Understanding Sanatana Dharma

#88 by stuka

[Look at the number of people in India who still read and write Urdu. Outside Muslims, number is negligible. An example of us rejecting Islamic heritage because ny and large we all take the Muslim occupation of India as a bad dream that passed.]

You`re dead wrong on this one. Do all Muslims know how to read and/or write in Urdu? For that matter, how many Hindus read and write Sanskrit? Not many. The issue here is one of how helpful a language can be to furthering one`s career/livelihood. Urdu or Sanskrit or even Hindi as a language are not as useful as English for one`s career except perhaps amongst language teachers. That is why the craze to send their kids to English-medium schools even among those parents who can barely afford it.

nazarhayatkhan #100
``Even on Chowk, no Indian interacter has written about Dharma with simple explanation. ``

This is likely to be because Hindu belief and practice is different for different people, it is jaati(community/caste)/region/culture/family specific.

``Cast System was not ordained by Scriptures. In fact, nothing is Ordained by Scriptures as mandatory. ``

At some conceptual level, yes, but I don`t think you can say caste system is not part of Hinduism. Jaatis have always existed, though his karma is individual, in real life terms the beliefs and practices of a Hindu have been largely defined by the beliefs and practices of his particular community. There has always been a cost associated with defying one`s community.

Where a particular jaati existed in the power heirarchy on one hand and varna heirarachy on the other(both not necessarily the same) depended on the history of that community in that particular region, and thus may not have been cast in stone many centuries ago. But in recent times it has been, and most jaatis had internalised their relative heirarchical positions, a living reality still being tackled in the present.

#76 by dost-mittar and other posts.
“Such hatred! such disrespect for knowledge, if not for their own roots is mind boggling.”

There are many Urdu speaking in Karachi who have problems with Z and J. Madni appears to be an old man and that should not be a reason to challenge his credentials. I hope people instead of challenging his origin, would look at the important issue that he brought out.

DM Sahib, Karachi University is not an old school. In 1966, its library was not the envy of any other university in Pakistan. University of Sindh has a huge collection of books on India, Indic heritage etc. as Sindh was very much there before Muslims arrived and Sindhi are as proud of their heritage as anybody in India is.

I am positive though, what Madni said about the books was accurate. Sometime there is a whole lot that goes into sometime minor things. The easiest answer to the book throwing probably could be the fact that libraries normally do updates and bring in new books. To create shelf space often they move books that have no or little readership to the archives. But if a library does not have that option sometimes the books are sold or given away.

In Karachi University’s case I also feel that it was probably on purpose. I am not going into a whole detail as I also intend to put together a post for Sameer’s board on this subject. Until then, here is something briefly.
The people who came from India in 1947-49 period were really smart people but also horribly communal. After Muslim league died in Pakistan around 1948, most of these immigrants moved towards political parties of religious orientation such as the Jamaat Islami and JUP an off shoot of JU Hind. They were educated people but borderline orthodox. (Btw, Muslims in UP are still much more conservative than their counterpart in Pakistan.) There were some strange contradictions in their attitudes. While they were some what tolerant about Islam in daily lives, they were totally intolerant when it came to India and Hindu. Jamaat Islami captured that feeling in Karachi and many Urdu speaking became part of Jammat Islami and still are.
In the sixties Jammat Islami was also making a full frontal assault on the educational institutions in Pakistan and the first university to fall under the Jamaat Influence was Karachi University. Where faculties were control by Jamaat leaning UP-ians. If I remember correctly, what I read a long time ago, the vice chancellor of Karachi University at that time was one Ishtaiq Hussain Qureshi. He was a card carrying member of the Jamaat and I have no doubt that he might have ordered the removal of books about Hindu thoughts on purpose.
I hope this helps.

DMji,

Are you a friend of Vinod Mehta, your pseudo-secular leanings suggest so!!

``even that kutter-hindu Joshi increased subsidies for the promotion of Urdu``, amazing sophistication of language!! May I ask what did Mr. Joshi do to earn such a strong reaction from a Hindu with roots in Pakistan and settled in Canada?

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nazar

some things are conspicuously missing

the huge role that spiritual masters play in every generation in (re)interpreting the important texts. There are hundreds of commentaries on the Geeta and some of these are very famous. Hinduism is constantly being reinterpreted at the surface level in every generation while keeping core elements like individual self = universal self (I am that). We dont know who the authors of the vedas were. It has been compiled and recompiled at various times. likewise, the spiritual gurus and prodigies of every age are constantly reshaping it.

This site http://www.amiahindu.com/ has some interesting charts (its selling a book with the text)

warpster # 118

(There are hundreds of commentaries on the Geeta and some of these are very famous. Hinduism is constantly being reinterpreted at the surface level in every generation while keeping core elements like individual self = universal self (I am that))

I agree. That is well within the core concept of Dharma & its acceptability of different approaches.

This elementry article was not intended for the follwers of Dharma except that I had to ensure the basic correctness of facts. Even the Indian Muslims may find it very basic.

It was more for the last two generations of Pakistanis, including mine, who had never even heard the term Sanatana Dharma much less know its philosophy.

Sadna # 114

(At some conceptual level, yes, but I don`t think you can say caste system is not part of Hinduism. Jaatis have always existed, though his karma is individual, in real life terms the beliefs and practices of a Hindu have been largely defined by the beliefs and practices of his particular community)

If it is not there at the conceptual level, is there any need to make it a part of Dharma if society at large is not happy about it. Tantric school has already rejected it. Dharma does give a freedom of adopting different ways but it also gives equal freedom of rejecting the one`s not approved by the society.

Jaatis or zaats also exist in Pakistan. Every sarkari application form requires that cast is filled in. That is a social system/practice not to be confused with the core Concept.

Those hindus who have offended me, disrespected me, and threw abscenities at me should apologise to me.

Ref dost-mittar #76

[harimau:
``Since no further improvement was possible or needed in the grammar, they also declared it to be the language of the gods!``
...I really am wary of claims of perfection, whether wrt grammar or wrt holy scipture.]

When something can be proven by formal/mathematical reasoning to be complete, there is no reason not to claim perfection.

Religion/ gods/scriptures do not lend themselves to formal reasoning being based on faith and faith alone. So I agree that perfection in religion is not provable.

Grammars can be analyzed using formal techniques and can be shown to be consistent. Once the Sanskrit grammarians recognized that they had achieved internal consistency, there was no reason not to declare it to be perfect.

I am reminded of a 17th century musicologist of South India, Venkatamakhin, who having defined the 72 parent musical scales (the so-called melakarta raags from which all other raags can be derived) said, ``I challenge Lord Shiva himself to create another (melakarta) out of these seven tones.``

Such is the power of formal methods of reasoning that a pious God-fearing brahmin could issue a challenge to Lord Shiva!

#67 by Ralph on June 30, 2004 8:48am PT
omar_r_quraishi

Dear editor, kindly widen your horizons. It will surprise you but I knew very little of what Nazar ji has written in this article. Indian media sources do not have a very high religious content.

Contrast that with your own newspaper. Dawn`s opinion columns drip with praises of Islam almost every other week. You surely do not leave any need for anyone else to write about the religion.

hahah ralphie boy couldnt resist replying -- shri ralph jee first of all please its asst editor not editor -- secondly, dawn`s opinion columns are not dripping with praises of islam -- shows how much clued in (read clueless) you are about pakistan`s english language media -- and my comment was a very general one but as i suspected an avowed paki basher like yourself couldnt resist --

nb -- some pakistanis are quite well versed with the tenets of hinduism and have read the ancient scriptures -- its the revivalist movement and its consequences on india`s minorities that they have issues with


veeresh jee: ``#104 by veeresh on June 30, 2004 8:27pm PT
nhk/100 - ````Even on Chowk, no Indian interacter has written about Dharma with simple explanation. Or about other Dharmic faiths. Or Christianity - just the basics. While we regularly do have considearable exchange on Islam. ````
I think the reason for this is that in India religion is largely not a Grand National Obsession and Reason To Exist. I venture to state that it is different in Pakistan, where everything is sought to be measured against Islam. (The truth that all of us measure and benchmark against a variety of standards like traditions, monetary wealth, education, travel, ``power``, ``success``, is, of course, something we all choose to ignore when it suits us, right?) Therefore, a large number of exchanges on chowk have Pakistanis as well as Indians bringing in their interpretations of Islam as the ultimate defining clinching argument in favour or against most everything.```` --

veeresh jee do us a favour and dont `venture` anywhere, esp `to state` --

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omar_r_quraishi



Other than editing the newspaper, do you ever read it?

M.B.Z.Isphahani # 123

Studes, the only shanti Islam teaches is that of a grave, of non Muslims. Instead of shanti shanti, you repeat beheading beheading. Alas, that is your conception of what your god wants.

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#125

Other than editing the ``newspaper,`` do you ever read it?

LOL...thanks Chowk Editors. That was a good one. I too prefer it this way. :)