Re-thinking Kashmir

re: stuka #62

///``I think your idea is flawed. What would autonomy / handover achieve? Make the goons in charge! They would implement their laws and no one can question them. This is exactly what the goons want their fiefdom.``

But at least it would not be our problem.///

Didn’t we try that in 1947? I am not sure it worked…….


/// By status quo I meant that Indians do not have a desire to either fight for POK or give up Kashmir. I think that is in line with current thinking even now. Can you extrapolate your point?///

Stuka I travel a lot all over India and whenever the topic of Kashmir has come up in a conversation I have noticed a hardening of attitudes all over the country. There is a feeling among Indians especially the young that we have almost sorted out the problem in Kashmir and we do not need to negotiate with Pakistan. In fact there is a definite desire to liberate POK.

Regards,


Faruk

I have some questions not related to the board (my apologies in advance):
a) Why do Muslims worship at the Kaaba, which is just a stone, when Islam bans idol-worship?
b) What is the Kaaba made of (granite?) - I am assuming it is man-made and not naturally occurring, since it is a cube. Who built or created the Kaaba?

I could not find the answers on any website, hence the query on this board.

Okay, this is the last chance for hindus to RE-THINK Kashmir....last chance or else......

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sadna#78:
That remark was meant as a compliment to you! Despite my best efforts, I probably still have an of element communal thinking in me.

Bringing people into a different land is like playing with fire. You can see it on the Gaza Strip. You saw it in Bosnia. The idea of bringing Indians into the value for the sole purpose of making Kashmir truly part of India is the dumbest, piece of sh*t idea I have ever heard of. I can already see the deadly war like division that would occur in Kashmir if the muslims vs. the Indians scenario ever came to be. again...PLEBESCITE! FAIR AND FREE! By lumping different ethnicities together under the reign of the hindu government is a bad idea to begin with. A little reminiscent of what happened after Communism fell in Europe and the USSR began to divide up. Bigger isn`t always Better!

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Re: dost-mittar # 77

If you are talking of chopping of diseased limb won’t bihar make a better case.

There is no gainsaying the fact that India has made many mistakes in Kashmir. But things are getting better after the last election. Everyone agrees it was free and fair and the govt. is doing a good job. Tourist’s are back with a vengeance and the law & order situation has improved after the fencing.

Regards,

Faruk

By the way sometimes different groups do find unity together in one nation, and sometimes they don`t. A plebiscite wouldn`t always declare a new country. Sometimes a minority or majority is happy with the other because they bring something to the country. Look at the US for an example. Puerto Rico is still trying to join the US as a state instead of a territory. Latin American Politics are a subject for another day :)

Again every ethnicity has the right to it`s own home. After Kashmir, obviously those other groups will want liberation too. It`s only natural. AGain do your research, this mirrors the break up of the soviet union. If you clump opposing ethnicities together, then you get another Bosnia. Plus Europe couldn`t stand a muslim nation in its midst either.

dost-mittar #85
Thanks but dunno about being less communal-minded! I view it as a long term systemic issue for India, which can not be isolated from the systemic issues in Pakistan(and increasingly Bangladesh). Building fences can not accomplish isolation for India. Pluralist Indians have to address these systemic issues otherwise the exclusivists will. At the same time, Indians need to seriously discuss the things that still remain to be done by the Indian side to make life in J&K less militarized and brutalized.

Faruk#90:
Bihar is definitely more diseased, yet it is a disease of another kind, which will hopefully be curable through normal processes. I agree that things have improved in Kashmir and let`s give the credit where it is due - to Vajpayee who staged the first-ever free and fair elections in Kashmir despite very difficult circumstances.
I think people did not notice that I had proposed giving Kashmiris a ten-year period of autonomy in which to decide if they want to be with India. As I had indicated in an earlier article (Adam Smith`s Invisible Hand and Kashmir), the valley`s economy is now more integrated with India`s than ever. If they are allowed peace with dignity for a period of time, they might decide to stick with India if rationality prevails over religious solidarity. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain by either independence or joining Pakistan.
But if the choice is between living with a chronic illness and radical surgery, I`ll go for the latter.

urstruely

watch out!
Marhattas are invading kashmir riding the 3-tier sleepr coaches on Mumbai-Jammu-Tavi Express.

http://www.rajaranitravels.com/dostekashmir.htm

they even have a tour named LOC (those banias, they make money from anything)

http://www.rajaranitravels.com/kashmir_loc.htm

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I quoted this book on other threads - this portion is relevant here(pg53-54 of Islamist Networks, Mariam Al Zahab and Olivier Roy):

``..There were clear links between ISI and certain extremist movements active on the domestic front and in Kashmir. It was with the aid of ISI that Dawat wal Irshad created Lashkar-i-Taiba in 1990. The ISI changed tactics in Kashmir in 1993 following the attack on a group of Western tourists in Srinagar in 1992; from this date onwards the Pakistan secret services no longer operated openly in Kashmir but cloaked their activities behind intermediaries in what amounted to nothing less than a subcontracting and privatisation of the jihad. They also halted financial support for movements aimed at the independence of Kashmir and only helped those that favored its annexation to Pakistan. This meant that the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front lost much of its influence to the advantage of the Hizb ul-Mujahidin, who was active on the ground and linked to Jamaat-i-Islami. This faction in turn was supplanted by more radical movements at the instigation of Pakistani authorities. Indeed after the destruction of Babri mosque at Ayodhya in December 1992 the Pakistani secret services also aimed to profit from the radicalisation of Indian Muslims by recruiting motivated youths and training them, in Kashmir among other places, so that they would be able to attack Hindus throughout India. Finally, the ISI wanted movements active in Kashmir to attack the Hindus of Jammu and the Buddhists of Ladakh and so frighten them into leaving Kashmir. The Hizb ul-Mujahidin was reluctant to do this, since it wished to restrict its operations to Kashmir, but other movements, such as the Harkat ul-Mujahidin and the Lashkar-i-Taiba, were prepared to extend their activities beyond Kashmir and therefore became, after 1994, the groups favored by the ISI. General Pervez Musharraf, then chief of staff, called on the Lashkar-i-Taiba to reinforce his offensive in Kashmir in the spring of 1999 in the Kargil sector..``

dost-mittar#77

``We have not allowed other Indians to buy property or settle in J&K, unlike Pakistanis who have reduced local Kashmiris into a minority in POK. If we were not going to be moral, we should have done what Pakistan had done in POK and China had done in Tibet to change the demographics of the state to make it more favourable to us.``

dm I don`t know what is the source of your information,you didn’t back it up with any evidence. The fact is that majority of young men from Azad Kashmir have left in search of jobs, to as far as Karachi and uk. It is probably the only region in south Asia where small farm steads are run by women and old men. Who would in they right mind would want to settle in a region, where there is hardly any industry, agriculture is poor due to mountainous terrain of the region, there is constant threat of shelling from across the LOC .

PS if you have any evidence to back your claim please print it.