The Triple Conspiracy

Maulana Sattar Sahib:

...However, if you want to expand the circle .... am deliberately quoting just this part:)

bhai saheb...this is what i have learned and what i believe in...as far as i am concerned every individual is free to pursue his/her path to(wards) becoming a better insaan

...insaan is the key word...you may follow mirza saheb...i may follow ganesh, peter, jesus, bahaullah, the crow outside this window, or simply my conscience…remember the key word…I think that is what any god can ask of us;)...baaqi sub khairiyat hay!

rgds,

t

ps:

ferzi -- refrain;)

Farzana -

I haven`t read this article of yours yet, so can`t really comment on it yet...but I just saw ``your week`` at the TFT. Congratulations! You`re an excellent addition to that excellent newspaper (but I could be biased...I think you are one of the best writers anywhere)

Farzana..Nice Article.Just wondering how the AIMPLB members are selected?
I would like to see a democratic process of selection.
As I have mentioned in other board,the mullahs are not really interested in divinty of the Quran, but the power they wield as the sole interpreters.This happenned in the Shah Bano case and is happening again.
As for those who are saying rejection of Quran altogether, every change has to be gradual.
If the power of interpretation is taken away from the mullahs, more than half the battle is won.The laws are not that unequitable as they are made out to be.
Regarding Meher, it is a safeguard,but brides are tricked into withdrawing their claim to it as an emotional ploy.``Good muslim women dont care about meher...``
I will refer a wonderful collection of short stories by Nasira Sharma-``Khuda ki waapsi``.The title story is about meher.Interesting the heroine of that story is called farzana.As an aside,though this is not what people like Rushdie will have us believe,IMHO our finest literature is still written in the so called vernacular languages.

Farzana,

I believe the article was veering equality and fairness.

Next step, muslim women should be allowed to have upto 4 husbands, so long as the existing husbands consent, and they are treated equally. Also, a women prophet is needed that should be allowed by God to take as many husbands as she wants. Given the drop in female-to-male, ratio this is necessary as the women will give respectability to the many unmarried men (and prevent them being testostorone driven idiots).

Satire

Hi Faiza (#48):

[You wrote ``Islam on paper gives woman a right, but does it imbue her with the courage and wherewithal to exercise it?``
As far as the courage is concerned, doesn`t the responsibility lie with the society and not so much with religion when it comes to implementing those rights? It has become almost natural to blame things on the religion when in reality they should be blamed on the patriarchal guardians of our society.]

I have blamed the Ulemas categorically. But do you expect the patriarchal structure of society to empower women? Most societies use religion as their basis for structuring social norms. I am afraid women will have to make crucial decisions on their own and they need to have a strong foundation from which they can challenge male-dominated interpretations. To do so, they will need the confidence from their religion. How many times do we hear of women say they get peace, they feel fulfilled, they become more aware of life, they gain enlightenment due to their faith? Is it too far-fetched for them to be able to say that they now have the courage because of that faith to fight its misinterpretations and get what is their rightful due?

We are not talking here about some of us, but about the vast majority of women.

[Take care and regarding ``fly in the soup,`` shouldnt it be changed to ``poisoned fly in the soup`` considering how greatly you contribute to the disgust of chowkies with your articles;)]

Since this is a personal opinion, you may of course have it and keep it...besides, we might have to get into grammatical details...like who has poisoned the fly and why? And how can such an entity cause disgust? Does it cause irreparable damage?....the day I see corpses instead of venomous vipers on my boards, then I shall have reason to give your additional word another look:)
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rahul_capri (#51):

[As for those who are saying rejection of Quran altogether, every change has to be gradual.]

I think it is foolhardy to take away something that is so important to so many. It is the very basis of society as most know it. The change has to be in the matter of perception and execution. And each society will have different needs...this must be borne in mind.

[Regarding Meher, it is a safeguard,but brides are tricked into withdrawing their claim to it as an emotional ploy.``Good muslim women dont care about meher...``]

This is the general attitude; women are anyway not expected to know much about money and their control over it is at best left to running the house...in our subcontinent, most working women, as opposed to those who have broken through the glass ceiling, work only to help run the household; others are told that this is good pocket money.

Re. literature in regional languages, you are so right. A while ago at a book exhibition I was pleasantly surprised to see a Sahitya Academy counter; of course it was badly-displayed and I had to sit on the dusty floor to browse and look for what turned out to be gems...I even found a copy of Iravati Karve`s interpretation of the `Mahabharata` translated into Gujarati. Have you read her?

Satire (#52):

[Next step, muslim women should be allowed to have upto 4 husbands, so long as the existing husbands consent, and they are treated equally. Also, a women prophet is needed that should be allowed by God to take as many husbands as she wants. Given the drop in female-to-male, ratio this is necessary as the women will give respectability to the many unmarried men (and prevent them being testostorone driven idiots).]

1. Women have enough trouble on their hands already.
2. Being a testosterone-driven idiot is not the prerogative of the unmarried male.
3. Unlike most men, women are capable of giving respectability to the male species without tagging a label on their lapels.
4. Would a woman prophet be discussing these issues with a male god or a female god?
5. Just in case women condescend to permit such a scenario, then would equal treatment mean letting four or more newspapers in the house or would each get turns to look at the sports page first, and turns to put the socks in their place, to put the toilet seat down, to talk big and think small, to treat a gadget in the house like precious china and to make the woman feel like a machine?

Really, women don’t care for much of all this and manage the others on their own quite well, so one well-behaved man would do…
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godot:

Thank you... I think all of us our biased, and some biases suit me just fine!
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temporal:

[ferzi -- refrain;)]

Surely you mean constant refrain ;)

`For greater empowerment of Muslim women`

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/764378.cms

MUMBAI: The outcome of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board working committee`s meeting in Lucknow on Sunday is being eagerly awaited by the Muslim community.

The board will discuss and adopt a resolution dealing with marriage and divorce.

Hardliners have already warned of a nationwide agitation if the board declares `talaq` uttered thrice in a single sitting invalid. TNN spoke to Yusuf Muchhala (66), who is a leading member of the board since 1988 and is an advocate.

Q:Certain critics have stated that the AIMPLB has no right to take decisions on behalf of the entire Muslim community. Please comment.
--
The board was set up in the early 70s in the context of the demand for uniform civil code. It was set up primarily to protect Muslim personal laws within the framework of the shariat and at the same time usher in social reforms in the community.

The board has several achievements to its credit. For example, it took the initiative in doing away with the practice of dowry.

These reforms have been widely endorsed by the Muslim community which underlines the acceptability of the board. We are now working towards greater empowerment of Muslim women.

Q:A vocal section of Muslims has accused the board of interfering with the shariat vis-a-vis the `talaq` issue. It has even warned of a nationwide agitation against the board.
--
We will not be discussing any `talaqnama` in tomorrow`s meeting. What we are going to discuss is a nikahnama`. The draft of the nikahnama` has been in circulation within the community for quite some time.

Nikah is being perceived by some people as a mere civil contract between the husband and wife, but our contention is that it is both a contract and a sacrament. The new `nikahnama` enables women to stipulate certain conditions for marriage, which increases her bargaining power. But then what is this controversy over `talaq` about?

The shariat talks of several forms of `talaq` of which talaq-esunnat is one of them. Speaking about talaq-e-sunnat, it is further divided into talaq-e-hasan, talaqe-ahsan, and talaq-ul-bain. The first two forms of `talaq` are universially accepted by all schools of Islamic thought, while talaq-ulbain is mostly followed by Hanafi Sunni Muslims.

Under the first two forms, the word `talaq` should be uttered only once at a time and there should normally be a three-month period of `iddat`— which is broadly equal to three menstrual cycles. There is scope for reconciliation. But under talaq-ul-bain—in which `talaq` is uttered thrice in one sitting— the divorce is irrevocable.

A woman who divorces cannot remarry her husband unless she performs `halala` which requires her to marry another man, have the marriage consummated and then is divorced by her second husband.

The entire process is very humiliating for all the parties concerned. The board is not trying to render talaq-ul-bain invalid, but is only encouraging its disuse.

Q:Progressive organisations of Muslim women like the Awaz-e-Niswan of Mumbai are sceptical of the new proposal being implemented, given the patriarchal nature of Muslim society.
--
I appreciate the concerns of the Awaz-e-Niswan. What we need is dedicated grassroots level activism to ensure that the reform process is allowed to go through. Prominent Muslims like Maulana Quddus Kashmiri of the Ulema Council are saying that they are not opposed to efforts at reconciliation between an estranged husband and wife.

Their contention is that once `talaq` is uttered the three time, the divorce should be regarded as final. We have no disagreement this issue. But, our contention is that the practice of giving `talaq` in one sitting should be discouraged.

Instead, the process of divorce should be spread over a period of time and in the meantime effort should be made at bringing about a reconciliation between the husband and wife. This is fully in keeping with the shariat.

Hi Farzana, just wondering, would it be kind of socially correct to interpret the rapidly changing female/male ratio in some parts of the country as one reason for the change in the talaq rule? I mean, here we have districts where, regardless of religion, the female to male ratio is around 700 females per 1000 males.

Think about it?

Truth is, as I discovered after a rapid trip to some rather desolate/back in history parts of the countryside near Delhi, that it seems to be perfectly acceptable that if a man divorces or abandons his wife, then there seems to be no dearth of males willing to accept her. The parameters here are not about religion, they are about ``productivity``, across child-bearing, home-building and probably some forms of polyandry also.

More soon on this.

Farzana,
have been in bed with flu( winter Down Under!) so haven`t written earlier. I am so glad this is happening, because anything that happens to women in India affects all Indian women sooner or later, whether it be the Bhanwari rape case (what`s she doing now, btw) or Shah Bano. No woman is an island, etc. Whenever I talk about discriminatory customs-the laws are fine as far as I`m concerned-one male relative will invariably say, ``Be grateful you`re not Muslim.`` They`d still say that because of the political face of Islam being that cultured man so partial to naachne-gaanewalis Mr Bukhari, but at least it`s one step in making the law more fair.

Farzana #53
``I think it is foolhardy to take away something that is so important to so many. It is the very basis of society as most know it. The change has to be in the matter of perception and execution. And each society will have different needs...this must be borne in mind.``
Farzana, I have no problems with respect. I respect respect. I too respect Gita in a vague sort of way.But I would always place my better judgement and the sense of what I think is wrong or right ahead of Gita. I would place my better judgement ahead of what my parents or any other entity tht I respect says. And that is sacrilegious in Islam,which worries me.
Imade all the arguments I could in a long and winding discussion I had with tahmed on this topic on the Secularity of India board, if you are interested
``I even found a copy of Iravati Karve`s interpretation of the `Mahabharata` translated into Gujarati. Have you read her? ``
No I havent. I have read the Narendra Kohli version though which is quite engaging.

The promised ``more``.

A chance remark by an observant and intelligent Pakistani journalist, from the increasingly emancipated Urdu media there, sent me on a bit of a search last weekend.

This journalist told me that in India ``more Muslim girls are marrying Hindu boys lately``, and at that juncture, I chose to put it aside as a bit of whinging. He then put me in touch with some clerics who gave me some more details. I also did discuss this in Delhi with some people who know about such matters, and transpires that the female-male ratio skews in some parts of UP, Haryana and Rajasthan, are leading to situations where brides are being sought from far and brought into families.

Now obviously, if a typical rural/semi-rural family brings in a bride from an area where there are language and cooking differences, then there is a problem.

So, looking closer, and that means taking a drive to areas around Delhi where population demographics by religion did not change much after 1947, it seems that families of cast-away young Muslim girls, who have been divorced for a variety of reasons (shotgun marriages with visiting rich Muslims, triple talaq divorces for a variety of reasons, etc.) are not averse to the idea of getting such young women married into neighbourhood familes where language and food, as well as other traditions, are similar.

Obviously there is a lot of secrecy behind such marriages.

1) Is the MPLB reacting to such scenarios?

2) Is the MPLB even relevant in some parts of India?

I shall be back with more inputs.

The update:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/765003.cms

Triple Talaq to go out softly

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ MONDAY, JULY 05, 2004 05:25:53 AM ]

KANPUR/NEW DELHI: The All India Muslim Personal Law Board,
regarded as India`s most authoritative body on Muslim personal
law, has taken two significant steps forward. On Sunday, the
board decided to launch a time-bound campaign to discourage
`triple talaaq in one sitting` by asking Muslims all over the
country to adopt the Shariat-approved talaaq-e-ehsan (one
divorce in one sitting).


In another decision that could affect the lives of millions of
Muslim women, the board called for a revision of legal
provisions which exclude women from inheriting agricultural
property.

Expressing concern over the misuse of `triple talaaq in one
sitting`, a majority of the 41-member board`s executive
committee were of the view that the procedure should be
discouraged and the model Nikahnama drafted by the board
adopted instead.

Briefing mediapersons, the board`s general secretary, Maulana
Syed Nizamuddin, said, ``The executive committee, after
reviewing the work done for social reform, has decided to
launch an intensive campaign appealing and persuading the
community to follow the rules of the Shariat in matters of
marriage, termination of marriage by talaaq, rights and
obligations of husband and wife and inheritance.`` The board
would take stock of the situation at the general body meeting
to be held in Calicut in Kerala in December 2004, he added.

The model Nikahnama suggests that in case of any marital
dispute, the contesting parties should either appoint an
arbitrator (who may be an elder from either side) or should
approach the Darul Quza, who would settle the dispute as per
the marriage contract (Nikahnama) and Shariat laws, said Qasim
Rasool Ilyas, the Muslim personal law board spokesperson.

Yusuf Hatim Muchala, a board member, was of the opinion that
triple talaaq should be used only in emergency cases and
extreme circumstances when instant divorce became necessary.

Besides the triple talaaq and model Nikahnama, the board
reviewed the report of the Darul Quza committee.

Farzana (#54):

The issue isn`t whether you (or most girls) prefer monogamy or that most men prefer monogamy as well. The issue isn`t even monogamy Vs. polygamy, or instant Vs. prolonged divorce being better. The issue is that a girl should have the same opportunity as anyone else (equality and fairness). Given the opportunity, more girls will be daring to say ``hey why can`t I have more than one boyfriend/partner/husband`` should they prefer it that way.

Equal opportunity doesn`t make people equal. It simple gives people the ability to earn their inequality. We aren`t created equal except perhaps identical twins and even they don`t stay equal for long.

Islamic laws do favor men though they may be better than what existed before 600 AD. In this era, either we scrap them for secular ones, or change them radically to allow a woman to have 4 husbands (along with 4 newspapers).

And boy, I thought the one god didn`t have a gender. That I leave to the ``manizing`` female prophet to decide.

Satire

PS,
Men (whether married/partnered/unattached) indeed have a lower average IQ than women but the lethal cocktail for them is stupidity mixed with sexual frustration.

Hi Veeresh:

Interesting inputs, but am not sure about some...
[#56...would it be kind of socially correct to interpret the rapidly changing female/male ratio in some parts of the country as one reason for the change in the talaq rule? I mean, here we have districts where, regardless of religion, the female to male ratio is around 700 females per 1000 males.]

I think it is more likely to be a rethink on the part of some people given the international perception of Islam being a religion from the cave ages. There is a genuine attempt to distance IMs from other Islamic societies, and when we see ourselves against, say, Turkey or Malaysia, we do come out looking silly in certain contexts.

The fact that the MPLB has also made provisions for women inheriting agricultural land is a sort of indicator that the issue is not solely about talaq, but about giving some basic rights to women. How and when it will be implemented is another matter.

[Truth is, as I discovered after a rapid trip to some rather desolate/back in history parts of the countryside near Delhi, that it seems to be perfectly acceptable that if a man divorces or abandons his wife, then there seems to be no dearth of males willing to accept her.]

This is historical in nature...since Islam has not looked down on divorced/widowed women (we can of course point out several cases of other sorts of exploitation), acceptance has not been a problem; in fact, it is deemed to be `sawaab`. Among the Bohras, at least that is what they said several years ago, after a period of mourning for four months, a widow would be asked by her grown-up son whether she would be interested in marrying again.

[#59...2) Is the MPLB even relevant in some parts of India?]

It is politically relevant as a representative of the IMs, but as I wrote in this article, there are several communities that have their own forms of talaq, and other laws.
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#57 by nb:

Hope you are feeling better today...get well soon.

Nothing much heard about Bhanwari Devi anymore. Did you see `Bawander`? I hated it.

[Whenever I talk about discriminatory customs-the laws are fine as far as I`m concerned-one male relative will invariably say, ``Be grateful you`re not Muslim.``]

Lol...after reading some suggestions on this board, I too will say that to you, as you might be presented such unwanted `temptations` as a series of husbands :)
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#58 by rahul_capri:

I was merely responding to your comment, ``As for those who are saying rejection of Quran altogether, every change has to be gradual``. I agree with you, which is why I said that each society`s perceptions differ.

[I would place my better judgement ahead of what my parents or any other entity tht I respect says. And that is sacrilegious in Islam,which worries me.]

There is no monolithic Islam, and re. the issue of talaq, I have brought that forth. Some groups do consider the Islamailis and Bohras and other sects not real Muslims, but when there are divisions even among the `purer` ones, being sacrilegious too is a matter of perception. Most Muslims do not give a hoot about Islam. It is a convenient ploy. If they did, there would not be so many fissures, as Islam and the Book would not permit it.

Farzana:

I have often wondered why someone from within Islam, not look at the subset of tenets and beliefs of Islam, and bring them out as the social contracts and bill of rights for modern Islamic society? I would assume that a subset would be acceptable to all civilized societies.

History tells us that external forces from societies whose economic well being is threatened, will continue to mount pressure until such a movement comes out from within. This was true in Brahmanic times and Buddhist and Jain reforms came out, I am certain during pre-Christian and pre-Islamic times similar situations must have prevailed. Certainly more recently even non-relgious forces (like Communist countries) triggered changes from within after a sustained external pressure. Within a society there will always be forces that will be the vanguard for such changes who will fight against the forces which refuse to accept a smaller subset. I refuse to believe that Islamic thoughts and socieites are incapable of producing such reformers, and can only produce Osama Bin Ladins. Come to think of it, Mohamad was born in pre-Islamic Arabia, however, great many scholars were born in Islamic times also. May be someone can tell me how many reformers (not enforcers / preachers) have come from within Islamic societies, and what kind of opposition they had to face. I have heard about one Turkish reformer, Ataturk.

Anil

Dear Farzana:
Thanks for an informative article, telling us about the various interpretation of muslim divorce law in different Indian communities; somehow I had assumed that the same law applied to all IMs. If there are different interpretations, to whom will the APMLB interpretation apply, or do the courts use different interpretations for different IM communities? Regarding registration, can either spouse register the marriage or do both parties have to agree to register it? Do you know how many women are there on the APMLB and who appoints/nominates/elects them? [sorry, I haven`t read most of the interacts and you may have already answered these questions.]

``Most Muslims do not give a hoot about Islam``
Or christians about christianity or hindus about hindu religion. Life is beautiful!

Finally, did you publish this article elsewhere too?