SAJA Convention: Chowk Insights
Saima Shah June 23, 2004
#24 Posted by stuka on June 25, 2004 11:38:49 am
#22
HAHAHA. Point to be noted. Though the leftist Indians that dominate SAJA might as well be Pakistani.
HAHAHA. Point to be noted. Though the leftist Indians that dominate SAJA might as well be Pakistani.
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#23 Posted by nikki7777 on June 25, 2004 9:29:29 am
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#22 Posted by Urstruly on June 25, 2004 6:56:43 am
saimashah
Can you tell, what percentage of journalists in SAJA are of Pakistani origin?
Can you tell, what percentage of journalists in SAJA are of Pakistani origin?
#21 Posted by Romair on June 25, 2004 6:50:03 am
FarzanaVarsey #19: There is nothing wrong with putting two, or even ten, articles on the front page, by the same author. That is, ``editor`s perrogative.`` But, if they get ten a day (which is a hell of a lot), then either most of the articles they get are crap, or they look at the writer`s name, before they look at what he/she has written.
If they are all crap, then it makes sense to put the same people up, again and again. But if they aren`t crap, then I think, as a matter of policy, they should limit one article from one person, at one time, on the front page. And maybe one per two months, at most, from the same person.........
The second part is more important. One should always look at the text, before looking at the name of the author, when deciding the merit of the written word, that is to be published. Granted this doesn`t hold for big publishing houses. But big houses are trying to make money, and thus want to use names that are known to the public. Chowk isn`t trying to make money, and none of the authors here are really known to the public (don`t know about the Indian side). The one or two who are known, like Sehbai and Hoodbhoy, apparently don`t have the time or motivation to comment on thier own articles.
It is a hell of an achievement to get ten submissions of articles a day, for any website - much less a South Asian one. But then that should be utilized. Who knows, maybe in those ten-a-day, there is a fledgling Shakespeare, waiting to bloom.......Why not try to find him/her......
As an example, I know about as much about good and bad English poetry, as I do about good and bad Sushi. I cannot understand any of it, since English is my second language. Nor can I understand Ghalib`s Urdu poetry, since Urdu is my second language also. Punjabi being the first - which I cannot understand much either (the only language I feel comfortable in is Java). Anyways, to understand Ghalib, I had to translate him into English. I did that. Then someone told me to send it in. I figured it would be too boring on its own, and would not get published, so I took the first attempt in my 30+++ years of life, to write poetry. I sent it in, and it got published. Guess what.....since then, some big Urdu-dan professor in Pakistan in touch with me, and he may want to publish more of my translations, into a book.....Even hamidm, who disagrees with everyone on everything, has told me to write more poetry......
That from me - guy who, for so long thought Deewan-e-Ghalib was a book on the later years of Ghalib`s life, covering his pschological disorders. I flunked Urdu in Pakistan, and English in the USA......Go figure........So as I said, who knows who maybe hiding in the piles of articles that are rejected (unless they are crap), to accomodate two or more articles from the same individuals on the first page....
Then again, it is not a crime, and is the editor`s perrogative........
If they are all crap, then it makes sense to put the same people up, again and again. But if they aren`t crap, then I think, as a matter of policy, they should limit one article from one person, at one time, on the front page. And maybe one per two months, at most, from the same person.........
The second part is more important. One should always look at the text, before looking at the name of the author, when deciding the merit of the written word, that is to be published. Granted this doesn`t hold for big publishing houses. But big houses are trying to make money, and thus want to use names that are known to the public. Chowk isn`t trying to make money, and none of the authors here are really known to the public (don`t know about the Indian side). The one or two who are known, like Sehbai and Hoodbhoy, apparently don`t have the time or motivation to comment on thier own articles.
It is a hell of an achievement to get ten submissions of articles a day, for any website - much less a South Asian one. But then that should be utilized. Who knows, maybe in those ten-a-day, there is a fledgling Shakespeare, waiting to bloom.......Why not try to find him/her......
As an example, I know about as much about good and bad English poetry, as I do about good and bad Sushi. I cannot understand any of it, since English is my second language. Nor can I understand Ghalib`s Urdu poetry, since Urdu is my second language also. Punjabi being the first - which I cannot understand much either (the only language I feel comfortable in is Java). Anyways, to understand Ghalib, I had to translate him into English. I did that. Then someone told me to send it in. I figured it would be too boring on its own, and would not get published, so I took the first attempt in my 30+++ years of life, to write poetry. I sent it in, and it got published. Guess what.....since then, some big Urdu-dan professor in Pakistan in touch with me, and he may want to publish more of my translations, into a book.....Even hamidm, who disagrees with everyone on everything, has told me to write more poetry......
That from me - guy who, for so long thought Deewan-e-Ghalib was a book on the later years of Ghalib`s life, covering his pschological disorders. I flunked Urdu in Pakistan, and English in the USA......Go figure........So as I said, who knows who maybe hiding in the piles of articles that are rejected (unless they are crap), to accomodate two or more articles from the same individuals on the first page....
Then again, it is not a crime, and is the editor`s perrogative........
#20 Posted by Romair on June 25, 2004 6:50:01 am
FarzanaVarsey #19: There is nothing wrong with putting two, or even ten, articles on the front page, by the same author. That is, ``editor`s perrogative.`` But, if they get ten a day (which is a hell of a lot), then either most of the articles they get are crap, or they look at the writer`s name, before they look at what he/she has written.
If they are all crap, then it makes sense to put the same people up, again and again. But if they aren`t crap, then I think, as a matter of policy, they should limit one article from one person, at one time, on the front page. And maybe one per two months, at most, from the same person.........
The second part is more important. One should always look at the text, before looking at the name of the author, when deciding the merit of the written word, that is to be published. Granted this doesn`t hold for big publishing houses. But big houses are trying to make money, and thus want to use names that are known to the public. Chowk isn`t trying to make money, and none of the authors here are really known to the public (don`t know about the Indian side). The one or two who are known, like Sehbai and Hoodbhoy, apparently don`t have the time or motivation to comment on thier own articles.
It is a hell of an achievement to get ten submissions of articles a day, for any website - much less a South Asian one. But then that should be utilized. Who knows, maybe in those ten-a-day, there is a fledgling Shakespeare, waiting to bloom.......Why not try to find him/her......
As an example, I know about as much about good and bad English poetry, as I do about good and bad Sushi. I cannot understand any of it, since English is my second language. Nor can I understand Ghalib`s Urdu poetry, since Urdu is my second language also. Punjabi being the first - which I cannot understand much either (the only language I feel comfortable in is Java). Anyways, to understand Ghalib, I had to translate him into English. I did that. Then someone told me to send it in. I figured it would be too boring on its own, and would not get published, so I took the first attempt in my 30+++ years of life, to write poetry. I sent it in, and it got published. Guess what.....since then, some big Urdu-dan professor in Pakistan in touch with me, and he may want to publish more of my translations, into a book.....Even hamidm, who disagrees with everyone on everything, has told me to write more poetry......
That from me - guy who, for so long thought Deewan-e-Ghalib was a book on the later years of Ghalib`s life, covering his pschological disorders. I flunked Urdu in Pakistan, and English in the USA......Go figure........So as I said, who knows who maybe hiding in the piles of articles that are rejected (unless they are crap), to accomodate two or more articles from the same individuals on the first page....
Then again, it is not a crime, and is the editor`s perrogative........
If they are all crap, then it makes sense to put the same people up, again and again. But if they aren`t crap, then I think, as a matter of policy, they should limit one article from one person, at one time, on the front page. And maybe one per two months, at most, from the same person.........
The second part is more important. One should always look at the text, before looking at the name of the author, when deciding the merit of the written word, that is to be published. Granted this doesn`t hold for big publishing houses. But big houses are trying to make money, and thus want to use names that are known to the public. Chowk isn`t trying to make money, and none of the authors here are really known to the public (don`t know about the Indian side). The one or two who are known, like Sehbai and Hoodbhoy, apparently don`t have the time or motivation to comment on thier own articles.
It is a hell of an achievement to get ten submissions of articles a day, for any website - much less a South Asian one. But then that should be utilized. Who knows, maybe in those ten-a-day, there is a fledgling Shakespeare, waiting to bloom.......Why not try to find him/her......
As an example, I know about as much about good and bad English poetry, as I do about good and bad Sushi. I cannot understand any of it, since English is my second language. Nor can I understand Ghalib`s Urdu poetry, since Urdu is my second language also. Punjabi being the first - which I cannot understand much either (the only language I feel comfortable in is Java). Anyways, to understand Ghalib, I had to translate him into English. I did that. Then someone told me to send it in. I figured it would be too boring on its own, and would not get published, so I took the first attempt in my 30+++ years of life, to write poetry. I sent it in, and it got published. Guess what.....since then, some big Urdu-dan professor in Pakistan in touch with me, and he may want to publish more of my translations, into a book.....Even hamidm, who disagrees with everyone on everything, has told me to write more poetry......
That from me - guy who, for so long thought Deewan-e-Ghalib was a book on the later years of Ghalib`s life, covering his pschological disorders. I flunked Urdu in Pakistan, and English in the USA......Go figure........So as I said, who knows who maybe hiding in the piles of articles that are rejected (unless they are crap), to accomodate two or more articles from the same individuals on the first page....
Then again, it is not a crime, and is the editor`s perrogative........
#19 Posted by FarzanaVersey on June 25, 2004 5:51:40 am
#3 by Romair:
[``Chowk gets around 10 articles and essays on most days``
That`s quite a lot. How do you decide who gets in and who is out? Since we regularly see more than one article by same authors on the front page......... ]
As an `offender`, and I speak on my behalf and as part of the media...it is common practice for newspapers/webzines to have columnists. A column is a regular feature, often a weekly. Therefore, you sometimes see the same authors on the front page more often (on my part I tend to ask the Chowk editors to remove an old piece of mine to accommodate the new one, not because it is unethical; I guess I feel embarrassed!). However, when a subject is being discussed, as again my earlier one was, I let it pass.
But you cannot ignore the concept of `topicality`. Even porn sites I am sure would want to update their pictures, though of course you would not find the comparison fair...woh kahaan aur hum kahaan :)
Elsewhere you had said that Chowk tended to concentrate on Indo-Pak,BJP-Congress, Kashmir etc issues...again, this is my personal take: These are subjects that concern a large chunk of our populations, and need to be discussed. There has always been space for the `softer` pieces but you can rarely have a dialogue on these subjects. Therefore, both kinds of writing serve a purpose and I would not think it essential to force `papad-pickle-phool-pattey` only to `balance` the picture.
There are wonderful poems, personal essays, short stories that have got published, and Chowk puts them on the front page, unlike newspapers.
Just thought I`d share my views. Besides, how often do you interact on the `softer` boards? Think about it.
[``Chowk gets around 10 articles and essays on most days``
That`s quite a lot. How do you decide who gets in and who is out? Since we regularly see more than one article by same authors on the front page......... ]
As an `offender`, and I speak on my behalf and as part of the media...it is common practice for newspapers/webzines to have columnists. A column is a regular feature, often a weekly. Therefore, you sometimes see the same authors on the front page more often (on my part I tend to ask the Chowk editors to remove an old piece of mine to accommodate the new one, not because it is unethical; I guess I feel embarrassed!). However, when a subject is being discussed, as again my earlier one was, I let it pass.
But you cannot ignore the concept of `topicality`. Even porn sites I am sure would want to update their pictures, though of course you would not find the comparison fair...woh kahaan aur hum kahaan :)
Elsewhere you had said that Chowk tended to concentrate on Indo-Pak,BJP-Congress, Kashmir etc issues...again, this is my personal take: These are subjects that concern a large chunk of our populations, and need to be discussed. There has always been space for the `softer` pieces but you can rarely have a dialogue on these subjects. Therefore, both kinds of writing serve a purpose and I would not think it essential to force `papad-pickle-phool-pattey` only to `balance` the picture.
There are wonderful poems, personal essays, short stories that have got published, and Chowk puts them on the front page, unlike newspapers.
Just thought I`d share my views. Besides, how often do you interact on the `softer` boards? Think about it.
#18 Posted by FarzanaVersey on June 25, 2004 5:34:00 am
Hi Saima:
Just a few observations...
Isn`t it true that very few South Asian journalists have broken into mainstream Western media to become a part of it and not only to comment on what happens in `their part of the world`(that is if it can be called their, considering they have no real roots back home)?
Even in terms of a fad, a William Dalrymple will get more respectability for commenting on say Indian exotica...a person of Indian origin would feel the conflict -- `using` one`s history and `using` a fad. That is the impression from afar.
Did the speakers address such a conflict? Are we then to assume that it is either hidden or perhaps I am seeing more to it?
Just thought I`d share...and, yes, welcome back :) I did not think I was in charge of this department!)
Just a few observations...
Isn`t it true that very few South Asian journalists have broken into mainstream Western media to become a part of it and not only to comment on what happens in `their part of the world`(that is if it can be called their, considering they have no real roots back home)?
Even in terms of a fad, a William Dalrymple will get more respectability for commenting on say Indian exotica...a person of Indian origin would feel the conflict -- `using` one`s history and `using` a fad. That is the impression from afar.
Did the speakers address such a conflict? Are we then to assume that it is either hidden or perhaps I am seeing more to it?
Just thought I`d share...and, yes, welcome back :) I did not think I was in charge of this department!)
#17 Posted by Romair on June 24, 2004 10:03:01 pm
nikki7777 #15: ``IS THERE ANYONE WHO CAN UPDATE ME ON THE LITERARY SCENE IF ANY, IN THE OTHER SOUTH ASIAN COUNTRIES??.Just curious.That`s all.``
There isn`t much outside India.
I have been in the process of building a library of South Asian English writers. I pick and chose from Indian writers, however, from everywhere else, specifically Pakistan, I buy whatever is available (becaue there is so little available).
Muneeza Shamsie, a Pakistani literary critic (whatever that means) has authored a book called A Dragonfly in the Sun. It covers the Pakistani literary scene, if you are interested.
Basically, my $.02 on Pakistani authors.
- There are a few young ones coming up, so the scene is only now starting to build up.
- Bapsi Sidhwa is the grandmother of Pakistani English literature. In my opinion, she is bascially average. If that.
- Mohsin Hamid is a talented guy. I put him in the same league as any of the top Indian authors. He is just written one book. But one can see talent in him, like one can see in Irfan Pathan as a bowler.
- Kamila Shamsie is probably no. 2. She is pretty good also, and is one of the better young English writers in England, as far as light romantic tales, with political backgrounds go. I wrote a review on her, on this site, which you can read if you want.
- Everyone else within Pakistan is just good enough to get published. If that. Very ordinary.
- Hanif Kureshi gets the best literary reviews of any Pakistani author outside Pakistan. He is internationally established.
- Tariq Ali is the best debator I have ever seen, in the English language. I have seen him make neo-con after neo-con cry. His political writings are interesting. However, his literary stuff is quite average. Though his fictional books on Islamic history are worth reading, not for their writings, but because they are quite original.
- Ahmad Rashid is the king of books on Central Asia. He is the international authority on the subject. And I believe his Taliban book was no. 1 on Amazon, and may have been the highest selling book, ever, of any author from South Asia.
- The Ondaatje brothers of Sri Lanka, (England and Canada) are obviously world famous.
- Taslima Nasrin of Bangladesh got good publicity. But more due to creating controversy than anything else. Muslim (woman), trashing Islam-getting fatwa passed against her, is the easiest way for any Muslim writer to make it big right now - specially if they cannot write well. And her, Rushdie (the only one who can write also), Manji etc. have perfected the art.
(Sidenote: Any female writers on Chowk, who cannot get published should try this route. They will definitely get published and will sell quite a bit, specially in the USA. Especially if they can get a maulvi to pass a fatwa against them.....)
-There are no good thrillers being written in South Asia, anywhere.
- The only journalists of reputation and knowledge from South Asia, in North America, that I know of are Fareed Zakaria and Haroon Siddique.......I am sure there are others.......Ayaz Amir is easily the best writer, amongst journalists in Pakistan.
To make a long story short, none of the above can hold a candle to a Faiz or Iqbal or Bulle Shah or Parveen Shakir......English is clearly a second language in Pakistan.....
Hope this helps......
There isn`t much outside India.
I have been in the process of building a library of South Asian English writers. I pick and chose from Indian writers, however, from everywhere else, specifically Pakistan, I buy whatever is available (becaue there is so little available).
Muneeza Shamsie, a Pakistani literary critic (whatever that means) has authored a book called A Dragonfly in the Sun. It covers the Pakistani literary scene, if you are interested.
Basically, my $.02 on Pakistani authors.
- There are a few young ones coming up, so the scene is only now starting to build up.
- Bapsi Sidhwa is the grandmother of Pakistani English literature. In my opinion, she is bascially average. If that.
- Mohsin Hamid is a talented guy. I put him in the same league as any of the top Indian authors. He is just written one book. But one can see talent in him, like one can see in Irfan Pathan as a bowler.
- Kamila Shamsie is probably no. 2. She is pretty good also, and is one of the better young English writers in England, as far as light romantic tales, with political backgrounds go. I wrote a review on her, on this site, which you can read if you want.
- Everyone else within Pakistan is just good enough to get published. If that. Very ordinary.
- Hanif Kureshi gets the best literary reviews of any Pakistani author outside Pakistan. He is internationally established.
- Tariq Ali is the best debator I have ever seen, in the English language. I have seen him make neo-con after neo-con cry. His political writings are interesting. However, his literary stuff is quite average. Though his fictional books on Islamic history are worth reading, not for their writings, but because they are quite original.
- Ahmad Rashid is the king of books on Central Asia. He is the international authority on the subject. And I believe his Taliban book was no. 1 on Amazon, and may have been the highest selling book, ever, of any author from South Asia.
- The Ondaatje brothers of Sri Lanka, (England and Canada) are obviously world famous.
- Taslima Nasrin of Bangladesh got good publicity. But more due to creating controversy than anything else. Muslim (woman), trashing Islam-getting fatwa passed against her, is the easiest way for any Muslim writer to make it big right now - specially if they cannot write well. And her, Rushdie (the only one who can write also), Manji etc. have perfected the art.
(Sidenote: Any female writers on Chowk, who cannot get published should try this route. They will definitely get published and will sell quite a bit, specially in the USA. Especially if they can get a maulvi to pass a fatwa against them.....)
-There are no good thrillers being written in South Asia, anywhere.
- The only journalists of reputation and knowledge from South Asia, in North America, that I know of are Fareed Zakaria and Haroon Siddique.......I am sure there are others.......Ayaz Amir is easily the best writer, amongst journalists in Pakistan.
To make a long story short, none of the above can hold a candle to a Faiz or Iqbal or Bulle Shah or Parveen Shakir......English is clearly a second language in Pakistan.....
Hope this helps......
#16 Posted by khamkhwa. on June 24, 2004 9:06:43 pm
[and if he is not a punjabi, he should be, coz they are the only intelligent people in india.]
... i am surprised that temporal, jang and nikki...all missed the second line quoted above...the idea was to rile nikki and i find knowledgeable and educated guys falling for my lines... ;)
... i am surprised that temporal, jang and nikki...all missed the second line quoted above...the idea was to rile nikki and i find knowledgeable and educated guys falling for my lines... ;)
#15 Posted by nikki7777 on June 24, 2004 4:20:23 pm
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#14 Posted by Lifta on June 24, 2004 12:36:36 pm
Its kinda informative and detailed for me to read the article as being a member I couldnt attend the convention and the significance was also that it was tenth convention, but seems like I got the most of it.
Just want to mention and condemn the killing of another journalist, Francisco Ortiz Franco, who is recently gunned down while he was driving with his children age under ten. This brutal incidence happened just ten minutes from police station in broad day light. He was the editor of Weekly Zeta, whose founder was killed sixteen years ago besides continuous threats to the staff.
Weekly Zeta is renowned for reporting on the influence of drug traffickers in Tijuana, a city on the US border where several drug gangs are thought to be based.
#13 Posted by jang on June 24, 2004 8:59:59 am
#8 by khamkhwa. on June 23, 2004 6:37pm PT
``nikki7777..
fareed zakaria is a punjabi and a muslim...how can you be proud of``
well his father is a ghati..he was a minister in maharshtra state govt. did he marry a punju?
saima, thanks for the eve gown news. this is to make the point of what we are REALLY interested in. intestingly i am seeing a lot of desis getting a byline in smaller (as compared to Zakaria/Tunku publications) NYT-Boston Globe articles, (some Rajan Mishra, Indira Laxmanan) and then there are all the NPR folks like Chitra Raghavan, Laxmi Singh etc. What i like about Chitra is that she speaks in Indian accent and that is not a problem for NPR. so way to go..
well, one paki journo is hot here in the US..Ahmad Rasheed. But he works out of pakistan, so may not be a SAJA candidate.
so way to go
``nikki7777..
fareed zakaria is a punjabi and a muslim...how can you be proud of``
well his father is a ghati..he was a minister in maharshtra state govt. did he marry a punju?
saima, thanks for the eve gown news. this is to make the point of what we are REALLY interested in. intestingly i am seeing a lot of desis getting a byline in smaller (as compared to Zakaria/Tunku publications) NYT-Boston Globe articles, (some Rajan Mishra, Indira Laxmanan) and then there are all the NPR folks like Chitra Raghavan, Laxmi Singh etc. What i like about Chitra is that she speaks in Indian accent and that is not a problem for NPR. so way to go..
well, one paki journo is hot here in the US..Ahmad Rasheed. But he works out of pakistan, so may not be a SAJA candidate.
so way to go
#12 Posted by drolight on June 24, 2004 6:30:03 am
To see what Padma Lakshmi was wearing click on this link:http://www.tiffinbox.org/2004/06/padma_salman_sa.html
By the way, it was a panel on blogging, not a workshop, though that would be a splendid idea for next year. Thanks for posting this report on the SAJA convention. We`ll try and do better next year.
By the way, it was a panel on blogging, not a workshop, though that would be a splendid idea for next year. Thanks for posting this report on the SAJA convention. We`ll try and do better next year.
#11 Posted by SaimaShah on June 23, 2004 10:57:37 pm
re:#10
Veeresh
No. People in the West tend to be politically correct and mostly the second generation young ones arent so clued into regional politics.
Veeresh
No. People in the West tend to be politically correct and mostly the second generation young ones arent so clued into regional politics.
#10 Posted by veeresh on June 23, 2004 9:29:32 pm
Great lucid readable informative report, thanks. Next year, I want to be there too.
Just curious, did the Kashmir, Nehru-Jinnah, Lahore-Amritsar, Hindu-Muslim and other Indo-Pak ``gunjal`` issues come up, sidelines?
Just curious, did the Kashmir, Nehru-Jinnah, Lahore-Amritsar, Hindu-Muslim and other Indo-Pak ``gunjal`` issues come up, sidelines?
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