Dear Sisters, Meet Maria Sharapova

Faizahussain, Summaiya, Huma-Mir

I appreciate your contribution to this thread but please keep in mind that the hate speech that Mr. A. Shiraz has spewed here through his article is not a light matter and it shouldn`t be taken lightly. The West has systematically and consistently fed this hatered into their populace thru their scholars, media, and education system for years. They have also employed the services of people like Shiraz to further their agenda; and today this hatered has reached to a point that West is not even willing to consider Muslims as human beings. The genocide of Palestinians, Iraqis, Kashmiris, and Chechens right on our big screen TVs does not even bother them as much as insect shown at the supper time. Since this hate-speech was directed at you - the woman folk - therefore you were the best candidates to respond to it. And I must commend you for doing it in the most decent and effective way. It has become our duty as human beings to stop such hate-speech in its tracks in the name of humanity and decency. I do not want to reiterate the murderous consequences of such hate speech that is exhibit on TV 24/7 now a days in various parts of world.


Nooralain & Zahraj

I am not sure whether you are capable of differentiating between right and wrong but try to learn it before it is two late.

Thank you

#184
Hello Nooralain Sahiba
I believe when Summaiya sahiba wrote, `` Forced and [illegal] and unislamic marriage to the Quran to save property`` she was referring to the custom of marriage to Quran that is still prevalent in some rural areas (I believe its part of Sindhi tradition only, someone else can correct me if I am wrong). As is common in some traditions, women are not married to men outside of family (in order to keep the jaidad inside the family) and if such suitors are not found, then the women are married off to Quran so that the property/inheritance stays within the family. This is wholly unislamic and is a practice based on culture/tradition and not religion. And if you add ``according`` like you have done so in your query, then it lends the whole issue another aspect. Nowhere does Quran instruct a woman to be forced into marriage without her consent; such a marriage is invalid and the relationship is considered haram.

Faiza Hussain

#186
Based on the following post by Shiraz Sahib, ``And I hope to goodness that the girl behind you is your sister because she is really hot (if you don`t mind my saying that).`` (interact number 94 directed to Mantolives Sahib) I still think my hypothesis is more credible than yours. Plus any man of dignity would have done what Mantolives Sahib did after reading the remarks by Shiraz Sahib. Now only Mantolives Sahib can clarify the issue whether it was indeed dignity or his fear of the ``people he was in a fight with on chowk...``

Faiza Hussain

{when the extremist secularists}

let me know when some `extremist secularist` blows something up or beheads someone or starts a violent war somewhere

{Also, you removed your wife`s pic from your member`s page, is it becoz you finally realize that horny men on this website might be wanking with the image of your wife in their mind? }

....maybe he just didn`t want the picture to end up in the hands of people he was in a fight with on chowk...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...could it be, could it be

in #181, summaiya says:

first and foremost, other problems facing the Muslim women should be solved for instance:
* karokari
*Rape and gang rape
* Forced and iilegal and unislamic marriage to the Quran to save property
* a Muslim woman not being allowed to choose her own husband even though Islam has specifically given her rights to do so.
*The stigma atatched with divorce
* sexual exploitation in the work place for females
*literacy
* Right to even use family planning methods etc. etc. etc.
the list goes on and on...

good points summaiya. but do you mean `forced and illegal and unislamic marriage according to the Quran to save property? there is a word missing.

as some of us tried to express in another article regarding hijab, rape is not going to come to an end once sisters dehijab themselves. the constant flashing of maria sharapova`s pictures speaks volumes as to the issue of objectification and image. i am not convinced by the continual satire, the references to body parts, that the welfare of women is being addressed. fantasies are being addressed here, not realities.

have you ever come across missionaries from a different faith who tell you that your existence is nothing until you embrace their faith? zia ul-haq did that to non-muslims in a press conference not too long after he took control. i have seen and experienced western christian missionaries telling me that, and talking about pakistanis in an offensive and condescending manner, much like shiraz and his friend zahra. wimbledon is not the only answer to liberation. maria sharapova is not the epitome of womanhood. and religion is not the only gauze or chain that binds our souls. when the extremist secularists have reduced our religions even more than the extremist religiosos have done or attempted to do, we shall see how the love and concern for dear sisters is translated by the brothers. what i have seen and heard what men have done to women has nothing to do with god or religion. nothing.

i think more intelligent people see through this article and its language, and their silence is more voluminous than i have been.

An interesting MSN group on Pakistan Popular Culture History:

http://groups.msn.com/PakistanPopularCultureHistory

For Dharma:

(I am against the veil myself, Sir! But i do wear a head scarf and it is my own choice )

Indeed a woman is not trivial. I am not making her trivial at all, as it would only damage my own cause. My only contention is that a discussion as trivial as veiling or deveiling should come much later on, if it has to come at all.

Please read the lecture i attached in post no# 150 , by RAHEEL RAZA
MEDIA CONSULTANT/FREE LANCE WRITER/PUBLIC SPEAKER , given to given to CNWE Toronto . here is an excerpt for you:

****************************************************************************
Since September 11, Muslims and especially Muslim women have been under a microscope. Front and center have been Afghan women. It bothers me when Western feminists (with due respect) want to liberate Afghan woman by removing their burka (outer covering) which has become a symbol of repression. Not to undermine the suffering of our sisters in Afghanistan, but the burka was--and is-- NOT their major focus of concern. Their priorities are more basic, like feeding their children, becoming literate and living free from violence. Nevertheless, recent articles in the Western media suggest the burka means everything to Muslim women, because they routinely express bewilderment at the fact that all Afghan women didn`t cast off their burkas when the Taliban was defeated.

There was an interesting news item showing utter disappointment when Afghanistan was liberated and Afghan women rushed out of their homes - asked what is the first thing they want to do - they said they wanted to go to the mosque to pray. If the burka was really their only impediment to freedom, how come we didn`t see them running down the streets - uncovered and supposedly free from all encumbrances?? A recent article in the Toronto Star by Elaine Kamarck, a faculty member at Harvard University, called FREEDOM THROUGH ISLAM, verifies most of what I`ve said to you today in regards to Afghan women and let me quote just one comment made by Rina Amiri who heads the Afghan women movement and says quite clearly: ``we do not need to be liberated FROM Islam.``
****************************************************************************


Dharma, first and foremost, other problems facing the Muslim women should be solved for instance:
* karokari
*Rape and gang rape
* Forced and iilegal and unislamic marriage to the Quran to save property
* a Muslim woman not being allowed to choose her own husband even though Islam has specifically given her rights to do so.
*The stigma atatched with divorce
* sexual exploitation in the work place for females
*literacy
* Right to even use family planning methods etc. etc. etc.
the list goes on and on...

NOw, these are Real problems. A.SHiraz focused on something which is not on the mind of half the Muslim women. First solve these major problems. We don`t need men to tell us how to dress! it is our own choice..

Yes, sir, you are absolutely right, we are undoubtly discriminated.. discriminated by chauvinist Mullahs like Maulanas and Mufti`s ( mind you some mufti`s are very nice, broad minded people, therefore please do not generalise) and discriminated by so called secular Mullah`s like A.Shiraz. Our religion has given us more respect and equality than u can ever imagine. But, it is only people like these who are bent on imposing their wishes on us. Y should we listen to any one at all? why shouldn`t we , the women, decide what is best for us?
Why?

Ammendment to Provisions Made IF a Veiled Muslima Enters Wimbledon

The following ammendment shall be made to the clause :

In light of the fact that the Islamic world has yet to discover under arm deodrants, if you are a Muslima with ambitions to play tennis in wimbledon please avoid the following gestures for the safety of the audience



Has been revised to:

You may raise your arms to render a serve but the committee recommends that you definitely NOT engage in the following :



Once western deodrant technology reaches the Islamic world you may safely engage in exposing the stained armpits of your burqa/veil/vest/waistcoat.

p.s. this is just for the audience`s sake.

as free as we all appear to be here, there is satire, and then there is poor taste:

There may come a day when a woman who cannot hang herself with her Hijab around her neck will attempt to enter Wimbledon to prove that even women with extra layers of clothing can play tennis.

i think swift wrote better satire than this. vaisay hanging oneself by the neck with any kind of cloth is no ridiculing matter. i know women who have attempted this, i had a friend who succeeded. and this man says he loves ``women``?

A tree shall be erected by the court to allow the woman to retract her tail and hang by the branches, scratch her self and yelp her jungle cry (which Muslims refer to as ``Azan``).

this man would dehumanize a woman to such an extent, and then tell us that he loves ``women``?

oh yes, this man wants a free society alright. . .a free society where he loves women as long as they are the way HE wants them to be, in HIS image. the more he posts, in my opinion, the more one has to wonder if HIS idea of a secular society is just as unreasonable and chauvinistic as the one he so venomously denounces.

respect. i see no respect for women given in the above quotes. if i presume to tell this man who i believe he respects or doesn`t, does he not presume with his words, his flourishes, his sarcasm and poor satire to TELL women what he believes they should do?

i think John Milton may have had a point when he said: New foes arise, Threatening to bind our souls with secular chains. it isn`t just about the hijab, or not wearing it, or veiling or deveiling. if you believe that religion chains our souls (personally i felt at one point that my faith freed mine), secularism can also be a chain. why do you men presume to know what is not just good, but best for our souls? isn`t that what priests and maulvis, and rabbis do as well? again, this article is not about freeing women, or wanting women to show themselves so the author can tell them they`re hot as he told yasser aisha is. do women, and men not see the objectification here? does any self-respecting feminist/non-feminist not see this as objectifying and problematic:

Whether a woman adorns herself or not the mere sight of her inspires us men to song and poetry and dreams of glory. It inspires us to invent and to buy and sell, to sail across the seas and fly to the moon and back. The sight of women is the engine of modern civilizations.

no amount of hyperbole that shiraz keeps `thopoing` on us, in my opinion again, can disguise the fact that there is no choice here for some of us, and the message that comes through in parts of post #175 is that women who wear hijab, and veil are not really women. what about women who cover their heads with the pallu of their saris? my nani marhooma, god rest her soul, would have liked to have known that she really wasn`t a woman, as highly respected as she was. no amount of hyperbole can disguise the fact that this article is not really about ``his sisters``. it is more about the muslim ``fathers and brothers``, it is yet another way of expressing his total disgust, which by the way, he is personally entitled to, for the islamic faith. hijaban ``sisters`` just happen to be a part of that faith. when a person cannot accept that their strong personal opinions deny other people their own opinions and their own beliefs, i`m not entirely certain that that person is really all that chivalric a secularist.

Hello Mr. Shiraz

So now you are imposing new criteria to establish the value and worth of muslim women in the world? Ok so we hijabans cant run up and down a tennis court and swing left and right and leave the audience gasping for breath, so you got me there.
But what about our males. I mean comeon, what are you doing here writing articles for a website that doesnt even pay you and wasting your precious life interacting with ppl like Summaiya ji, atif sahib, malik sahib, etc. Young man, go out and get yourself a wimbledon. And while we are talking about dress code, so ladies you think we should get our males to show some more skin just like our ``brother`` demands that we show some of ours. Nahh, i think we will pass on the chicken legs and pot bellies.

I dont think anyone in their right mind can defend anything written in this article.

Hello Mantolives Sahib
Just out of curiosity, have you joined the secularist group formed by Mr. Shiraz? If not, then will you be joining that group. Also, you removed your wife`s pic from your member`s page, is it becoz you finally realize that horny men on this website might be wanking with the image of your wife in their mind? Perhaps its not that bad when some of us girls decide to cover ourselves becoz afterall we live in a world where we have men who ``walk the streets with the feeling that [they] will see someone beautiful.``

I am sorry to make personal comments about both Mr. Shiraz and Mantolives Sahib, but the mere fact that Shiraz Sahib has posted such derogratory remarks about muslim women and the fact that Mantolives sahib seems to support Mr. Shiraz, it seemed apt to question him regarding his own insecurities about his unveiled wife`s pic that was removed.
Please dont get so lost in your ideology of secularism that you yourself start obstructing the personal freedom and rights that your so called ideology promises to uphold.

atif1...

Before you point fingers at others look at your own shameless conduct that led to the deletion of all your posts on unplugged and other places.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

and this folks is what freedom is all about: the right to disrespect other peoples choices and be vocal about it.

shiraz, much as i don`t agree with zahra ji, i will agree with her on this, you DO have a lot of growing up to do. *rolls eyes* good luck with that! do let us women know when you REALLY begin to respect us and love us. we will not be holding our breaths.

vive la revolution!

If a Hijab-an Played Wimbledon

There may come a day when a woman who cannot hang herself with her Hijab around her neck will attempt to enter Wimbledon to prove that even women with extra layers of clothing can play tennis.

Special Provisons would need to be made for such an act of ``Look, Allah, I swing stick for you!``

Proviso 1: A tree shall be erected by the court to allow the woman to retract her tail and hang by the branches, scratch her self and yelp her jungle cry (which Muslims refer to as ``Azan``).

Proviso 2: All the men will have to be asked to stop looking at her side of the court and all audience members will be asked to wear bullet proof vests and bomb suits in the off chance her uncle , brother or concerned Brother in Islam bursts in with an AK 47 or bombs strapped to their mammary glands.

Proviso 3: The woman will need to be x-rayed in the off chance her veils hide detonators to be exploded when she loses/wins the match to another human being.

Proviso 4: Her equipment underneath the veils will need to be verified in case Muslims decide to send the Islamic version of the Williams sisters only this time with really tiny balls-um (shrunken from years of hiding in a cave)

Proviso 5: All members of the audience will have to congratulate the poor girl either way to avoid another :
- declaration of holy war.
- wail of ``you western women think you are free watch me air this veil in the wind``
- howl of ``you western women think you are so pretty watch me in my gucci veils!``
- burst of putrid, infected air (atleast until the Islamic world discovers deodrants)

In light of above, if you are a Muslima with ambitions to play tennis avoid the following gestures for the safety of the audience



Proviso 6: members of the audience will have to wear ear muffs to avoid the shreiks of ``Allahu Akbar`` which the Muslim audience members are prone to utter whenever they are losing a war or an argument and therefore their minds. They may also ready themselves for the ululating in case the girl belongs to the Wahhabi sect and children shall certainly not be allowed inside in case the player is shiite and her relatives are into self flagelation.

Proviso 7: members of the audience will have to be ready with oxygen masks because intelligence reports suggest that Muslim players love bean burritos fresh from Taco Bell (they won`t have meat from the aforementioned franchise because the cows are not slaughtered with the right incantation for Allah).

Proviso 8: if a request to install a small umbrella ontop of the veil is made by the Muslima player, her request will be granted, for though we think an umbrella atop a player`s head will unseemly we realize the cultural requirements of the Islamic faith require that Muslim women look white otherwise no Muslim in his right mind would touch her with a ten foot pole.

Proviso 9: if Muslim women discover that Muslim men still prefer blondes who do NOT wear veils despite winning the wimbledon Muslim women will cease and desist from sueing England, the USA, Israel, France, Turkey or the Wimbledon committee , nor will the make the following accusations :
- ``you white christians are ruining our lives``.
- ``first our men wanted us to get degrees like western women, then they wanted us to work like karanti women now they want us to win tennis matches like karanti women, its all your fault so give us citizenship now so we can move over to the western lands, reproduce like mad and take over your countries and send them to heck as well...``

#summaiya
we are instead arguing on whether a woman should veil or deveil, wear a scarf or >descarf? Shouldn`t we first solve the basic problems of providing food, clothing and >shelter?
woman is a person too, you are making it too trivial. And loss of freedom is loss of freedom. I dont condone a crime because there are bigger crimes being comitted. lets us not use that logic.
you said:
I have merely said that all women should be given a choice to either wear it or not. Their >choice should not be dictated by extremist chauvinists who force them to enveil >themselves, and neither should it be dictated by the so called secularists to not wear it.
I am all for choice. I am only advocating full choice. If that is your stance we are in full agreement. I dont care if a woman wants to veil herself for whatever reasons. Usaully it is because of cultural brainwashing because it is not good for ones health not to have exposure to sunlight. My main argument goes beyond veil to total choice. Please answer to what I wrote in 44:


in#44 I wrote:
seeing muslim male response makes one feel sorry for their wives and sisters.
I can not think of any other set of people who are enslaved more totally than
the muslim women. They dont have right to marry the one they chose, right to
divorce the one they dont like, follow the religion they want, and in some societies the right to drive or to go venture out on their own, right to mongamous relationship,
right to justice after rape, right to wear the clothes they like, and the list goes on.
I am not even talking about cultural practices. I am talking about law! Show me
another group of people who are discriminated as much!