Re-thinking Kashmir

dionysus #166
Repeating PTV or jihadi propaganda material here does not serve any purpose to anyone. On more than one occasion I have heard members of Azad Kashmir JKLF complaining that Pakistani`s mindless propaganda and its blatant inaccuracies are undermining their cause.

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#165 nikki `` ``Let`s just invade pakistan , beat the crap out of them and leave....As far as kashmir is concerned nothing`s gonna change.It is time India flexed its` military muscle a bit.``

Been there, done that, came back with a red face and a sore bottom. Were you comatose on Bhang for the whole of 2002??

sadna,
Right now it`s your raping, murdering, torturing, occupying army that is deciding everything for the Kashmiris.


Re:beheading. Please, have some shame. You people have killed 90 000 Kashmiris and tortured, raped and maimed COUNTLESS more. You`re hardly in an ideal position to mount the moral high horse on Kashmir.

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dionysus #162
Well, it is Kashmiris who decide what constitutes their Kashmiri nation - you Pakistanis go argue with them(when you are not beheading them, ie).

Dionysus:

Nobody criticizes Nehru`s role in nation building. Not even the rightists. He is and will remain the father of Modern India, more so then Gandhi even.

Please don`t presume criticism of specific acts of Nehru such as foriegn policy or economic decisions as criticism of Nehru the man or his entire legacy.

In terms of foreign policy, he is criticized specifically for his internationalizing the Kashmir dispute, flawed perception of China and also to some extent being a pesky nation jhadoing lectures.


HP: I think you are underestimating the influence Jaswant Singh has had on Indian foreign policy in his few years. To a large extent he reflected Indian elite`s changing self perception and as I am sure you will agree, foreign policy should be articulated only by the elite.

sadna,
More pathetic obfuscation. Jammu and Kashmir is NOT a nation. Apart from the Kashmiris themselves there are at least 4 other major groups in J & K who have nothing to do with each other whatsoever culturally, ethnically and historically except for the misfortune of ending up through British arrogance and Dogra treachery in an artificial entity called `Jammu and Kashmir`.

Partitioning this artifical entity into three, according to the wishes of the people who live there, is the only moral and practical solution to the dispute.

dionysus #160
``India made pledges to the KASHMIRI NATION. Nothing a third party (allegedly) does can invalidate those pledges. ``

A nation you Pakistanis demand India should split into three. That sort of invalidation is OK of course. And read #95 for what Pakistan has been doing for 20 years.

sadna,
India made pledges to the KASHMIRI NATION. Nothing a third party (allegedly) does can invalidate those pledges.

And how in the Lord`s name can you attempt to take the moral high ground after putting the poor Kashmiris through nearly 20 years of this:



Kashmir `torture` sparks protest


Indian security forces are accused of brutality

Thousands of people have protested in Handwara,
a town in Indian-administered Kashmir, against the
alleged police torture of a schoolgirl.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3880797.stm

stuka & HP


It seems fashionable now among Indians with a rightist bent to put down Pandit Nehru. I am no fan of Nehru. His crazed obsession with Kashmir and his deciet in acquiring and holding onto it has cost the subcontinent dear. But if there is one reason why India is secular democracy (just about) and why it is a nation that builds radio telescopes and publishes world class scientific journals while Pakistan is a near-banana republic and a toy in the hands of the world powers, then that reason IS Nehru.

HP-I wonder how you know that these people are cab drivers. Even if they are, what makes you think they don`t have a right to an opinion,or indeed, that they are necessarily wrong.

#155
``Overcoming their obsession with being ``un-India`` and ``liberators of Kashmir`` would be the best step towards it.?

Then, am I to assume that you diasagree with this HP?

(btw, why HP? a floundering has-been of a company)

HP#155
``Nehru was India’s PM for 17 years. Jaswant was Indian FM or couple of years. His being in RSS does not make him better than Nehru.``

India was in a mess because of Nehru being the Foreign Minister for 17 years. When he died, India was considered a pesky non-entity by most of the world. His spurning US advances forced the US to seek alliance with Pakistan, turning it from a puny neighbour to a military equal. His ``non-alignment`` was a joke as he never found anything wrong with what the communists did and never anything right with what the west did. We are in a mess in Kashmir because of him, he made ill-thought out solemn promises and spent the rest of his life trying to wiggle out of them. Nobody took our sermons about solving all problems peacefully after our military action in Goa. We got humiliated by China because of his naive belief in hindi-cheeni bhai-bhai followed by the idiotic orders to ask an ill-prepared army to ``liberate`` occupied territory from the Chinese - an act which turned China from an equal to a superior from all times to come and even took Nehru`s life. And when China attacked India, none of his non-aligned friends supported India; instead it was the US which not only came to India`s aid but also prevented Ayub from taking advantage of the situation.

Jaswant Singh was truly the best foreign minister ever of India and excerpts from Talbot`s book show why. His remarks were always deliberate and words well-chosen and dead-pan. His logic was forceful. No wonder that during his stewardship -and with Vajpayee`s help- India accomplished the task of improving its relations with every country, including US, Europe, China, East Asia, Iran, Gulf countries as well as Israel. It almost accomplished the task of ending hostility with Pakistan if the men in khaki had not intervened.
Nehru had a grand vision without substance. Jaswant`s was a substantive success because his policies were based on geopolitical realities. Now we have a chamcha of Nehru as external affairs and the intial assessment cannot be called spectacular.

#151 by bongdongs
“Overcoming their obsession with being ``un-India`` and ``liberators of Kashmir`` would be the best step towards it.”

Dimestore diagnosis! These two bit cab drivers think that they are better than Nehru.
Jaswant hits the nerve! My ass! Nobody would remember that moron in the next five years. Nehru would still haunt these RSS lunatics.
Nehru was India’s PM for 17 years. Jaswant was Indian FM or couple of years. His being in RSS does not make him better than Nehru. Hit the rehab back moose knuckle! Or get back to your favorite pastime watching camel toes.

Here is another dolt.

#145 by nakhok
“If Pakistan`s ruling elite actually cares for Kashmiris, it can very easily force India`s hand. Pakistan can hand over ``Azad`` Kashmir to UN with a request to hold a UN-supervised referendum with the options to join Pakistan or India or even to be an independent state.”

After posting Ayaz Mir 50 times, this felon thinks he knows the solution to Kashmir problem. Read these pearls of wisdom above by a dimwit, who knows it all!! Just read and see how sharp this person is to post the UN resolution back as his own!!

No wonder ABV did not hire these buckwheats and malignant leprechauns as his advisors!