Prophecy and the Mullah: Hotel Mohenjodaro

maududilives: I have wasted enough time with you (you say now ``I never brought maududi up.`` - what kind of claim is this when your very nick is dedicated to your god maududi). With urstruly here, i am through wasting time with you and your hypocrisy. I will waste time on chowk with one mauvli at a time.

Go in peace and pray that one day maududi`s bhoot is lifted from your head and you become a human being before you die.

tahmed32 - dear brother, you are indeed being funny, or retarded. Here are the major points from your latest post, and my responses:

``You say I know nothing about maududi?``

I never said that! I never brought maududi up. You did. all i said was that the fact you were going in tangents had nothing to do with maududi. besides this discussion was about your non-sense argument that hindus are ``believers``. but you started going into tangents talking about military rulers of pakistan, zia, benazir, etc etc. Its like I talk about your house rent, and you start telling me about your village in Pakistan! How stupid!!

``you cannot by definition be considered a muslim ``

brother, even though you were mischievous in misquoting Quran, I still not ONCE said that you were not a Muslim. Who am I to say that? But you on the other hand, using the typical tactic of people of your kind have given the fatwa that I am not a Muslim!!! Brother, mullahs may be bad, but people of your kind are worse. I am sorry to say that.

``If you really took the Quran and Islam seriously, you would have some concern for these issues that I have raised ``

dear brother, the problem is this that I never heard an argument from you. Your style was that of making personal attacks from the beginning. you never provided me a direct reference from Quran or sunnah. However, you did try to cheat and be clever with the ayah that I provided! You were bent on making this ``debate`` into mud-slinging, since deep down you knew you had no knowledge base to derive from.

Dear brother, your repeated statements about that ``fundamental message of islam is peace`` is all well and good, but memorizing this statement is not Islam. There is more to it and by formulating your beliefs on the foundation of hatred for mullahs will not let you go any where. IN fact, not just in religious matters, but in your personal matters too, you should never take this approach. This is an advice from your brother.

May Allah give us hadaya

Urstruly - you write ``Now that would be interesting to see how God explicitly placed that power (which power?) out of bound for Holy Prophet (pbuh) himself? Mr. tahamad what is ``your`` evidence of that.``

Brother, do not expect an answer from brother Tahmed32. I have figured this out that he pulls out things out of blue which have no credibility, no evidence, and then he has the audacity to mould ayahs to fit his argument, rather than the other way around.

Case in point: he is hellbent on insisting that hindus are ``believers`` according to Quran. This is despite my producing a clear verse from Quran which counters that. Then brother Tahmed attacks me personally saying that he would ``lash`` me if he sees me. sad. so sad! His only knowledge of Islam seems to be limited to this: how maududi harmed islam. And thats it. I say fine. May maududi burn in hell if that is what he did. But that does not change the fact that Mr. Tahmed32 has not produced a single debatable argument.

tahmad writes:

`` By ignoring these facts and trying to wave them aside, you have repeated the same mischief you did earlier by ignoring what is written in black and white for all to see (except perhaps to the dozakhees like you maududiites who seek to attain power that God explicitly placed outside limits to the Holy Prophet himself)?``

Now that would be interesting to see how God explicitly placed that power (which power?) out of bound for Holy Prophet (pbuh) himself? Mr. tahamad what is ``your`` evidence of that.

maududilives: So you say you used that filthy word only once (if you had any respect for the Quran, you would not even have used it even once) and I should not mention it? What kind of ridiculous excuse is that? Try to mend you ways and learn to respect the Quran. If you dont respect the Quran, you cannot by definition be considered a muslim - and a muslim would not use filthy language in the same discussion as a discussion on the Quran. Even once.

You say I know nothing about maududi? What kind of delusional thinking is that? Do you deny that maududi sought political power on the basis of religion? Do you deny that pakistani people, when given the choice in elections, have soundly rejected this abuse of religion that he started and which the religious parties continue? Do you deny that it is only under the military general zia that these scoundrels received funds and guns? Do you deny that it was under the order ot the military general that the evil laws desinged to give arbitrary power to the ruler under the guise of islam?

By ignoring these facts and trying to wave them aside, you have repeated the same mischief you did earlier by ignoring what is written in black and white for all to see (except perhaps to the dozakhees like you maududiites who seek to attain power that God explicitly placed outside limits to the Holy Prophet himself)? If you really took the Quran and Islam seriously, you would have some concern for these issues that I have raised and which you have tried to be clever with by simply ignoring them and accusing me instead!! You can fool yourself, you cant fool me. And you certainly wont fool God when your time comes to face the music.

You can call me brother from one side of your mouth and say filth from the other side - what you call me matters not one bit to me. Flattery or insults on chowk mean nothing to me. Mend your evil ways before it is too late. That is all I have to say.

tahmed32 - Dear brother, my one-time use of the word ``ass``, as in `pulling things out of your ass` makes you write a whole 2 posts about my ``filthy`` langugage. And then as expected of a person who lacks argument, you bring maududi - who has nothing to do with the fact that you know nothing about what you are claiming to know. I know people like you too well brother. Whenever people of your kind find themselves in a debate, they resort to personal and other attacks which have no relevance whatsoever with the topic at hand. By creating these smoke screens and broohaha, such as ``filthy language`` and ``hindu women not chaste``, you try to blur the fact that you have no valid points or even basic knowledge to counter my argument with an argument.

Dear brother, just like when you get a speeding ticket, you cannot tell the cop that you were abused as a child and that has resulted in your speeding ticket. Similarly my dear brother, you cannot keep bringing in maududi and mullahs to hide the fact that you are ignorant of even the basic concepts of Islam. But being ignorant is ok - we all make sincere efforts to learn Islam all our lives. What separates you however is that you engage in the repulsive practice of hiding ayahs, misquoting the obvious ayahs of quran, and then trying to be clever in a debate rather than honest.

Dear brother, in the process of this ``debate`` that we had, all your personality lays bare for everyone to see. You have lived with your ideas, which were built around the hatred of mullahs, for far too long. And when challenged, it is understandable why you go into tangents and in making personal attacks.

May Allah give us hadaya.

Mullah manto and Mullah Tahmed.

Great minds think alike, innit!

khwajay da gawah daddu.

maududilives: So, having spoken filth in a discussion on the Quran (thus proving the lack respect you have for islam, while defining yourself with your nick as a maududiite), you now try hide behind the claim that your filthy language was reserved for me. This proves you to be a hypocrite - who misrepresents Quranic verses, says ``brother`` from one side of his mouth and says filth from the other side and then tries to reconcile the two. This is the true face of the maulvi.

Also, your filthy language means nothing to me since any coward can write any kind of filth from the safety of the internet. In using such language in this discussion, you have also demonstrated with your own words the kind of individual you are and the type of household you were raised in. No amount of excuses and cleverness can hide that fact.

In this discussion you have with your own words proved why you cannot be considered muslims (since by definition a muslim would not even inadvertantly use filthy language in the same discussion he is quoting from the Quran, nor would he so brazenly ignore explicit references to Quranic verses calling for respect for all faiths for example). Indeed, by the very nick you have chosen you have demonstrated that you are nothing but a follower of another man - your real god is maududi, that rascal who abused the Quranic message in his vain attempts at gain political power in pakistan - a party that has been given humiliating defeats in elections since the people of Pakistan see through your hypocrisy, and which survive only because the military generals have found it convenient to give your rascals money from the public exchequer, and guns and to tilt the last elections in your favor. No amount of excuses and cleverness can hide that fact either.

mantolives: please see the post i just wrote to this man where i explain why i too have reached the same conclusion as you have.

tahmed...

The people you are arguing with are basically hypocrites without any sense of decency...

To expect a fair minded response from them is useless..

-YLH

tahmed32 - my filthy language was reserved for you after you had deliberately tried to played with the obvious meanings from quran. you are a mean spirited person who deserves no kind words. had you innocently done your mischievous acts, i would have taken 1000 hours to explain to you. but you were being clever. brother you deserve much worse than filthy language. but that is between allah and you. your stupidity and callousness in apparent to all those who have been following this board as well as my ilog.

brother, your deliberate act of playing ``clever`` only shows the puss in your brain that only you with your earnest efforts can clean out.

my best wishes with you. and may allah give us hadaya.

maududilives: Your use of filthy language when discussing religion and the Quran indicates the level of respect you have for the religion that your god maududi abused in his futile efforts for political power. This is another characteristic of you mullahs - saying ``dear brother in islam`` from one side of your mouth and spouting filth from the other side.

tahmed32 - you write ``I should note though that you did not say anything earlier when I mentioned this understanding I had of what you meant, ``

dear brother in islam, you had been pulling a lot of things out of your ass. Please excuse me for saying this. I was having a hard time keeping up with all the tangents meanings you were deriving from my one simple statement and cut/paste of quranic aya.

:)

Maududilives: I am neither retarded, nor trying to be funny. You say that hindus are nonbelievers and, when challenged, ignore the explicit references I gave you from the Quran and instead come up with a verse that says nothing of the kind. It is you who is playing games with the Quran because the hold of the maulvi ideology on you. I will agree to end this discussion now, and leave you with this parting message: It is our duty as muslims to read the Quran with a view to understanding the fundamental message - and there is no question that the fundamental message is one that embraces all mankind (not just muslims), all faiths (not just islam), and promotes universal values of individual responsibility, intellectual and material honesty, education (not the narrow-minded tribal mentality of the maulvi). in naming yourself after maududi, you indicate that you do not understand this basic message. i suggest you use your own name (or abbreviation) instead, thus exerting your individuality rather than as being a follower of some other man.

I am glad you now state that calling hindu women unchaste would be going against the teachings of islam, and take back the harsh words I said in a moment of anger in my previous post when I was of the impression that you were casting aspersions on women belonging to another community. I should note though that you did not say anything earlier when I mentioned this understanding I had of what you meant, and my understanding was based on how you brought up the issue (by raising the question of marrying a hindu girl and bringing up the verse which refers to chaste women of the book). Thus, while not explicitly saying it, the innuendo was nevertheless present.

tahmed32 - Dear brother, either you are too retarded or you are being funny. Please tell me where did I write that ``hindu women are not chaste``???? For me to say that would be going against the teachings of Islam. And for you to make this baseless allegation...well, you know the punishment of the person who makes a ``bohtaan``. I did write that they are not ``believers`` according to Quran.

But aside from that, here is a clear tactic of neem mullahs like you. You introduce yourself as a person who has read quran with his ``own head``. Then when someone says something you don`t like, your first line of defense is ``show me where in Quran it says that``. At this point you are half hoping that either the person will go away or he will not have time to sift through Quran. At which time you could declare victory.

Unfortunately, there are some times when the person DOES show you ``where in Quran``, like in this instance:) At this time you start your flip flops, and try to wiggle your way out by ``thrashing`` the other person with personal insults or creating allegations. IN the due process you start to look like a monkey, brother. Please excuse me for saying this.

In any case, you have had run out of arguments long time ago. Now you are simply using ``fluff`` language to salvage yourself to somehow hope that this argument ends. Well, as they say that if you see an animal who is injured and is about to die, you should end his misery by doing ``mercy killing`` and end the animal`s misery.

So Brother Tahmed, I will consider this a ``mercy killing`` and end this debate right here :)

maududilives: If you were approaching this discussion with an open mind, you would have realized that the points from the doctrine you have been arguing about (i.e. namely, that hindus are not believers, that hindu women are unchaste) finds no basis in Quran and is indeed ra violation of the fundamental spirit of the Quran.

Rather than acknowledge what is there in written in black and white before you, you chose to follow the mischievous ways of the maulvi, and talk about women and hindus in this shameless manner. This is not the way of islam. such mischievous talk is the way of iblis, the way the maulvis and their followers chose to follow since it matches their slanderous, hate-filled, reptilian minds.

You say you called me brother as if that means anything to me. That means nothing. All men are my brothers. As a muslim I have no need to fear or hate or insult any group of people. Hindu women are my sisters, and as a muslim it is my duty to protect the honor of all women. If you were to repeat your shameless words against them to my face, as God is my witness I would give you the thrashing of your life. So dont think you win me over by calling me ``brother`` that say you did.

No begone, and follow maududi. One day perhaps you will remember what I have said, ask God for forgiveness for having taken the way of the shameless maulvi, and repent your ways and learn to treat ALL men (hindus or muslims or any other religion) as your brother and learn to treat ALL women with respect instead of casting shameless aspersions on their character.