Understanding Sanatana Dharma

Some views of teens:
http://www.hindugateway.com/cgi-bin/webx?14@247.L2p9aupVdRx-hin.0@.ee6b84b/1

Thought is binding, but for it not to have polluting effect on our consciousness, make sure it`s helpful, truth-seeking and kind. This needs discipline ... discipline follows a world view or model. Models use words to channel our thoughts.. So definitions of words are needed. Here is one attempt to define. Search words such as consciousness, dharma, karma, cosmic consciousness, collective consciousness, enlightenment etc. It seems htm/php links are broken so chose pdfs

Pl take the milk and leave the water ... water could be kalki, astrology and vastu (if you perceive as mumbo-jumbo ... i cannot deal with it with my present makeup).

Albert Einstein:
A human being is a part of the whole, called by us the `Universe`, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest - a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security.

http://www.ivu.org/history/northam20a/einstein.html

jang #728 Unable to refute anything I write, you resort (explicitly!) to writing up your own garbage and attributing this to the ``real`` tahmed!!

This is clear proof that your ``reality`` is nothing more than a bunch of delusions based on prejudice. Unless you tell me you know me in ``real`` life and have heard me talk in this vulgar manner that you attribute to me. Have you ever met me in real life??

sidhibaat aka.... : I think what rsaxena says is true. You ARE talking to yourself here (sidhibaat vs. dalit)!! That is one way to win an argument. :-)

(Another way is what jang just did, i.e. make up something stupid and claim that this is what the other person really meant to say, as I mention to him in my post).

Coming to your question: I am not sure what you mean. But really, before anything else do yourself a favor and stick to one nick. Or use your own name even. Why should you say something on chowk that you would not say in real life if you are a self-respecting man?

SeedyBaat

actually their is a great forum on which the issue of caste is rased.. the un conf on racism. indu govt always protests that casteism should not be termed as racism etc. overall no one pays much attention as all the media attention is sucked-up due to the arab and oic denouncement of israel as racist entity with us supporting israel. so perhaps considering the import of this issue, you should raise this as the issue for paki foreign policy and beocome a paki diplomat (surely you have the connections rigtht ;-) ;-) ?) as a gazi of dalits.

other option is providing diplomatic and moral support, since many of your compatriots are dalits or former dalits.

re: tahmed

...at least the old 12-head never responded to his own posts with different nicks...this idiot is actually talking to himself in #725...hahahah...always something new on chowk....

omar qureshi #720
Thank you. That was very enlightening.

tahmed

``Please dont do it - even if you have valid points, no one will take what you say seriously if you act in this immature manner. (This is a piece of friendly advice). ``

allow me to re-write as ``real`` tahmed would write.

you are writing these to display your poor genetic origins and chamar or choora upbringing. by writing this you demonstrate that you have ignorant and evil mama and papa.

#715 by saint on July 18, 2004 9:31pm PT

These are all Jehadi clones of Salim Chauhan alias Mr. Anderson (Remember the determined Agent in ``The Matrix``). All the clones are a new breed of e-terrorists called ``cyber-fidayeen`` with the only aim of spamming Chowk and other such Boards so that they can either make more `clones` of themselves or if they do not succed in doing so - they would self destruct by spamming and choking the band width of these Boards.

harish: you write ``And now will we hear the usual noises about the suicide bombers not being true Muslims because the Quran forbids suicide? As they say, one swallow does not make a summer. For every Salahuddin Ayubi, there have been countless others, whose reputations for chivalry are not exactly something to crow about. Prominent among them Genghiz Khan, Muhammad Ghazni, Ghori, Aurangzeb, Nadir Shah, Taimur Lane, etc. What do you have to say about that? ``

You are dead wrong: None of these individuals was a suicide bomber or a suicide anything. Furthermore, far from being a muslim, Genghiz Khan was the worst enemy of the muslims. Timur the lame was a muslim in name, but his worst enemy too was none other than the ottoman emperor (a ``fellow`` muslim) bayazid whom he defeated in battle and took prisoner.

Get your facts right before jumping to conclusions.

As for salahuddin ayubi being an only example of chivalry in warfare, you are dead wrong too. There are countless examples from muslim history - indeed, one of salahuddin`s actions that earned him the respect of his west european enemies was a repeat of what the caliph usman had done a few centuries earlier (that is the respect shown to the defeated jews and christians in jerusalem after they captured this same city, and to their respective places of worship). There is indeed a lot of evil done in the name of islam in history - but it is also generally recognized that for centuries the muslims were the torchbearers of human progress, and among the most tolerant of societies (e.g. tens of thousands of jews opted to go to muslim turkey after the fall of spain, rather than to any west european country). You need to educate yourself a bit, I think before you start making such ignorant assertions.

sidhibaat aka Pakishaer aka barachota: Pat Robertson has said a lot of ignorant things about islam as well. Do you believe those too, or only the stuff he says about hinduism?
As for taking on different nicks, there used to be a man with 12 nicks on chowk and he made a total fool of himself before he (along with all his nicks) was tossed off chowk. Please dont do it - even if you have valid points, no one will take what you say seriously if you act in this immature manner. (This is a piece of friendly advice).

jang #692 fair enough sir. The alternative to tossing insults at other people`s religions is not chappal kebab and dring, btw. One can also view other cultures with appreciation rather than in trying to find fault, and try to learn something about it - as Nazar Hayat Khan has done in this article on hinduism.

jang #692 (ignore my other response - it had a couple of typos)

fair enough sir. The alternative to tossing insults at other people`s religions is not eating chappal kebab and drink, btw. One can also view other cultures with appreciation rather than in trying to find fault, and try to learn something about it - as Nazar Hayat Khan has done in this article on hinduism.

alephnull #689 shall look forward to your munh todh jawab to my post. :-)

#712 by DagnyTaggart on July 18, 2004 9:31pm PT
A muslim quoting Pat Robertson? Ha Ha Ha
Clutching at the straws, are we?
What does tahmed and Omar Qureshi has to say about this? Some things just make me go hmmmmm

abey dabney coleman boy shusssshhh

---

harry potter: ``Does it have something to do with the fact that some Pakis have a thing for young boys?`` -- nahin yaar -- i thought that was something the sadhus and various maharishis were into yaar --


#708 by CoolAL on July 18, 2004 6:04pm PT
#700, #701

TAhmed, one more for your proud collection.

[YAWN]

We see the birth of another hydra...wake me up when this one runs its course....

PS. Omar must be proud of his protege... ;-)


actually im quite numbed by the dreariness of your posts coolal -- not to mention deadened and close to slumber -- dont worry coolal we wont wake u up -- so jao

-- boy interacting on this is getting to be such a bore -- i think the time has come for a break from all this responding back and forth --

#672 by tahmed32

[the Quran explicitly prohibits suicide in any case, and the military history of islam is in fact often associated with the opposite kind of behavior - that of chivalry in battle, as in case of salahuddin ayubi]

And now will we hear the usual noises about the suicide bombers not being true Muslims because the Quran forbids suicide? As they say, one swallow does not make a summer. For every Salahuddin Ayubi, there have been countless others, whose reputations for chivalry are not exactly something to crow about. Prominent among them Genghiz Khan, Muhammad Ghazni, Ghori, Aurangzeb, Nadir Shah, Taimur Lane, etc. What do you have to say about that?

#680 by Pakshaer

And I fail to understand the fetish amongst Pakistanis for the lingam. To be honest, most of us do not know what the lingam represents, and even those of us who know it never conjure up erotic images while standing and praying in front of it. It is only you guys who are getting all worked up. Does it have something to do with the fact that some Pakis have a thing for young boys?

The Aryan Brahmins imposed the most inhuman systems of repression upon the non-Brahmins which involved the most perverse and inhuman acts of torture imaginable. The heinous forms of murder included the pouring of boiling oil into the ears of Sudras -
Manu Smrti VIII.272
`` If a Sudra arrogantly teaches Brahmins their duty, the king shall cause hot oil to be poured into his mouth and into his ears.``
Pouring of Molten Metal into Sudra Ears
Not only was boiling oil poured down the ears of independant Sudras, in certain other cases molten metal was used instead. Thus, the Brahman law-giver Gautama prescribes the following savage punishment for Sudras who listened to recitations of the Aryan Vedas -
Gautama Dharma Sutra 12.4
`` Now if a Sudra listens intentionally to (a recitation of) the Veda, his ears shall be filled with (molten) tin or lac. ``
Cutting off of Sudra Tongues
Another cruel and inhuman method which the `holy` Hindu texts prescribe for torturing Sudras is the cutting off of their tongues for speaking out against the Aryan and, later, the Brahmanic tyranny. -
Manu Smrti VIII.270
`` A once-born man (a Sudra), who insults a twice-born man with gross invective, shall have his tongue cut out; for he is of low origin. ``
Gautama Dharma Sutra 12.5
`` If a Sudra recites (Vedic texts), his tongue shall be cut out. ``
Negationist Hindutva and Pseudo-Secular historians often claims that these laws were not enforced in actual practice. This theory is refuted by the testimony of several travellers, who explicitly mention that this Brahmanic punishment was actually practiced. Indeed, many travellers were eye-witness to such cases. Witness the following passage by Al-Beruni -
Al-Beruni
Confirms Amputation of Sudra Tongues
`` The Vaisya and the Sudra are not allowed to hear it [ the Veda ], much less to pronounce and recite it. If such a thing can be proved against one of them, the Brahmans drag him before the magistrate, and he is punished by having his tongue cut off. ``
`Al-Beruni`s India,` transl. E.C.Sachau, Vol.I, Ch.XII, p.125 ]
Thrusting of Iron Nails into the Mouth
Another cruel method of torture which the Aryan regimes enforced upon the Sudras was the thrusting of a red-hot iron nail into the mouth of Sudras who had committed minor transgressions -
Manu VIII.271
`` If he mentions the names and castes (Jati) of the (twice-born) with contumely, an iron nail, 10 fingers long, shall be thrust red-hot into his mouth .``
Chopping off of Limbs
For the most trivial of infringements, the Sudra could have his hands, feet or legs chopped off by his Aryan tormentors. The savage Brahmins never hesitated to immediately inflict the heinous tortures perscribed in the Vedic texts and mercilessly chopped off the hands, feet, legs and fingers of their Sudra slaves.
Manu VIII.279-280
`` With whatever limb a man of a low caste does hurt to (a man of the three highest castes) even that limb shall be cut off ; that is the teaching of Manu. He who raises his hand or a stick, shall have his hand cut off ; he who in his anger kicks with his foot, shall have his foot cut off .``
Manu VIII.282
`` If out of arrogance he [ a Sudra ] spits (on a superior), the king shall cause both his lips to be cut off; if he urines (on him), the penis; if he breaks wind (against him), the anus.``
`` If ha lays fold of the hair(of a superior), let the king unhesitatingly cut off his hands , likewise (if he takes him) by the feet, the breard, the neck or the scrotum.``
Such punishments were also meted out during the totalitarian regime of Pandit Kautilya `` ``If a woman labourer after receiving her wages did not turn up for work, her thumb was cut off.`` [ Arthasastr.II.23 cited in Jain, p.234 ]
The traveller John Fryer, who visited India in the 1670s and hence an eye-witness to Brahminist oppression, described the dehumanising effects of Brahmin rule in Maharashtra : `` The cruel exactions of Mahratta rule were patent on all sides. The great fish preyed upon the little ones, until the poorer classes wer brought into eternal bondage. The Brahman officials tortured the revenue farmer and the farmers tortured the cultivators.`` [ Wheeler and Macmillan, p.62 ]. This was during the tyrannical rule of the Peshwa Brahmins and confirms the cumulative effects of their oppression of Marathas and Dalits.
Gashing and Branding
Another inhuman method of torturing Sudras was the method of gashing and branding. `` If a low-caste man who tries to place himself on the same seat with a man of a high caste, shall be branded on his hip and is banished, or (the king) shall cause his buttock to be gashed.`` [ Manu VIII.281 ]
Sawing alive
If a Sudra Negroid remembered verses from the `holy` Vedas, he would be sawed alive -
Gautama Dharma Sutra 12.6
`` If he [ a Sudra ] remembers them [ Vedic Verses ], his body shall be split in twain. ``
The reason for these inhuman acts was solely religious bigotry on the part of first the Aryan invaders who followed the hate-filled verses of the Vedas, and subsequently by the unparalleled fanaticism of the Brahmins who ruthlessly enforced the savage Manu-Smrti and Kautilya Arthasastra upon the Sudras.
The life of a Sudroid Negro is, as per the `holy` Hindu law-books, lower than that of an animal. `` The Vaisya and the Sudra are not allowed to hear it [ the Veda ], much less to pronounce and recite it. If such a thing can be proved against one of them, the Brahmans drag him before the magistrate, and he is punished by having his tongue cut off .`` [ al-Beruni.i.125 Ch.XII ]
The Arab traveller further noted the manner in which the Brahmins persecuted the Sudras - `` Every act that is considered the privelege of the Brahman, such as saying prayers, the reciting of the Veda, and offering of sacfirices to the fire, is forbidden to him, to such a degree that when, eg. a Sudra or a Vaisya is proved to have recited the Veda, he is accused by the Brahmans before the ruler, and the latter will order his tongue to be cut off . However, the meditation on God [ is not prohibited ].`` [ al-Beruni.ii.127 Ch.LXIV ]
In general, the life of an indigenous Sudra is considered lower than that of an animal -
Manu Smrti XI.132
`` Having killed a cat, an ichneumon, a blue jay, a frog, a dog, an iguana, an owl, or a crow, he shall perform the penance for the murder of a Sudra.``
After such mind-boggling atrocities, it is indeed surprising that the Sudras survived. This was due to their sheer will of survival. No surprise then, that Mani Varadarajan has called for the observance of a `Dalit Holocaust Day` -
``Dalit Holocaust Day - August 18``
Mani Varadarajan , alt.hindu, Thu, 17 Aug 1995
Dear Friends,
Please observe a moment of silence in the memory of all those human beings who were slaughtered by the merciless sword of uppercaste Hindu
References
• `Labour in Ancient India,` by P.C.Jain, Sterling Publishers Ltd. New Delhi 1st ed. 1971.
• `European Travellers in India,` by James Talboys Wheeler and Michael Macmillan, reprint Susil Gupta India Ltd. Calcutta, 1956.
• `Alberuni`s India` transl. Dr. E.C.Sachau, 2 vols., Routledge and Kegan Paul Ltd., London 1888.