Re-thinking Kashmir

#24

The freedom of Kashmir is just a matter of time....

Interesting....this has not changed in 15 years.

In the meanwhile, Indian economy has registered amazing growth rates for the entire decade of the nineties and into the first decade of the 21st crntury. Our foreign exchange reserves have increased by more than a 100 fold since the Kashmir ``Problem`` started. The Indian armed forces have undergone enormous upgrades and moderenization. They have become so adept at exterminating the jihadi vermin, that the rest of the world comes to India to learn COIN warfare. So much so that now, western countries are seeking to become India`s friends instead the other way around.
I think the Kashmiris have already figured out where their interests lie. As is evident from the jihadi whining about the lack of support from the general populace and the improved intelligence the RR and the IA routinely get about thesse jihadis.
There is another thing that may not be immediately apparent to people here. Last time I visited Bangalore, I met a large group of students from Srinagar studying at a local Engineering College. I asked them how many of them were studying outside Kashmir. They told me that almost everyone who did well in hign school/pre-university prefered to study outside Kashmir and the south was a very popular destination. These were a group of happy kids having a great time and getting a good education too. I say the more this happens, the worse it will be for this jihad to continue

HP:

You are either not understanfing the point or deliberately choosing to ignore it.

``It just does not get into your head that anytime you have an insurgency local or foreign inspired, it is a core issue for any country. Would India give up Kashmir because it is NOT a core issue? India’s sovereignty and authority in Kashmir is being challenged and we have some cretins telling us that it is NOT a core issue. The India govt may not say it but they know it is a core issue and that’s why they wanna talk to Pakistan and Kashmiris. ``


Has India ever said it is a problem not to be solved? It is a problem, an internal one. When we say it is not a core issue, what we mean is that it is not the only issue bedeviling Indian-Pakistani relations. Pakistan`s sense of selfe, its identity based on TNT and its implication on Kashmir is an issue. Territorial redistribution is not a core issue for us; though we have a formal claim on POK, we are not interested in changing the ground reality.

``ow a word about this Status quo crap. Why is India talking to Pakistan about Kashmir, if it is a status quo power? Why we have 700K odd Indian army in Kashmir, if India is a status quo power? Why is India calling for solution of Kashmir if it is a status quo power? ......... is a Status quo power then Pakistan is a fauking kick-ass power as it is making India talk disregarding this status quo ``

Rather crudely put but succint. What do you think Status Quo means? It means continuation of present facts on the ground. If you are talking about cross border terrorism, India is not a status quo power because we want Pakistani interference in India to end. We do not want Punjabi speaking members of Jehadi groups coming to India. However, if you are talking about the division of Kashmir we are a status quo power as we are not interested in pressing our claims to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. We are fine with the ground reality.

And yes,Pakistan is a ``kick ass`` pwer because it has managed to bring India to the table at least thanks to Jehadis. Something it could not do for 30 plus years. But I would not pop the champagne as yet. Pakistan is attempting to be the revisionist power. It has not succeeded in gaining since 1948.

The freedom of Kashmir is just a matter of time. When time comes, all idols crumble to ground and all walls are razed.

``Conservative Indian thought will also resent the film’s presentation of the disillusionment of the Kashmirs with Indian rule, as encapsulated through a candid interview with the wild-bearded Hizb commander Syed Salahuddin``

Ha!! A bearded Mullah who sanctions brutalities in Indian kashmir, is leading Jihad against India and gets his bread by sucking up to his Paki military masters is the voice of Kashmir. Never mind that he lives in Muzaffarabad. Good show, pseudo-intellectuals!!

re:#16 by HP
A good and thought provoking post by you.
Those who say Kashmir is not the core issue for India are living in fool`s paradise. It is and as u rightly said, India is trying to behave like a status quo power without any conviction.
I am plain disappointed by this Hoodbhoy guy. He is a good physicist but since when did he become a political anaylist/commentator? What are his credentials. Sometimes ago, he severely castigated the Paki dictatorship (in a conference in USA, where the JKLF leader in exile Fai was in attendance).
Url:
http://www.internationalopinion.com/Pakistans_military_wont_allow_peace.htm

``The Pakistani scholar, professor of Physics at Pakistan’s Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad, was speaking at a Discussion Forum at the California Institute of Integral Studies, here, on August 22. Kashmiri American Council’s Executive Director Dr. Ghulam Nabi Fai, a notorious advocate of independent Kashmir, “Researcher on the Kashmir Conflict” Akhila Raman, Zulfiqar Ahmad, Advocate, Nautilus Institute for Security and Sustainable Development, and Dr. Angana Chatterji, a left-wing, “secular” professor at the CIIS, and frequent contributor to Pakistani newspapers, who organized and conducted the Discussion, also spoke.``

``The surprisingly candid admission by Prof. Hoodbhoy that cross border terrorism has not stopped in Kashmir and that jihadi Islamic groups supported by Pakistani military and intelligence are behind the militancy/terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir was the highlight of the evening.

Dr. Hoodbhoy did not mince words when he also agreed with the position that Pakistani military had not withdrawn from the occupied area of Jammu and Kashmir according to the United Nation’s resolution and that’s why India did not carry out promised plebiscite in the State. Pakistani has been harping on the plebiscite and accusing India of not living up to its promise to the international body. But Dr. Hoodbhoy’s clear admission that Pakistan had not fulfilled its part of the obligation left no doubt as to what is the truth.``

Now, the good professor is either trying to regain his lost reputation in Pak or he is being used by the military dictator.
Sridhar

Same old muck gets repeated the umpteenth time on Chowk!!

The core issue is explicit- it is TNT!!

``Conservative Indian thought will also resent the film’s presentation of the disillusionment of the Kashmirs with Indian rule, as encapsulated through a candid interview with the wild-bearded Hizb commander Syed Salahuddin....``

LOL! I thought that ``PAkistani REporter`` from DD would provide a better story from the ordinary Kashmiris than interviewing a foaming Salahuddin!!

#16 by HP

[Why is India calling for solution of Kashmir if it is a status quo power?]

India isn`t the one that has called for talks. That distinction goes to Pakistan. And Pakistan has called for talks only because it has realized that there is no way it is going to get Kashmir by indulging in terrorism. Not just that, Pakistan has realized that in supporting the insurgency, it has radicalized its own population to the extent that Pakistanis are killing Pakistanis, a situation that is rather unpalatable for it. A consequence of this policy has been been the complete breakdown of law and order that has scared away potential investors. This in turn, has devastated Pakistan`s economy, forcing it to request for debt-waivers and loan write-offs. American pressure in no small measure has also pushed it towrds talks. From one the fastest growing economies in Asia in the 60s to bankruptcy in the 90s is a long way. That in short, has been the story of Pakistan`s failed policy of providing `moral and diplomatic` support to the Kashmiris. Now that its wall is to its back, Pakistan has no way out but to call for talks. India readily agreed, hoping that a resolution of the festering problem would remove yet another hurdle in its quest for great power status.

hold on ppl..

this talk is all crap going on. any readjustment of boundaries is infinitely impossible! a decade ago, the military solution to kashmir, as pakistan used to put it, could have been done. not any more because of nuclearisation of the region.

so where does it leave us? well, we shall talk about talks for a long time. then we shall start talking and the talks shall break down. both countries will go back to previous positions. the cycle will start all over and over and over with new leaders emerging who will think they can perform miracles.

so keep watching the tamasha.

#17 by veeresh

Ya! Ya!! Ya!!! Circling the wagon?

Still don’t get it chump? ‘bout time you read the article again and again until it strikes you that this write up is NOT about what you think it is about.

Well! you do realize that your comments had nothing to do with the write up itself.
Have one on me.

HP/16, ok, I buy your point of view. So let me try to reword mine?

````Let me try to, if I may, place the view from my perspective as an equally avid watcher?

a) Kashmir is THE ``core`` issue for Pakistan. It becomes a reason for Pakistan`s very existence. I see this in all forums in and about Pakistan.

b) Kashmir is THE ``core`` issue for Indo-Pak relations. Kashmir is, therefore, THE ``core`` emotive issue for Indian and Pakistani news media, especially in the Punjabi/Hindi/Urdu belt.

c) Kashmir is not THE ``core`` issue for India. Truly, Kashmir is not THE reason for India`s existence. I do not see Kashmir cropping up in all forums about India.

+++

The day Pakistanis understand this, will be the day India & Pakistan dialogue emerges from the dark cave its been in for the past few decades.

Now, next question - does it suit the benders of minds, the perception builders, to portray this? ````

+++

Yes, I read the article.

re:#4 by Urstruly
The fencing on the LOC is nearing completion. After that, all this discussion on who should have control over the valley will, i think, be academic. LOC will become the defacto I.B. Chew on that, Mr Mullah.
Sridhar

#1 by veeresh #8 by nikki7777

Did you even read the article before penning your valuable input?

It just does not get into your head that anytime you have an insurgency local or foreign inspired, it is a core issue for any country. Would India give up Kashmir because it is NOT a core issue? India’s sovereignty and authority in Kashmir is being challenged and we have some cretins telling us that it is NOT a core issue. The India govt may not say it but they know it is a core issue and that’s why they wanna talk to Pakistan and Kashmiris.

Now a word about this Status quo crap. Why is India talking to Pakistan about Kashmir, if it is a status quo power? Why we have 700K odd Indian army in Kashmir, if India is a status quo power? Why is India calling for solution of Kashmir if it is a status quo power? All India had to do is state its claim and say good bye and that would show that it is a status quo power but it is talking/negotiating for some results and that means some give and take. Come on! Scratch your head couple of times. If India is a Status quo power then Pakistan is a fauking kick-ass power as it is making India talk disregarding this status quo crap.

The documentary clearly has a purpose. The Pakistan army plays many games and I will be hard-pressed to believe that Hoodbhoy does not have connections in the right places. Is there anybody who believes that Hoodbhoy or his cronies would be allowed to make and release a documentary about Kashmir and support a new approach to Kashmir issue w/o some mighty support from higher ups in Pakistan?
The army in Pakistan would never allow anything about Kashmir that is not first cleared by the army. Hoodbhoy is not the type to say things that would irk the army and He ends up wearing the designer Shalwar in the Pindi Jail.
The documentary is being shown in Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore to the Pakistani elite which is already convinced that they need to resolve the Kashmir issue with India then why is Hoodbhoy preaching to the already converted? In fact, Islamabad is 80% federal govt so, now Pakistani foreign office learning about its Kashmir policy from Hoodbhoy? Give me a break.

Here is what I think, I may be wrong; I hope people would correct me.
The army in Pakistan needs to move away from the Kashmir crap now. It is taking up a new role for the US in the area and that new role would eliminate the need for Kashmir as its basic plank to justify its dominant position in Pakistan.
Recently Khalid Ahmed discussed the army and terrorism issue in TFT. He pointed out that the army is keeping the terrorist as it wants to hold on to its options in Kashmir. IMO, Pakistan’s reluctance to go after the terrorist does not come from its desire to have an option in Kashmir. It is keeping the terrorist, as w/o the terrorist somewhere on Pakistani soil, it would be a hard sell for the army to take up the role that the US thinks the Pakistan army should play in the central Asia and the Middle East. (Long term question- Would Pakistan be the new Israel in the Middle East?)
The US is practically begging the NATO countries to supply arms to Pakistan until it gets congressional approvals in the US. Now new arms supplies to the Pak army are a sensitive issue for India. There have to be some Ironclad guarantees for India to believe that those arms would not be used against India in future. If both Pakistan and India are still talking to each and it appears they are, then India already has those guarantees from the US and India would accept those guarantees if Pakistan gives up on Kashmir issue discreetly.
What other things are happening to support my view:
1. Pakistan is re-admitted to commonwealth with support from India.
2. Pakistan is again a favorite nation for EU countries.
3. Pakistan is now a non-Nato Ally of the US
4. Pakistan is admitted to Asean with India’s support and heavy lobbying from the US.
5. Pakistan promised that it will not raise issues w/India in Asean.
6. The US is getting ready to provide massive economic support to Pakistan.
7. The US is looking for ways to find more arms supplies for Pakistan.
8. Pakistan’s own internal set up is being readjusted for long term needs.

This documentary is a PR exercise to convince foreign legions and other interested groups to be ready for dropping of Kashmir issue somewhere along the lines. Who best to sell it- A perfectly acceptable scholar, who is known to have somewhat radical positions on Pakistan foreign Policy- Hoodbhoy.

rather than playing around the issue and blaming india for the unauthorized rule over kashmir or accusing pakistan of fighting a freedom struggle it has no right to deal with, its more important that we try and see what can be done to help save the lives of those being harmed by this conflict. so those of u who talk about social injustics in both countries whether its the zina and blasphemy laws in pakistan or the results of the purely hindu ideology of the BJP, shut up and give those who seek solutions a chance!

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#9

You really need to ask that question?