Open Letter to Prime Minister Jamali

dost-mittar #119: ``Congratulations on Wajid`s victory. (btw, it`s vive le canada!)``

Thanks. He ended up getting more than 50% of the total vote. So I think this area may be his for a while. I am still shaky on the French....

``The senator is Mobin Jaffer``

I assume you are talking about Mobina Jaffer. I knew about her. Didn`t know about the elected guy. Thanks for the info.

Ijaz_gul #122: ``Good! Well done!!
Your expression in the post reflects your joy and glee. Do you know Azmat Hayat Khan an ex aeronautical engineer living in Canada?``

Thanks. It was well worth the effort. Though, my contribution was minor. I just did labor type work, for a few days. The real credit goes to his team, which had been working and planning his campaign for a long time. The working atmosphere was great. Rang barange loog. He talked with me a couple of times. My first impression of him and his wife is quite positive.

I do not recall Azmat Hayat. But I could probably track him down, if I can get more info.

Mantolives #117: ``So secularism is working perfectly in Canada... isn`t it?``

Yes, secularism is working well in Canada (though not so well in some countries also), and suits the country well, since it is based on solid human rights here. However this victory had more to do with many factors, other than secularism (Pakistanis, by virtue of their voting power alone are now a force in the area and should now be able to get two or more seats in the future).

``I join you Romair... in saying Viva Le Canada!``

Canada is truly a unique place. No doubt about it. I am now fully convinced that my initial hunches about the place were correct.USA is a secular country also. Pakistanis are getting screened unnecessarily there and are on the defensive, while they are getting to the highest offices in Canada. I cannot imagine any Pakistani reaching this level in the USA in the next twenty-five to fifty or more years. I doubt this guy could have even have come close to winning in Pakistan, had he run against the Jamalis and the Bhuttos and the Legharis, etc. Yet here he is, sitting in the highest offices of a G-8 country.

We are waiting to see whether he gets a ministry. My guess is he should have a chance. He is a very presentable Muslim figure, with a strong vote-bank and a cultural background that is needed by any Western govt. Not to mention, apparently a close friend of the current PM (who actually visited the campaign three or four days ago).

Malik99

Once again... I did not run out of arguments... there was no point about bringing in the rich people. We know their crimes... very well...The issue was of the purchaseability of the Mullah and I think it is settled that the Mullah (i.e. the religious parties of Pakistan) is the biggest sell out in Pakistan. Using the term broad again and again will not prove your point or Huma Mir`s.

Thanks for informing me about what a US professor will or will not do... though I was never thrown out of any of my classes... thankfuly... nor did any of my political science professors walk out on me... or the logic professor for that matter.


But thanks anyway...


-YLH

Nikki ...

``a mad islamist could knife you while crying ``allah-o-akbar` or something like that man........``

Yaar... Tell it to the Mullah supporters who think Mullahs are harmless walking down to the parliament and engaging in Bhook hartal. As if Blasphemy issue never happened in Pakistan... if women wearing jeans or going out to vote in NWFP are not slapped in Public... as if there is no sectarian violence in Pakistan.


These Mullah supporters live in denial...

-YLH

Well! to lighten up this thread and talk about Canada at the same time…

“An elderly woman lived on a small farm in Canada, just yards away from the North Dakota border. Their land had been the subject of a minor dispute between the United States and Canada for years. The, now widowed, woman lived on the farm with her son and three grandchildren.
One day, her son came into her room holding a letter. ``I just got some news, Mom,`` he said.
``The government has come to an agreement with the people in North Dakota. They`ve decided that our land is really part of the United States. We have the right to approve or disapprove of the agreement. What do you think?``
``What do I think?`` his mother said.
``Sign it! Call them right now and tell them we accept. I don`t think I could stand another one of those Canadian winters!``

re: HP # 93

My understanding of Pakistani politics comes from bitter personal experience. I know when the daggers come out and I know, how the daggers are used with faces that smile all time. I look at the politics from an outsider`s eye and not as a Pakistani with a direct stake in politics. If I am objective, it might be due to the fact that I have no faith in our elected or non-elected representives who govern over us. I grew up in a time (yes, there was a such time in Pakistan once) when politics was not personalized and politicans would be best of friends and would curse each other during the day and drink whisky and laugh together at night.

I agree with you that we are nothing more than a mutual debating society in Pakistan and we have always placed our narrow self interests before the nation. My idealism died a long time ago. Still I have a very high level of admiration and respect for people like Rozaiba and others, who believe in Pakistan. Rozaiba and I will always disagree on this issue, but I still wish all the best.

In my view, the Indians did us a huge favor by throughly discrediting the army in 1971 and after that, for once the Pakistani army had relearned the charms of the barrack life. I will always give the devil his due, but in this case I personally hold Z. A. Bhutto responsible for bringing the army back into politics, when he dispatched it to Baluchistan in early 1970s. I have talked to a few people, who were in the army and each has talked about the lack of will in the army to get reinvolved in politics. Thanks to the generals, who brought Bhutto to power by out maneuvering Yahya Khan, the army ended up in Baluchistan and regained its taste for politics. Bhutto wanted a pliant military COAS and he chose Zia-ul-Haq, but he was willing to tolerate Zia`s submissive nature even though Zia had started to drum up the role of religion in the army.

There is a reason, why the bureaucracy of the that time called Zia a ``regimental mullah``. The wife of a bureaucrat, who later became a defense secretary and profitted from the sale of military contacts to a Gulf nation, once remarked that Zia looked like the British actor Terry Thomas when he first appeared on PTV in July 1977. Her husband`s remarks were, ``...for God`s sake shut up!``

Pakistan has been ruled by the issuance of ordinances for most its life and it makes no difference as to whose conduct is more awful; the military or the civilians. The facile comparision, which many engage in, is as futile as comparing two cancers. It makes no difference, which is less of an evil, because in the end, neither are really good for your health.

Pakistani liberals can wrest all the power they wish from the military and it will make no difference, because the liberals in Pakistan do not have the benefit of any principles. The liberals in Pakistan, will always end up losing the debate and the struggle, because they have failed in their basic task of articulating their stance in Pakistani politics. The liberals, for reasons which only they know best, left the field open to the clery. The liberals have still not been able to refute the allegation that secularism is akin to athesism and as long as they are afraid to bravely define secularism and be willing to be identified with it, there is no hope for any liberalized nature of goverance in Pakistan. Pakistan`s so-called secular and mainstream parties have always jumped into bed, with the mullahs when it suited their unholy urges and in the end, outcome of this unnatural act of copluation was a political bastard that mocks Pakistan to this day.

When so-called secular liberal parties of Pakistan and the so devout clery are ready to forego their principles and sin for sake of a political gratification, the result is not politics but the mannerism of a whorehouse, which takes precedence over everything else.

There is nothing for me to be cheerful about in Pakistan.

Ciao

mantolives - About the book ``Charlie Wilson`s Wars`` that you keep harping about - I read it when it came out last year. And I find it a Texan tall tale perspective of history written in the style and thrill of a Tom Clancy novel. The inflated role of Joana Herring, her alleged affair with Zia, as well as Charlie Wilson have not been corroborated by other books on the similar topic. It has some good analysis, some interesting details on the inside workings of congress, a lot of imagery thrown in with good measure of accurate facts. It was timed to release when americans were once again busy in Afghanistan. Not a bad recipe to sell a book. But it did pretty badly, even in the circles with direct interest in Afghanistan.

I found a lot of factual errors. On page 43 and 44, Crile refers to the Hall of Fame football player, Mike Ditka, as a linebacker. Ditka played tight end. Although this mistake does not change the point the author was trying to make. But what happened to the ``check every fact before using it in your story`` lesson taught in the same journalism class?

As a reader put it ``I know a little about football; I know nothing about CIA Appropriations or the Mujahideen. Why should I believe Crile`s reporting is any more credible?``

Not a serious read for a person looking for objective, accurate and serious analysis of the afghan cnflict of 80s. But perhaps a VERY interesting read for someone who craves tabloid style ``elvis is alive`` kind of news.

...more on canada elections and panjabis:

[if Wajid is a panjabi, then add another to the panjabi list. BTW the list does not include Rahim Jaffar or Deepak Obhrai who are from Uganda, although Obhrai sounds like a panjabi khatri name. I am personally not enthused with the spectacle of MPs with kirpans dangling from their sides!]


Now, Punjabis storm Canadian parliament
GUR KIRPAL SINGH ASHK

TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ TUESDAY, JUNE 29, 2004 11:03:54 PM ]

PATIALA: Trust Punjabis to be in the thick of political action. And not just the usual Badals and Amarinders.

A Bains, a Grewal and a Malhi are among eight Punjabis who have managed to secure a seat in the 308-member Canadian Parliament.

In a startling reflection on the changing demographic profile of the north American country, three candidates from the state of Ontario actually triumphed over other Punjabis.

Gurbakhash Malhi from Bramalea-Gore-Malton beat Ravinder Gill, Ruby Dhalla bagged the Brampton-Springdale seat against Sulakhan Hundal while Navdeep Singh Bains won the Mississauga Brampton South seat defeating Parvinder Sandhu. All the winners were backed by the Liberal Party.

Malhi, who hails from Kishanpura village of Moga district, was the first turbaned man to enter the Canadian Parliament back in 1993. His performance has seen him return four times.

Bains, on the other hand, would be the first Sikh MP slinging a kirpan. ``I have campaigned hard to get elected. People don`t have any problem with me wearing a kirpan. I don`t see any problem arising on the issue,`` he told TNN from Toronto.

Three Punjabi candidates won from British Columbia: Ujjal Dosanjh, and the husband-wife duo of Nina and Gurmant Grewal. Gurmant belongs to Ludhiana and is a former student of Punjab Agricultural University.

It`s quite ironic that Ujjal Dosanjh`s grandfather was one of the passengers of Kamagatamaru which was not allowed to dock in British Columbia. He, in turn, became the first Indo-Canadian premier of British Columbia. A close confidant of Canadian prime minister Paul Martin, he is expected to be inducted into the Cabinet.

Malik99,

Thrilling tom clancy novel style or not... there is no denying that as a US Congressman Charlie Wilson was actively involved in Afghan War. Errors aside it gives us a good view of what the Americans were upto against the communists, and how Mullahs sold their souls to the devil. I am not a fan of Charlie Wilson, but I have no reason to doubt his version as it is confirmed by many sources in our own government.

Clearly you have no argument... affirmations from your friends aside. The point was simple that Mullahs are sell outs ready to sell Pakistan off for their own benefits. You are hell bent on drawing tangents just to prove your point... case in point... the waste of bit space on the issue of Mike Bikta`s Position on the American football field. That has no bearing on the point that is being made here. It just goes to show that you will latch onto to prove your point, though it is unclear what your point is.


-YLH

ferozk,

that was a good post. and i agree with much that you have to say.

n~

#9 by rozaiba

+++
It seems that what to watch out for now is WHO gets unseated from a Punjab constituency
+++

Most probably it will be Rao Sikander Iqbal`s seat from Okara (NA-144). The rumour is that Rao Sikander will resign as Defence Minister and replace Lt.Gen. Khalid Maqbool as Governor of Punjab.

Shaukat Aziz will contest from Rao`s vacant seat and will easily win because of PML-Q and Rao Sikander`s support. The NA will then elect him as Prime Minister within 50 days.

ferozk#149 - you wrote ``In my view, the Indians did us a huge favor by throughly discrediting the army in 1971 and after that, for once the Pakistani army had relearned the charms of the barrack life. I will always give the devil his due, but in this case I personally hold Z. A. Bhutto responsible for bringing the army back into politics, when he dispatched it to Baluchistan in early 1970s.``

Although my father was a POW as a result of that war, I very much agree with you. Army has been corrupted and abused by its own leadership. Army is supposed to protect its civilians from outside forces and not itself become a monster to them. From 1971, to siachin glacier conflict to the kargil debacle, army has taken a drubbing from our neighbour, yet its our own civilians who end up becoming its victims time and time again.

Mantolives - you wrote ``Errors aside it gives us a good view of what the Americans were upto against the communists``

``errors aside``?????? Back to your broad brush ways? What if I say ``their un-islamic practices aside, mullahs are pretty good for islam`` ? How is that for a tit-for-tat logic?

I seriously think you should change your nick. I have read Manto. Manto was a pretty logical person. And you are no body to remind us that he lives. In fact I have heard through grapevine that demons in hell are torturing him by repeatedly making him listen to your arguments.

``I found a lot of factual errors. On page 43 and 44, Crile refers to the Hall of Fame football player, Mike Ditka, as a linebacker. Ditka played tight end``

Mike Ditka was a Defensive LineBacker from 1958-60 at University of Pittsburgh (Panthers), but was drafted by the Chicago Bears in the first round of the 1961 NFL Draft with the fifth overall pick as a TightEnd.

Malik99,

``I have read Manto. Manto was a pretty logical person.``

First thing I agree with you on...

I agree that Manto was a logical person... that is why he was the most brilliant mullah-basher amongst other things. May I recommend his Letters to Uncle Sam... in which he warns us against America`s successful purchase of the Mullahs as early as 1951...


To quote from Manto`s third letter to Uncle Sam:

``I think the only purpose of this Military aid is to arm the Mullahs... if this gang of mullahs is armed in the American style, the Soviet Union that hawks Communism and Socialism in our country will have to shut shop. I can visualize the mullahs, their hair trimmed with American scissors and their pyjamas stiched with American machines in strict conformity with the Sharia The stones they use after drops of you know what will be American, untouched by Human hand, and their prayer mats would be American too. ``

Third Letter to Uncle Sam... Dated 21st Feb 1954



I knew you would see the light.

-YLH

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mantolives #157 - you write ``I agree that Manto was a logical person... that is why he was the most brilliant mullah-basher amongst other things.``

He made his name in writing FICTION !!!!

Besides, he sounded pretty logical to me in those long teenage winter nights in Pakistan when i could hide in my bed and read his novels to gratify my surging hormones. Many of my friends swear to this day that Manto`s writings were responsible for ushering in their puberty sooner than what nature had intended.