that a BJP national meeting set to start on Tuesday in Mumbai would consider replacing the Gujarat leader.

Vajpayee also said for the first time that anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat, which left 2,000 people dead in 2002, contributed to the BJP`s upset election defeat in April-May elections.

But Vajpayee`s remarks led hardliners to rally around Modi, who had been facing calls for his resignation even from some BJP lawmakers in Gujarat. Vajpayee took part in Sunday`s BJP meeting, which was seen as an attempt to clear up intra-party disputes instead of airing them publicly at the Mumbai convention. -AFP

wonder what the paki-bashers will say about this:

BJP stands by Modi

NEW DELHI, June 20: India`s opposition Hindu nationalists on Sunday shot down renewed calls to dismiss Gujarat`s hardline leader, who is accused of abetting anti-Muslim violence in the western state.

``There is no proposal to change the leadership of Gujarat at this juncture,`` Venkaiah Naidu, president of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), told reporters after a meeting of top party leaders in New Delhi.

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi had come under fresh scrutiny after police said they gunned down four Muslims, including a 19-year-old woman, last Tuesday because they allegedly plotted to assassinate the state leader.

India`s ruling Congress party has suggested that the shootout was a set-up to build sympathy for Modi and demanded an impartial probe. Former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, breaking with his party`s longstanding backing of Modi, said last week that a BJP national meeting set to start on Tuesday in Mumbai would consider replacing the Gujarat leader.

Vajpayee also said for the first time that anti-Muslim riots in Gujarat, which left 2,000 people dead in 2002, contributed to the BJP`s upset election defeat in April-May elections.

But Vajpayee`s remarks led hardliners to rally around Modi, who had been facing calls for his resignation even from some BJP lawmakers in Gujarat. Vajpayee took part in Sunday`s BJP meeting, which was seen as an attempt to clear up intra-party disputes instead of airing them publicly at the Mumbai convention. -AFP

nb: ``I promise not to move around with ISI agents :).Given what Omar`s like, though, they`d probably give themselves away in seconds... `` -- dah ling your joined-at-the-hip twin already gave herself away quite easily and a long time ago too

fv: ``3. I would imagine you would refrain from using a term like “Paki”…it has derogatory connotations and in the West often includes Indians and Bangladeshis…`` actually in the US FV a black guy can use nigger in a self-deprecatory sense and thats how i use it here -- i think i know it has a derogatory sense by the way

fv on gujju: ``He also agrees that what he does here is not constructive…`` -- well no fv i dont think that can excuse what he said or justify it or mitigate its hate level or whatever

fv: ``As far as I am concerned, there are some misguided/vile individuals around…if they happen to hate Pakistan/Pakistanis, then that is incidental to what they spout here…and I vehemently oppose them for what they say on subjects that concern me and Indian Muslims.`` -- its ok i understand their types on chowk -- and by the way fv in case u didnt notice i didnt see a single indian interactor unequivocally condemning what he said by the way... quite revealing wouldnt u say -- i think if a pakistani interactor such said drivel of hindus he would definitely be excommunicated by at least some of his/her compatriots on this site ... tch tch what is the world coming to ?

coolal: ``You are welcome Omar. The pleasure was all mine.``

---

naheeen yaaarrrrr -- reallllyyyyyyyy ????


gujju: ``quraishi , Hmm.. whatever you say genius. But I still dont understand that `hate their guts` part. I prefer to remain anonymous because I`m scared of my dad finding out I waste my time hanging out on various message boards rather than doing something constructive. For you to suggest its because of some fear of muslims or (haha) a missile attack on my house from across the border is so silly !! By the way , you haven`t thanked me yet for the lessons that I taught you last time...

haan u wont understand the hate the guts part gujju -- dont worry youre kind wont -- and by the way dude u should have come up with a better excuse than youre dad finding out what u do here -- u think he is gonna come on chowk and see what u do -- as for thanking u gujju jee, im not sure if i u deserve thanks for showing to lowly ones like me that racists can actually be found on websites like this and in fact, at least in anonymity, admit to their views -- as for pakistan`s per capita income, yes gujju jee, at $652 (and this isnt purchasing power parity) is h igher than india`s -- the cia factbook sweetie takes it figures from the most recent economic survey of pakistan and from the finance ministry, which in case u missed said that pakistan gdp, was now $98 billio and with a population of some 149 million comes to around 653 US dollars ....


#158 by sadna on June 20, 2004 10:12am PT nb #146
``Have you noticed, sadna, that omar and gujjubania are saying the same thing, that you have to be RSS to be a patriotic Indian?`` Good observation! They must have been separated at birth. -- u guys still have to separated ... hahaha