Open Letter to Prime Minister Jamali

malik99 #112

you are not the only one who places most if not all the blame on the field marshal, and his `occupying army`. no forgive me `the occupying army.`

having said that, i cannot agree with the idea that there are mullahs so-called or real who do not influence any policy. if such was the case, then there would be more outspokenness about the burgeoning of `political islam` that some of these mullahs espouse, professor khurshid sahib would have either not have made his comments about jihad, or he would have been clearer on what he meant by that (i know jihad isn`t just about violence) . and there would be more crackdowns on jihadis, and not so much appeasement.

my rejoinder to the argument that is going on here meant that the blame does not solely fall on one `institution`. and while `outside forces` may play their part as well, we should not discount our own.

i don`t support the faujis, particularly our bumbling `great dictator`. but i don`t support the corruption in other institutions either. and there is no getting past the fact that corruption exists within some of the mullahs, as well as other institutions. and either that has nothing to do with the faujis, or it feeds right into it. . . .in my humble opinion of course.

Huma Mir...

I lived in the US for four years till 2002 for my College Education ... I didn`t find the discrimination people like you keep harping on about. Nor was I target of any hate crimes... If you don`t act suspicious ... I don`t see why you would be accused of anything. To take this debate into tangents like you and your friend have done is indicative of a diseased mentality. Don`t be naive... when we talk of the Mullah we talk of the MMA and other religious parties who are running amok in Pakistan.

Your friend malik99, to whose defense you have leapt like a desperate mother, has no idea what he is talking about... to him Mullahs are innocent little creatures marching to the Parliament house, driving in their little pajeros... and tilling their lands...

This is a blatantly untrue picture deliberately concocted to take the mullahs off the hook. Mullahs extremely organized, militant and fanatical bunch... they just don`t walk up to the parliament... they burn things on the way.... they are actively involved in Murders, killing, and arson outside the assembly... and they are actively involved in sabotaging progressive legislation within it.


They have sold themselves again and again... to the US, to Ziaul Haq... and to Musharraf...

Why do you think Musharraf prevailed over the democratic norms and procedures to have Mullah Fazlu elected as the opposition leader in the assembly?



If ARMY is a curse for Pakistan... it is because it is actively supported in becoming this curse by none other than the Mullahs...

The Great Urdu Short story writer, Ghulam Abbass wrote a great story in 1967... it was called `Hotel Mohenjodaro`... some of that has already come true in NWFP ... Those who defend Mullahs are merely digging their own grave...


Malik99...

You are a drama ... you are not naive... It is amazing how many of these expats are jumping to the defence of the Mullah... Maybe this is an expat thing... defend the Mullah because after all we are all Mullahs for the US...


THE QUESTION that you refuse to answer is :

[B] We know where the RICH people got their money but WHERE did the Mullahs get their money from ? [/B]


They DON`T drive Pajeros like the feudals (Pajeros costs only 1/3rd of the CARS they drive i.e. LAND CRUISERS, GRAND CRUISERS, PRADOS, ETC).... and they don`t own Lands... or Factories or mills... nor are they corrupt bureaucrats... nor are they famous doctors, or lawyers or engineers....


So where does the money for Grand Cruisers, SSRXs , Surfs etc come from?

The style on Chowk has always been to avoid the real issue... the real issue is one... the existence of Mullah in a religion which is not supposed to have any mullahs. These Mullahs are a curse not just for Pakistan but for Islam itself.


They sold themselves to the US... now they are selling themselves to the Army... tommorow they will sell themselves to India...


-YLH

PS:

Perhaps... Malik99... you forgot to see the Camps of Militants that are there in Akora Khatak...

2 Years ago the Mullahs boasted of 1 million strong force... the Mullah just doesn`t march to the parliament house... in other parts of Pakistan he is actively involved in targetted killing, murder, arson, and rape... You keep trying to protect the Mullahs... and you try to compare it to the state sanctioned Pakistan Army ... who despite all its flaws and evils and there are many... is Pakistan`s official army...


There is NO LOGIC in your statements... just a desire to prove that your mullahs are right... Remember it is the MULLAHS who have saved and protected the Army rule... not once but 3 times... Most of us don`t like to admit it but even Ayub Khan`s regime coopted the Mullahs ... Yahya Khan used them as `Al Badar and Al Shams`... and let us not forget Zia`s regime .... As for Musharraf... his LFO got passed only BECAUSE these SELL OUT mullahs helped him.


The Mullah is the pawn always... if he is the holy sanction of Illegitimate Military Rule... then lets take out the Mullah... who sells Islam for Land cruisers and Grand Cruisers..

#78 by Urstruly on June 27, 2004 8:37pm PT

”Salzar

My neighbor swears that begum sehba musharaf is a quadiani. She was his neighbor at Hyderabad and was a schoolteacher when Mushsraf proposed.”


Sheer foolishness of our deluded mullah knows no bounds. Here the country is going to hell … and our resident imam is losing sleep over which way the dictator’s wife faces when praying. And they want to be in charge of running the country. WTF???

... And these are the same village idiots who are seen arguing at the JFK with the PIA crew … insisting that a lotta should not count as a carry-on item ……… and yes … your airhostess … that “nau jawan larki, huma …” does not give a flip about your brother-in-law working in UAE …… nor how often you visit him ... and how many times you performed ummrah while you were there … so shut the $%^# up …

feroz:

Yes, we do disagree.

my last post to you was written to show 1) your contradiction when you say you support the buiding of institutions. and 2) to ask why and how the presidential system would be any better. In your last post addressed to me, you did not refute 1) nor did you provide an answer to 2).

Anyhow, we all know how screwed up Pakistan is. it has all the classic attributes of a banana republic.

Yes, politicians have screwed institutions. But their role has been far less negative. If NS`s gundas stormed the Supreme Court, the Faujiz have stormed the entire country and ripped up the Constitution at will. They`ve done ten times worse.

My whole argument (as these are mere arguments for ideas) is based on dissing those policies and entities that crush institutional development. And no one does more so than Faujiz.

Regardless, one should not give up hope, as the more the faujiz tinker the sooner the fauji-created edifice will come crumbling down.

While some chowkies cheer for his every act, Pakistan Bar Council has other ideas.
From ``The Times``


PBC approves Musharraf’s ‘trial’ for treason

By Mohammad Kamran

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Bar Council will conduct a ‘shadow trial’ of President Pervez Musharraf under Article 6 for ‘subverting’ the Constitution of 1973 and for the military coup of October 12, 1999.

The chief justice of Pakistan and a veteran constitutional expert will also be tried, the PBC decided at its 147th meeting on Monday. All the representative members of the bar attended the PBC meeting and the decision was endorsed unanimously.

“General Pervez Musharraf, Irshad Hasan Khan and Syed Sharifuddin Pirzada will be tried under Article 6 of the Constitution of 1973 in a high-treason case for abrogating the Constitution by abusing their authority and expertise,” a source who attended the meeting told Daily Times. The trial committee has been asked to finalise the modalities for the trial within a month, sources said.

“The purpose of this exercise is to set a precedent to warn all prospective dictators,” a meeting participant said. The trial will likely be in early August, said the sources. They added that the panel of jurists, prosecutor general and attorneys were being finalised.

I hate to be the one defending mullahs, but Malik99`s argument seems to carry a perfect logic. If mantolives is going to make broad statements like ``mullahs are rich``, ``mullahs are bastards``, or ``mullahs drive land cruisers``, then unfortunately he exposes himself to broad statements from others as well. A non-pajero owning mullah would be just as infuriated if he were to read mantolives statements :) So in that way, Malik99`s statement simply seems to show the other side of the picture, i think.

Having lived in US for many years, I too have developed an intense hatered towards these broad general statements which casts an entire group of people in the same net. An example of which Mantolives would find if he were to visit US is that americans these days are making broad statements as well. They are saying ``muslims are terrorists``. Pure and simple!! No distinctions and no qualifications. Even within Pakistan I have seen people making broad statements like calling christians ``jamadaars`` or ``choorah`` - even though a vast majority of them are not associated with that profession. But the intent is to not cause our brains much work in taking individuals at their own merit and simply cast them all in one lump.

nooralain # 103 - you wrote ``the `blame the mullahs` for ALL the ills in pakistani society is just as interesting as blaming it ALL on the faujis or the `occupying army`.``

I agree that at times I have gotten carried away in blaming the Field Marshal. But I do acknowledge the fact that not ALL ills in Pakistan are due to dictator. In fact many of these ills have been there even before the dictator`s family immigrated to Pakistan.

However, I am sure you would agree that there is a huge distinction between the so-called mullahs (who may or may not influence any policy just like any other folks in the country) and a dictator who single handedly determines the course of a nation of 140 million. A mullah may get hold of a few protestors, march to parliament building and then get diperssed by tear gas. Contrast that to a dictator who commands army to surround a region in his own country, attack that region with gunship helicopters killing women and children, and lets foreign secret agencies roam free in his country.

So I am sure you would agree that the buck stops with the dictator more so than it does it with mullahs or any other people in Pakistan. Especially so since armed dictators have ruled Pakistan for more than half of its existance.

Malik99...


The truth is that even those people who do drive the big cars and live in luxury... we know where their money comes from.... they are either professionals, feudals, industrialists or extremely corrupt... Question that you fail to ask... is how these MULLAHS have the money to buy cars that until recently cost more than a 1 crore rupees in Pakistan... they are not feudals, professionals, industrialists or in positions where they can be extremely corrupt... most of them own really shabby madrassahs.. then how the hell are they so rich?

Mullahs are B@stards... they are the real enemies of this country... people like you put a cover on them... and protect them. Pick up any problem in Pakistan and you will find a mullah behind it. There is no analogy with blame on RAW or Mossad... RAW or Mossad act in their own national interest.... Mullahs act in the interest of others...


Shame on you... and shame on you for writing that disgusting post ...

-YLH

HP:

``I know in my student days, and a very short lived political life in Pakistan, People constantly considered me and people like me anti-Pakistan. We were often told to go to India.``

I can understand u being called anti--akistan but not pro-India. In fact it seems like you are more the son of the soil type Sindhi nationalist.

Another shining example of Musharaf`s democratic Pakistan. Get set to be ruled by a man who`s urdu is harder to understand then Benazir`s and who`s take is slightly Asif Zaradari`s infamous 10%. And then in 45 days after the Jat from Gujrat has had his name written in the history books as Prime Minister of Pakistan we will then be handed over to the banker from Manhattan. The Prime Ministership has a sort of used car ring to it. Musharaf sure was right when he said this government will complete its five years the bugger forgot to mention he will give every member of the National Assembly a chance to be ``Chief Executive``. The cricket board is run by a chief executive the army is run by a chief executive and the nation is run by a chief executive. Atleast the SOB introduced the masses of Pakistan to the term ``CEO``. Oh and by the way to the person who says our economy is going in the right direction- Pakistan`s exports fell in the first quarter this year compared to the same time last year, our foreign exchange reserves are dependant on workers who now are forced to send their remittances via banks because the hawala system has been outlawed, we have 30 % or so unemployment, inflation is climbing and climbing need i say more. Anyways enough facts and pessimisim lets take a deep breath and think of the coming Musharaf`s Pakistani utopia.

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the `blame the mullahs` for ALL the ills in pakistani society is just as interesting as blaming it ALL on the faujis or the `occupying army`. i say let`s blame it primarily on `the nexus` and then move from there. kya khyal hai? ; ) (hate doing the wink, but can`t help it. if you can`t beat `em, join `em?)

BTW - its NOT that i am pro-mullah. Its just that blaming all economic, cultural, defense, environmental, conjugal, health, technological issues and erectile dysfunctions on mullahs stales the debate and does not help move forward with finding the solution.

So yeah, there ARE some mullahs who drive Pajero and may have some land and have send their children to US schools. But here is where you seem to get narrow-visioned - there is an OVERWHELMINGLY large number of elites, who ACTUALLY have run the whole country, have run it to ground, own the whole towns and villages, suppress their people, hinder progress - YET you do not see them!

How incredible !!

mantolives # 100 - you wrote ``And you have a problem with the family sedan I drive that I have on HIRE PURCHASE ?? or the house I am going to buy through a bank loan? I don`t drive Jaguars or Mercedes either... but if I ever will own one it will be from my own blood and sweat... ``

So there ARE people like you who ACTUALLY work hard!!! How wrong of me to have painted you with the rest with one broad brush !!

Now only if you would drop your own broad brush and stop blaming every single issue on Mullahs. Its no different than Mullahs blaming everything on RAW and Mossad.