Open Letter to Prime Minister Jamali

romair..
[(at that point, I think all Canadian Punjabis in these ridings, should start a freedom struggle and fight for an independent country, like Quebec, called Can-Punjabistan. It would become the only country in the world with Punjabi as the official language).]

... i won`t comment on your political expertise...it must have been a sad day for pak army to let you go. you are it`s brightest star...

Malik99...

Manto`s letters to uncle Sam are widely read and show his political foresight. He knew in 1954 that Mullahs were being bought and sold by America...

To each his own... I personally found nothing pornographic in Manto`s writings... I became interested in him when I came across his work which is perhaps the best tribute to M. A. Jinnah written in any language ... `Mera Sahab`... it must be remembered that Manto was not a gung ho Pakistani, so his tribute was perhaps the most unbiased and realistic that I have come across. I also read many of his stories on partition etc... but it was his letters to uncle sam which really caught my attention after that.


Sad that you`ve treated the great writer`s work as mere pornography. His Mullah Bashing is much more important.

-YLH

Malik99:

``Although my father was a POW as a result of that war...``

Really? If you don`t mind saying this, what was your father`s opinion on his stay in India, they way he was treated etc?

dost-mittar #151: ``...more on canada elections and panjabis:``

I had submitted an article relating to differences between US and Canada. However, I have recently been quite critical of various aspects of Chowk, so I am not sure whether I am in Chowk Staffs` (Staff`s ?) good books, any longer :-) So, unlike your long list of articles, I don`t know whether mine will get published.....If it does, then that may be a good area to get a discussion going on Canadian politics.

``if Wajid is a panjabi, then add another to the panjabi list.``

http://www.mississauga.com/mi/elections/story/2037012p-2357170c.html

Wajid looks like (and is named like) a Pathan. But he is a Punjabi, from Lahore, and speaks fluent Punjabi. He spoke it regularly during his campaign. My guess his is a Pathan family that migrated to Punjab, sometime back (like Imran Khan`s).

I don`t have exact statistics, but based on the, political ``gup shup`` during the campaign, the Western suburbs of Toronto are now Desiland. Mississauga has four ridings, (and a fifth that is shared with adjacent Brampton) out of which two are heavily influenced by Pakistani votes. The real Pakistani base is not in Wajid`s riding. It is in an adjacent riding. That riding elected Carolin Parish, who had recently made the famous comment about, ``Americans being b@stards.`` It was criticized heavily, but she still won by a landslide, even bigger than Wajid`s. I guess she knew what she was doing when she made the comment. Perhaps appealing to the Pakistani votebase.

Brampton has two ridings, (and the additional one that it shares with Mississauga). It is Sardarji country, who won two out of the three seats - including a complete landslide by the Liberal Sardarji who had joined hands with our campaign. He had the largest landslide in the area. This is the guy with the kirpan, and he completely blew away his opponent. I guess he knew what he was doing also, kirpan and all, much like Parish.

So, basically out of the eight ridings, three elected Punjabis. And a fourth is in control of Pakistani voters (primarily Punjabis). I have a feeling, that if India-Pakistan settle their differences, then a desi Liberal candidate may be undefeatable in all eight of these ridings, pretty soon (at that point, I think all Canadian Punjabis in these ridings, should start a freedom struggle and fight for an independent country, like Quebec, called Can-Punjabistan. It would become the only country in the world with Punjabi as the official language).

The desi vote seems to consist of three groups, with some overlaps, depending on the ethnicity of the candidate. Desis are primarily Liberal party voters. The are divided into the Pakistani/Muslim vote, Sardarji/Punjabi vote, Indian/Hindu vote.

If the candidate is Liberal and desi, and the opposing candidate is non-desi, then all desis vote for that candidate together. Thus, it is pretty much impossible for a desi Liberal candidate, with a non-desi opposition, to lose in much of this area. To counter this, the non-Liberal parties have also started nominating desis, from different ethnic communities, (and sometimes even from the same community), to counter and divide the Liberal desi votebank.

So it is now common to see both (or even three) candidates being desi. In our cases, the Liberals nominated Wajid - a Pakistani Muslim in a riding with a prominent Pakistani + Muslim (Arabs etc.) votebase. The Conservative party, to split the desi vote, nominated an India-origin Hindu (though not born in India) candidate. The NDP nominated a Sikh guy (not sure if he was Sikh or Hindu).

This split the desi vote. All the Pakistanis and Muslims, regardless of party affiliations, voted for the Liberals. All the Hindu Indians, regarless of party affiliations, voted for the Conservative candidate. The Sikh vote got split into three parts. The NDP candidate got it because he was Sikh(?). The Conservative candidate got it because she was of Indian origin. And the Liberal candidate got it, because he was Punjabi, and because Sikhs normally vote Liberal.

So the no 1, 2, and 3 (Liberal, Conservative and NDP) positions in our riding went to desis. Two out of three of whom, I believe were Punjabis. The two gora candidates were fourth and fifth, and got nothing. I think (seriously) I could have gotten more votes than these two.

Anyways, since you have the inside track to Chowk Staff, maybe you can write something on Canadian politics, until I am out of their bad books :-)

mantolives #157 - you write ``I agree that Manto was a logical person... that is why he was the most brilliant mullah-basher amongst other things.``

He made his name in writing FICTION !!!!

Besides, he sounded pretty logical to me in those long teenage winter nights in Pakistan when i could hide in my bed and read his novels to gratify my surging hormones. Many of my friends swear to this day that Manto`s writings were responsible for ushering in their puberty sooner than what nature had intended.

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Malik99,

``I have read Manto. Manto was a pretty logical person.``

First thing I agree with you on...

I agree that Manto was a logical person... that is why he was the most brilliant mullah-basher amongst other things. May I recommend his Letters to Uncle Sam... in which he warns us against America`s successful purchase of the Mullahs as early as 1951...


To quote from Manto`s third letter to Uncle Sam:

``I think the only purpose of this Military aid is to arm the Mullahs... if this gang of mullahs is armed in the American style, the Soviet Union that hawks Communism and Socialism in our country will have to shut shop. I can visualize the mullahs, their hair trimmed with American scissors and their pyjamas stiched with American machines in strict conformity with the Sharia The stones they use after drops of you know what will be American, untouched by Human hand, and their prayer mats would be American too. ``

Third Letter to Uncle Sam... Dated 21st Feb 1954



I knew you would see the light.

-YLH

``I found a lot of factual errors. On page 43 and 44, Crile refers to the Hall of Fame football player, Mike Ditka, as a linebacker. Ditka played tight end``

Mike Ditka was a Defensive LineBacker from 1958-60 at University of Pittsburgh (Panthers), but was drafted by the Chicago Bears in the first round of the 1961 NFL Draft with the fifth overall pick as a TightEnd.

Mantolives - you wrote ``Errors aside it gives us a good view of what the Americans were upto against the communists``

``errors aside``?????? Back to your broad brush ways? What if I say ``their un-islamic practices aside, mullahs are pretty good for islam`` ? How is that for a tit-for-tat logic?

I seriously think you should change your nick. I have read Manto. Manto was a pretty logical person. And you are no body to remind us that he lives. In fact I have heard through grapevine that demons in hell are torturing him by repeatedly making him listen to your arguments.

ferozk#149 - you wrote ``In my view, the Indians did us a huge favor by throughly discrediting the army in 1971 and after that, for once the Pakistani army had relearned the charms of the barrack life. I will always give the devil his due, but in this case I personally hold Z. A. Bhutto responsible for bringing the army back into politics, when he dispatched it to Baluchistan in early 1970s.``

Although my father was a POW as a result of that war, I very much agree with you. Army has been corrupted and abused by its own leadership. Army is supposed to protect its civilians from outside forces and not itself become a monster to them. From 1971, to siachin glacier conflict to the kargil debacle, army has taken a drubbing from our neighbour, yet its our own civilians who end up becoming its victims time and time again.

#9 by rozaiba

+++
It seems that what to watch out for now is WHO gets unseated from a Punjab constituency
+++

Most probably it will be Rao Sikander Iqbal`s seat from Okara (NA-144). The rumour is that Rao Sikander will resign as Defence Minister and replace Lt.Gen. Khalid Maqbool as Governor of Punjab.

Shaukat Aziz will contest from Rao`s vacant seat and will easily win because of PML-Q and Rao Sikander`s support. The NA will then elect him as Prime Minister within 50 days.

ferozk,

that was a good post. and i agree with much that you have to say.

n~

Malik99,

Thrilling tom clancy novel style or not... there is no denying that as a US Congressman Charlie Wilson was actively involved in Afghan War. Errors aside it gives us a good view of what the Americans were upto against the communists, and how Mullahs sold their souls to the devil. I am not a fan of Charlie Wilson, but I have no reason to doubt his version as it is confirmed by many sources in our own government.

Clearly you have no argument... affirmations from your friends aside. The point was simple that Mullahs are sell outs ready to sell Pakistan off for their own benefits. You are hell bent on drawing tangents just to prove your point... case in point... the waste of bit space on the issue of Mike Bikta`s Position on the American football field. That has no bearing on the point that is being made here. It just goes to show that you will latch onto to prove your point, though it is unclear what your point is.


-YLH

...more on canada elections and panjabis:

[if Wajid is a panjabi, then add another to the panjabi list. BTW the list does not include Rahim Jaffar or Deepak Obhrai who are from Uganda, although Obhrai sounds like a panjabi khatri name. I am personally not enthused with the spectacle of MPs with kirpans dangling from their sides!]


Now, Punjabis storm Canadian parliament
GUR KIRPAL SINGH ASHK

TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ TUESDAY, JUNE 29, 2004 11:03:54 PM ]

PATIALA: Trust Punjabis to be in the thick of political action. And not just the usual Badals and Amarinders.

A Bains, a Grewal and a Malhi are among eight Punjabis who have managed to secure a seat in the 308-member Canadian Parliament.

In a startling reflection on the changing demographic profile of the north American country, three candidates from the state of Ontario actually triumphed over other Punjabis.

Gurbakhash Malhi from Bramalea-Gore-Malton beat Ravinder Gill, Ruby Dhalla bagged the Brampton-Springdale seat against Sulakhan Hundal while Navdeep Singh Bains won the Mississauga Brampton South seat defeating Parvinder Sandhu. All the winners were backed by the Liberal Party.

Malhi, who hails from Kishanpura village of Moga district, was the first turbaned man to enter the Canadian Parliament back in 1993. His performance has seen him return four times.

Bains, on the other hand, would be the first Sikh MP slinging a kirpan. ``I have campaigned hard to get elected. People don`t have any problem with me wearing a kirpan. I don`t see any problem arising on the issue,`` he told TNN from Toronto.

Three Punjabi candidates won from British Columbia: Ujjal Dosanjh, and the husband-wife duo of Nina and Gurmant Grewal. Gurmant belongs to Ludhiana and is a former student of Punjab Agricultural University.

It`s quite ironic that Ujjal Dosanjh`s grandfather was one of the passengers of Kamagatamaru which was not allowed to dock in British Columbia. He, in turn, became the first Indo-Canadian premier of British Columbia. A close confidant of Canadian prime minister Paul Martin, he is expected to be inducted into the Cabinet.

mantolives - About the book ``Charlie Wilson`s Wars`` that you keep harping about - I read it when it came out last year. And I find it a Texan tall tale perspective of history written in the style and thrill of a Tom Clancy novel. The inflated role of Joana Herring, her alleged affair with Zia, as well as Charlie Wilson have not been corroborated by other books on the similar topic. It has some good analysis, some interesting details on the inside workings of congress, a lot of imagery thrown in with good measure of accurate facts. It was timed to release when americans were once again busy in Afghanistan. Not a bad recipe to sell a book. But it did pretty badly, even in the circles with direct interest in Afghanistan.

I found a lot of factual errors. On page 43 and 44, Crile refers to the Hall of Fame football player, Mike Ditka, as a linebacker. Ditka played tight end. Although this mistake does not change the point the author was trying to make. But what happened to the ``check every fact before using it in your story`` lesson taught in the same journalism class?

As a reader put it ``I know a little about football; I know nothing about CIA Appropriations or the Mujahideen. Why should I believe Crile`s reporting is any more credible?``

Not a serious read for a person looking for objective, accurate and serious analysis of the afghan cnflict of 80s. But perhaps a VERY interesting read for someone who craves tabloid style ``elvis is alive`` kind of news.

re: HP # 93

My understanding of Pakistani politics comes from bitter personal experience. I know when the daggers come out and I know, how the daggers are used with faces that smile all time. I look at the politics from an outsider`s eye and not as a Pakistani with a direct stake in politics. If I am objective, it might be due to the fact that I have no faith in our elected or non-elected representives who govern over us. I grew up in a time (yes, there was a such time in Pakistan once) when politics was not personalized and politicans would be best of friends and would curse each other during the day and drink whisky and laugh together at night.

I agree with you that we are nothing more than a mutual debating society in Pakistan and we have always placed our narrow self interests before the nation. My idealism died a long time ago. Still I have a very high level of admiration and respect for people like Rozaiba and others, who believe in Pakistan. Rozaiba and I will always disagree on this issue, but I still wish all the best.

In my view, the Indians did us a huge favor by throughly discrediting the army in 1971 and after that, for once the Pakistani army had relearned the charms of the barrack life. I will always give the devil his due, but in this case I personally hold Z. A. Bhutto responsible for bringing the army back into politics, when he dispatched it to Baluchistan in early 1970s. I have talked to a few people, who were in the army and each has talked about the lack of will in the army to get reinvolved in politics. Thanks to the generals, who brought Bhutto to power by out maneuvering Yahya Khan, the army ended up in Baluchistan and regained its taste for politics. Bhutto wanted a pliant military COAS and he chose Zia-ul-Haq, but he was willing to tolerate Zia`s submissive nature even though Zia had started to drum up the role of religion in the army.

There is a reason, why the bureaucracy of the that time called Zia a ``regimental mullah``. The wife of a bureaucrat, who later became a defense secretary and profitted from the sale of military contacts to a Gulf nation, once remarked that Zia looked like the British actor Terry Thomas when he first appeared on PTV in July 1977. Her husband`s remarks were, ``...for God`s sake shut up!``

Pakistan has been ruled by the issuance of ordinances for most its life and it makes no difference as to whose conduct is more awful; the military or the civilians. The facile comparision, which many engage in, is as futile as comparing two cancers. It makes no difference, which is less of an evil, because in the end, neither are really good for your health.

Pakistani liberals can wrest all the power they wish from the military and it will make no difference, because the liberals in Pakistan do not have the benefit of any principles. The liberals in Pakistan, will always end up losing the debate and the struggle, because they have failed in their basic task of articulating their stance in Pakistani politics. The liberals, for reasons which only they know best, left the field open to the clery. The liberals have still not been able to refute the allegation that secularism is akin to athesism and as long as they are afraid to bravely define secularism and be willing to be identified with it, there is no hope for any liberalized nature of goverance in Pakistan. Pakistan`s so-called secular and mainstream parties have always jumped into bed, with the mullahs when it suited their unholy urges and in the end, outcome of this unnatural act of copluation was a political bastard that mocks Pakistan to this day.

When so-called secular liberal parties of Pakistan and the so devout clery are ready to forego their principles and sin for sake of a political gratification, the result is not politics but the mannerism of a whorehouse, which takes precedence over everything else.

There is nothing for me to be cheerful about in Pakistan.

Ciao