Origins of Hijab

#76: [To be honest, it was kind of surprising to find ``you`` addressing this topic. ]

This topic = Hijab.

``The pre-Islamic society in Arabia, the so-called jahiliyya, was structured in a way that the women were totally handicapped; the men dominated in every conceivable way. The women were owned by men just like any other piece of property (many would probably like to argue that they still are!). They could acquire them, use them, and dump them in whatever way they wanted with impunity and without any moral compunction or punity.``(Gill)

PreIslamic? -- are we sure -- looks more like -- Ahade Jahiliya -- never ended for us -- the Post Islamic Muslims....

it is well -- its alive -- and it is KICKING -- in`Post Islamic` Wahabi Arabia -- in Post Islamic Talibani Afghanistan -- in Post Islamic Hudoodi Pakistan -- in almost all the Post-Islamic Muslimistans of the entire world -- in 2004....

btw -- will anybody care to explain why we Muslims should have such -- extraordinary pathological FETISH -- with a very ordinary common-place HAIR on a hirsute Muslima`s head...... ?

why such paranoia -- such obsession to cover it up....?...why to make such a beautiful thing so ugly...?

Freethinker: First of all congrats for spearheading the corner of ``Science and Sciencibility``. To be honest, it was kind of surprising to find ``you`` addressing this topic. I wanted to share with you some links on Imam Feisal:

1. http://www.interfaithhome.org/index.asp?section=1
2. http://www.abc.net.au/sundaynights/stories/s1075592.htm
3. http://www.asmasociety.org/about/b_rauf.html

Interestingly, the Imam has a major in Physics. There is another very smart guy, a scientist by background, who speaks very eloquently on the subject of religion and specific nuances. I think the said gentleman headed the department of physics or engineering at a prominent university in Iran. He left Iran after the revolution and is probably somewhere in Europe, if I am not mistaken. I have forgotten his exact name, but it`s something Nasir or Nasr. I have watched a few of his interviews at the interfaith discussions a few years back and he was solid and impressive. Nothing like Hamza Yousaf. I cannot stand that fellow! Somehow, I have always had more respect for both religious and non-religious people with a background in science/engg/technology. They don`t push Muslims to go back to the dinosaurs` times and live a destitute`s life in caves. I cannot generalize that for all the enlightened muslim teachers, speakers and preachers since I have not established a personal contact with all of them to pick their brains. Still my observation is based on my personal experience and liking. Also, something I really appreciate in the above two guys is the little focus on hijab, jilab and other derivatives. They have more focus on spiritual enlightenment.

The world will not fall apart if a woman does not cover her breasts or rear or upper arms or ankles. Some disturbed men may fall apart but that`s their issue. And, they should be treated accordingly for their mental disorder. The rest of the world ought to move on towards productivity, search for internal balance and enlightenment. There are 100s of other recommendations in Islam for living a productive and harmonious life, but surprisingly a certain category of muslims pays far more attention to the concepts of hijab and jilab(i do not even know what that stands for - probably a cousin of hijaab) than anything else. It`s a little weird.

Ok y’all … here’s a good one … “What’s right with Islam” …by none other than the honorable Imam Sahib. Must be a pocket version … no more than 12 pages … including a verbose, repugnant introduction… followed by a call of unity to the psychotic ummah … while reminding them of the hadith that beating of wives should not leave a permanent mark on their skin (“it’s the women’s skin … not the men’s … you moron …" Imam Sahib was once heard screaming out aloud during the jumma khutba ...)

These ullema are not making any sense ... this includes those grown and bred in the US … white and black … who basically suffer from a cultural inferiority complex … and yearn to be one with the ancient civilization of concubines, slaves, and bloody battles. Of course, watching Dianne Kruger in Troy only makes them more nostalgic. And this includes that bay area idiot … hamza yusuf … who went on the air awhile back singing praises of Muhammad’s midnight flight to the seventh cloud … it didn’t occur to him that the chief was probably referring to the sexual ecstasy of sleeping with a 14-year old … huh? did I just say that …?

dost-mittar #60
I agree with you about cause and effect and what is the judicious thing to do in such circumstances. But what to do, inside every individual resides a satyagrahi as Gandhiji knew:). It depends on community leaders whether this fervor is channeled into positive directions.

Hijab is very different. I cant explain why by logic. Its not a mere religious symbol.

e.g. if i see a Hassidic Jew in a bowler hat and hair-locks, what comes to my mind? Diamond merchants, bagels, sleazy camera shop owners on 42nd street, Amsterdam, Lox, whitefish, bad smell of chicken-soup, yeshiva university etc. no fear is felt.

if i see a turban sikh, it flashes bhangra, fish koliwada (or amritsar), bhangara, sardarji jokes, SikhLi, sport for support (or is it the other way), kadha prashad, sunday TV bhajans
sung by bhais, Langar at Hemkund-Sahib, little kid in kuch-kuch hota hai, field hockey, tire-shop owners, truckers, drunkern fights during Vaishakhi Celbrations, and other stereo-types (no, seeing a turban does not flash Economist from LSE).

hijab triggers folks jumping out of WTC towers, fierce-looking mujis carrying RPGs, the long sword on the Saudi flag, riots and communal conflicts, worrying future for poorer, ill-prepared oil states, indoctroinated gulf workers, talak-talak-talak, all the past conquering dynasties, pity for the hijaban (they somehow look sad).

So, logically, Hijab should somhow induce the feeling of peace in us (that the hijaban feels), but the left-side of the brain just does not co-operate. We need about at-least 50 years of peace with 200 Nobel Prize winners from the peaceful religion, 20% of them as women, and Al-Jazeera discussing Bahrain Stock-Exchange (and only one bombing per month), to make the left-brain co-operate with the right side.

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#50 by malyck on June 24, 2004 1:22pm PT
ankit #236
``jus wanted to add that it is convenient to say that what teesta seetalvad professes is not secularism. ``

Not sure what you mean, but I will point out that it is convenient for Hindutva-vadis too, who inspite of many years in power have not stopped holding others responsible for their their own blatant biases and biased actions.

INEVER PASTED THIS MSG ON THIS ARTICLE MY MSG WAS TOTALLY DIFFERENT ......... WHERE DOES THIS COME FROM ........... CHOWK STAFF I NEED AN URGENT REPLY

THE NEED FOR MODESTY IS THE SAME IN BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. AS CHASTITY IS A VIRTUE FOR MALE AND FEMALE IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY CONCESSIONS

The need for modesty is stressed for men too as in Sura Al Noor, Verse 30,

``Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purify for them ......``

And then the need is stressed for females to be modest and observe pardah (not hijab). It comes in next verse i.e., Sura Al Noor, Verse 31,

``And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and gueard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments ....``

So if we go the Islamic version then typical horney men should first have to leave their immodest evil x-ray eyes and then female are to observe pardah. Its similar to the idea that the prostitution can only be ended if men stop going to prostitutes.

Dont use pardah as an excuse to hide females behind thick walls of clothes ... first get ur (and offcourse mine too) eye lids in position and then talk about pardah.

Zahraj:

Thanks for your valueable input. Such personal experiences are more to the point than the ravings emanating from pre-formed prejudices. In my own department, there is an Arab woman holding a responsible position who wears a hijab. I have attended meetings with her, no body feels odd that she wears a hijab. It will be hard to believe that she is coerced by her family to wear it; as a matter of fact her family may be looking upto her.

Wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

Karauasch # 4

(I saw a documentary about Iran where women (chador clad) and men ``marry`` (he he) for a few hours. Some of these contracts take place in a mosque.)

Fiqhe Jafferiah is more liberal, generally more educated and is more organized. Although it suffers from the usual drawbacks of a formal dogma - meaning spiritual diktat of Mulla - and alien to the concept of democracy.

Incidently, how many women wear Hijab, Niqab or Burqa in Pakistan? An insignificant minority.

The village Women (around 70 %) who pick cotton, milch cattle or do household jobs have never even heard of these terminologies.

The NWFP women take Chaddor. Only Jamaat Islami women wear Niqab with a vengeance. Hijaab is worn more as a rebellion or a fashion statement in a very small group of upper class women.

Burqa in Pakistan has almost become non-existant unlike Afghanistan.

Doppatta or Chunni is the standard head cover.

It appears that the expatriot Muslim women have taken up this more seriously than others.

The age old concept keeps on coming back as Fatima Mernissi and others keep on bringing new books to the market. I am not sure if you have looked into the recent one by Imam Feisal on ``What`s Right With Islam: A New Vision for Muslims and the West.`` Some excerpts are quite interesting. Since I have met him in person a few times therefore it`s easy to see where the writer is coming from.

[Unfortunately, it has been politicized in several western countries which seem to be paranoid of the Muslim culture.]

I disagree with your take. There are very valid reasons behind the paranoia. The current affairs will continue to impart their negative effect.

[In the face of this opposition, many non-Arab Muslim women have also started wearing it to assert their Muslim identity.]

True. Sometimes it`s to assert their identity but other times it`s the inner call that makes some women take that route. Some people listen to their inner call and act upon it whereas others ignore that. It`s very personal and does not require another book of analysis in my opinion. To give an example: One of my aunts, a senior vp at a large financial institution in manhattan, took that route a few years back. She has been with the bank for over 15 years or so. I remembered her telling me about the request she had submitted to secure some privacy for her prayers almost a decade ago. The request was accepted. Out of the blue, in the last few years, she has started covering her hair with a scarf. To top it all, she went up to her management team to explain her step due to the visibility of her position. By the way, she just got promoted to an avp last year. Her promotion took place despite the fact that she wore a scarf. I am sure the journey was not as smooth and rosy as I have tried to portray, but I have always appreciated the fact that she never allowed that to be a road-block. Last but not least, her surroundings (western) appreciate her experience and talent as a person with little focus on her head gear, race, ethnicity or gender. So, there are all kinds of examples one can look into.

#57 by Romair on June 24, 2004 4:33pm PT

Yes, in democratic societies people have the right to adopt hijab in the manner they deem it fit (with or without a piece of cloth, or with just modesty in their daily conduct ) - provided they do not infringe upon any of the rights of the individual citizens.

Agreed, but the problem starts when the Islamists try to force a particular interpretation of `hijab` upon others and then run all over the streets with acid or batons in their hands trying to enforce it!!!

So the only issue is that of `hijab` versus the `ordinary citizen rights` in a democracy!!!
Can we tolerate our women folk not covering themselves appropriately before others just because she thinnks it goes against her right to live her life the way she wants to without breaking any law in the modern democratic societies??

Answer this- and you would know where you stand!!!

escapist: that was a statement of fact. not rhetoric. and these are questions below. not rhetoric:



1. what is important in the Quran (hint: read where it says that those who..have nothing to fear on the Judgement Day).



2. what part of the body does the Quran specifically call for being hidden (hint: it aint the head.)



These are BASICS to which the entire muslim world turns a blind eye. The hijab is a stupid act of political statement (no different than the black glove used by blacks in the US in the 1970`s). If anything, by directing attention to the wearer, the hijab is a direct violation of the spirit of the Quran.



and I have said this a zillion times on chowk, and didnt want to waste my breath with the hypocrisy of the islamist chauvinist pigs anymore.

There is one valid point that people seem to be missing here . . . while religious signs or gender defining apparel is one thing, blocking the economic/cultural amancipation and awareness and rights of a complete gender is another.

The full cover hijab/burqa, to the non-Muslim eye, and probably to the realistic Muslim eye also, seems to designate a major gender bias. Against women.

The chunni/veil, with Hindus/Sikhs/Christians and even many Muslims, on the other hand, does no such thing.

DullaBhatti # 45

(idhar asiN kuttay khasi karday rehnday aan.:-) )

HA. HA. HA. You come out with the most genuine Punjabi Quotes :-)