Re-thinking Kashmir

Urstruly #24: ``The freedom of Kashmir is just a matter of time. When time comes, all idols crumble to ground and all walls are razed.``

Urstruly saab, could you please define how much time? Is it eternity? Your army masters have been saying this for a long time.

Ref Urstruly #24

[The freedom of Kashmir is just a matter of time. When time comes, all idols crumble to ground and all walls are razed.]

Actually, before idols crumble I think the Koran will go up in flames. In fact, an ancient copy did just that yesterday in Srinagar!

#25 by stuka

I will get back to you some other time. There is not point in adding more dimensions to this feeding frenzy and Natak.

stuka:
``But isn`t TNTism justified where two communities cannot live with each other?``

The TNT was not espoused by the panjabis who had no problem living with each other. Yes, Iqbal was a panjabi but he had to go to Allahabad to present his theory.

``Let the valley go to Pakistan and we should kick out the Muslims from Jammu and Ladakh in retaliation of Hindus being kicked out of Punjab``

Kuj soch samajh ke gal karo!...what about the constitutional/human rights of Jammu muslims? And if you are counting on the mob law to accomplish the ``kicking out``, how will you stop the mob violence from spreading to the rest of India?

HP:

No problem


Dost Mitter:

TNT was expressed very well by Punjabis on both sides. More so then any part of India.

I a talking about an actual transfer of populations encouraged by the security forces. It did happen in Palestine in 1948 and in Bosnia as well. The human rights of the Jammu/ Ladakh Muslims can be looked after by Pakistan once they reach there.

Indian Muslims outside Kashmir have never had a stake in Kashmir. It is unfair to hold them liable for what happens in Kashmir. I am talking about a communal transfer of territory and populations in accordance with the demographic mix of J&K.

Kashmir is central and ``core`` on the agenda of the Jehadists who consider this to be a milestone in the overall plan towards the grand polarization of the the world into believers and non-believers. Considering Kashmir as even an issue requiring discussion with Pakistan because the suicide attacks have increased is to concede the right of the Jehadi Masters to negotiate on account of their ability to indulge in perversities.
Kashmir will keep on figuring in the news items for the jehadi violence- and you would keep on wondering why it is happening just as you wondered why 9/11 happened in the first place. By aiding the TNTist and even contempolating upon the possibility of a partition of Kashmir you would be abetting them in their grand fascist plan.

I think Veeresh (#1) said it best and everyone else is just more or saying the same thing in different ways (and accents)

Kashmir means nothing to India, other than being a rather cold place people used to honeymoon a lot in. But the thought of losing Kashmir (what you Pakis deride as the ``atoot ang`` theory) is pretty muc inconceivable, at least for this generation and probably the next. Which is why a lot of Indians are resigned to the fact that this is one problem which is not going to be resolved in our lifetimes. So we just chill and ignore it. As long as there are soldiers willing to go in there and take the heat for the rest of us, we`re happy leading our mundane little lives and making the right patriotic noises every time soneone says ``freedom fighter`` and ``Kashmir`` in the same breath.

One thing has always puzzled me- and Been`a article doesn`t help much here- why would any sensible bunch of people want to join a country as warped as Pakistan when you have a nice alternative like India? Maybe they should have that damned plebiscite huh?

#29 Stuka

Transfer of population along sectarian lines will solve the Kashmir issue? I guess it ``solved`` the problem so well in the rest of india. NOT !

Sorry, I have to disagree. As for students disagreeing with the goverment and throwing rocks in the streets, I saw that happen every week in Calcutta in the 70s. I don`t recall anyone suggesting that certain neighborhoods in Calcutta should be given independence.

The Kashmiris are due a certain amount of symbolic autonomy (in addition to the cultural and social rights they already enjoy) as are the Nagas. Once the violence is more manageable. and economic and educational integration with rest of India is more complete, we should go ahead and just do that. And until then, we have a large population and certain number are happy to serve in the police and military.

Ref stuka #29

[Let the valley go to Pakistan...]

After we nuke Srinagar. And Muzaffarpur.

#31 by stuka on July 5, 2004 8:23pm PT
Kashmir may be irrelevant to your dialy existence economically or otherwise- it becomes ``core issue`` for those who oppose TNT and Jehadism. In that sense the struggle is more at an ideological level- that is why I said that it is another stepping stone for the success of further Jehadism in the sub-continent and hence would be opposed at all costs.

Waisey, I think it is good for Pervez Hoodbhoy to make such a film. To his credit, he does dare to break out of his country`s view on Kashmir. I don`t think someone in Iindia could do that without inviting a major popular or political backlash.

stuka:
``Indian Muslims outside Kashmir have never had a stake in Kashmir. It is unfair to hold them liable for what happens in Kashmir.``

...and because it will be unfair (I agree!), it won`t happen! I thought that you were a realistic guy!
And are you saying that it will be alright for the mob violence to kick out the muslims from Jammu and Ladakh, whether they want it or not? How else will you achieve population transfer?

#39

Thank you. You make good points, more importantly for the right reasons.

stuka #various
So in this communal solution, are we going to kick out Kashmiri Muslims from other parts of India too? Or is it going to be like `you take the land and kick out the Hindus, we are secular so we keep the Hindus and also the Muslims, yet again`.

The Pakistan modus operandi is getting so standard - first drive out Hindus, then kill a lot of people, then declare a Islamic state, no loss because enough people are left behind for you to work for the NEXT Islamic state. Good modus operandi, succeeded for Pakistan, succeeded for Bangladesh, now you are suggesting we make it work for J&K. What is the next success story - NEastern districts where Muslim Bangladeshis have settled?

It is much better to force these Islamic states to live in peace.

And if we have to fight them perpetually, then might as well keep fighting in J&K itself without conceding ground. Agreeing to yet another communal solution will not end the conflict, any more than conceding Pakistan ended it. The only thing which will happen by conceding yet another communal solution is that the location of the war would shift to Jammu or Ladakh or Gurdaspur or somewhere in the NE.

Sadna:

`you take the land and kick out the Hindus, we are secular so we keep the Hindus and also the Muslims, yet again`.

That is the one solution that is not acceptable at all.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts