Re-thinking Kashmir

re:#77 by dost-mittar
You are an idiot to suggest that India should hold a referendum on Kashmir. What next? Should we let the Dravidians (some of them at least) decide if Tamil Nadu stays in India or not. Believe me, there are a large number of sympathisers in TN for such a cause. Only, they do not see any political future in it. A referendum on Kashmir will have a cascading effect. May be, India should hold a plebescite in the Northeastern states also. After all, a lot of people in that part of the country do not consider themselves Indians anyway.
I think people like u need to chill off.
BTW, if u have not watched the movie Lakshya, watch it. YOu will learn why India can never be a friend of Pak as long as a military dictator rules that benighted nation.
Sridhar

#80 by americanFOB
``Back in the real South Asia, I don`t think the dictionary can define the terms free, fair, or justice in good ole South Asia``
Who the fukc are u to judge that? Have u seen any elections in India?
Chowk is now-a-days getting infested with morons.
Sridhar

re:#86 by americanFOB
``By lumping different ethnicities together under the reign of the hindu government is a bad idea to begin with.``
If India were ruled by a ``hindu government``, as u put it, Indians would not have kicked out a right wing govt and elected a sikh as the PM. BTW, India`s President is a muslim.
Where have u been all this time? Jerking off in some corner of USA? Or is it India?
Sridhar

#74 by rahulmal on July 7, 2004 1:56am PT
Listen, I am not talkng about Kashmir as a territorial dispute- I am talking about the ``core`` issues behind this which pertains to keeping the question of TNT open for the IM.
I am stating the fact that IM by their very act of NOT migrating to the fabled land have de-facto rejected TNT- with a few exceptions especially those sponsored by the Drug money from the ISI.
TNT is not an issue that can be opened before the IM now in circa 2004 and that is why Kashmir is irrelevant. TNT was only a historical issue confronting a generation of IM way back in the dark ages of 1947- and those who were for the TNT acted politically in its favour and also migrated to their fabled land which we now know as the land of Jehadis.
So, this question of whether IM accept the raising of TNT by these Pakis in 2004 is not relevant. So who raises the question of unfinsihed business of TNT? this is raised ONLY by these Pakis high on their PAk Studies propoganda or by the PAki Establishment which is run by Islamists, Feudals and the Army which is seething inside with the humiliation of past wars. So, when this character called Barachuta is asked to lay off and act like a normal human being I am just stating the fact that IM are by and large opponents of TNT and hence do not trust the Paki Muslims in raising issues which do not affect them. The IM does not trust them since they know that the very fact that they stand to gain more in a Democratic and Secular country of India and their progress is actually a refutation of the the foundations of the Pakistan which predicts hell for the IM- and hence they actively try to create all sorts of hell for the IM by sending their Jehadis to Indian soil or by internationalizing the Communal Issue by talking about the ``unfinished`` business of TNT in the context of Kashmir.
I hope my advise to this character- ``Lay Off!`` is clear now.

aslam644:
I have watched numerous reports on TV from both sides of Kashmir. While people on the Indian side speak urdu in a distinct kashmiri accent, those in POK speak with a thick potohari accent. No one in POK seems to speak kashmiri dialect. Also, there were a large number of hindus and sikhs in that part of kashmir, who have all somehow disappeared. This is what I meant by changing the demographics.

While there are no hard statistics, here is an excerpt from a human rights sight:

``Main languages in Pakistani occupied territories of Kashmir are Urdu, Pahari, Hindko, Shina, Balti and Broshali. The sparsely inhabited northern and western region of Ladakh and beyond is home to Buddhist Mongoloid peoples speaking Balti and Ladakhi. The religious composition of the State`s population is 77% Muslim, 20% Hindus and 3% Buddhists, Sikhs and Christians. The populations of Pakistani occupied territories of Kashmir (Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan) are 100% Muslim.``
[url: http://www.kashmir-hr.net/mainfile.php/geography/15/]

rsridhar:
``You are an idiot to suggest that India should hold a referendum on Kashmir.``

Thanks for the accolade. But you might have looked at my original post before bestowing the exalted title on me. Here is what I said (post#51):
``I actually support stuka`s proposal sans the population transfer. My caveat is that it should be done through negotiations and not through a plebscite,``

With 77% majority of Muslims in Indian Oppressed Kashmir, Muslims can even change the constitution because that is well over 2/3rd of the population. No wonder Indians need 700,000 guns to stiffle their voice.

You still have to admit that the government in India is predominantly hindu. Hey I`ve done my research. India is also a country with one major religon even though it claims to be secular. My point in my last few post was that plebiscite that is free and fair to all is the only feasable solution. I`m not biased for one side or the other. Kashmir needs independence, whcih it deserves like anyother country. Just like India needed independence from the British. Just like the US needed independence from the British.

Yay, Urstruly!!
Guns are also human beings!!!

#102 by Urstruly

As I said, whine all you want, for that`s all you can do.

#99 by rsridhar on July 7, 2004 8:25pm PT
I saw Lakshya recently- and came out as a very ``sober``, ``matter of fact`` depiction of a small story about the lives of Indian soldiers who were caught in this stupid Kargil war. This question- Why are they doing this?- was clearly raised by the characters without jingoism. It clearly showed the Indian resolve of upholding to their democratic and secular way of life at all costs and that they would do anything to protect it from these fascist and Jehadist dictators. The end result of this tragedy was clear for all of us to see- I hope to see such a sober expose of Kargil from the Pakistani side. Why do not we have a film on the wives and kids of those soldiers of Pakistan Rifles who could not even get a decent burial from their family members because their very identity was denied by the PAki government??

re:#106 by ballukhan
Further to my last post, i think Lakshya is a damn good movie and Farhan Akhtar, a damn good director. With powerful script from his dad Javed Akhtar, he brings out the best from everyone. There is a subtle underplaying of emotions. There are no ``bharat mata ki jai`` slogans, no overdose of patriotic nonsense. Human aspect of a soldier`s life is well shown. It is miles ahead of Border LOC.
May be some Pakistani will someday make a documentary (if not a movie) to show how Pak army humiliated its own soldiers by denying the dead ones even a decent burial. It was left to the professional Indian army to do this task. But as long as Army is calling shots in that country, i do not see such a film will see the light of day.
Sridhar

Urstruly - any stats for army oppressed Pakistanis, esp us minority folks.

re:#106 by ballukhan
I agree.
I think the best seen in that movie was when, after capturing a bunker, one Indian soldier (presumably a muslim) lifts up a phone and speaks with a Paki from across the border. The soldier warns him and ends the conversation with ``Khuda Hariz``. The guy on the other side asks him if he was a muslim in an incredulous tone.
This pretty much sums up the thought process of an average Paki. He thinks no muslim can ever make it in India. After all, was not Pak meant for the muslims of the subcontinen? So, per his logic, if IMs are in India still, they must be living in a hell.
Best way to repudiate an average Paki`s logic would be to prove to him that minorities are not just living in India but thriving well. I think this is beginning to happen.
Sridhar

To #105 :
Just like the Sindhi`s need from the Punjabis, the Balochis from........

re:#105 by americanFOB
``You still have to admit that the government in India is predominantly hindu.``
If u say the majority of Indians in India are hindus, i agree. I do not know what u mean when u say ``the GOI is predominantly hindu``. GOI is a body. It is not a person. Right now, it is headed by a sikh. The party in power (congress) in turn has a christian at its head. So, at he top level, the predominant religion right now is not hindu.
I just feel that you Pakis only think in terms of religion. Ask yourself this question: if Pak was meant for muslims, why are Shias and Sunnis killing each other in Karachi and other places.
Secularism is not just a good idea. It is the only way.
Sridhar

As if 700,000 gun totting war criminals were not enough to gag a whole nation, Indians are building a wall to incarcerate a whole nation in Kashmir. Is it that India is hiding something that is worst than South Korea? Where will it end?