Dear Sisters, Meet Maria Sharapova

Summaiya # 171 - You wrote ``further, i am saddened by the state our society is in. we have sadly, made in this forum, a piece of clothing an issue. this is how we prioritise our problems and needs. instead of focusing on methods to remove illiteracy, or writing on the practically non existent state benefits for the old age, crippled and needy in muslim states, we are instead arguing on whether a woman should veil or deveil, wear a scarf or descarf? Shouldn`t we first solve the basic problems of providing food, clothing and shelter? Our priorities need serious rechecking``


WOW!!!! This is as if I am listening to my own words. How sweet!!! Not sure how long have you been on chowk, but for the last 6 months that I have been here, this is EXACTLY what I have been shouting at the top of my lungs. However these extremist Mullahs like King Arthur Shiraz are bent on taking away our liberties on how we dress!! If it were upto me, I would put mullahs of both types (religious and those like King Arthur) in a room and throw away the key. Thank God there still are sane people in the world like you.

FYI - when Mullah Arthur talks about ``veil`` he is not just talking about face cover, he includes scarf as well. If it were veil, then shocking as it is, I may agree with him to the extent of calling it un-Islamic.

A Compromise On Veiling

Be it now consented that all veiling of women is criminal (see #133).

Be it now consented that veiling though it be self inflicted is a crime.

We may now come to a compromise:

Even though we find all women physically appealing there are some women who may feel they are physically repulsive, too fat, too ugly or too psychologically damaged to show their faces in public.

Such women may walk around with a surgical mask instead of a veil and they may only do so after getting a note from a board certified physician and only if they also consent to atleast 786 hours of counseling with a board certified mental health expert.

This does not apply to all women who walk around the street begging people to make them their concubine or requesting that they be made the second wife, third wife or ...nth wife.

Request for induction into concubinage and polygamous relationships shall be made illegal with/without a note from the doctor or guardian.

Role or cooperation from the guardian or parents permitting such perverse relationships and activities will result in immediate indictment and deportation to an Islamic country of their choice.

Women who wish to be segregated and who wish to exercise their homosexual proclivities by demanding segregation of men and women shall have to get a license from the state that designates their harem as a ``Social Gathering for people of the Alternative Persuasion``.

Such dens of female homosexuality will not prohibit nor discriminate against people who may be of different race (this includes black women), religion, gender (men).

This means that the harems will allow guests to view the Muslim women engaging in their age old religious activity through a one way mirror.

All proceeds from tickets sold to the shows displaying Muslim Women In a Harem shall go towards other charitable ventures such as helping Muslim women who are victim of physical violence, female genital mutilation or stoning, lashing or amputations.

All who agree to this motion to be included forthwith in the legislative body of this free land say aye!

For Dharma- Post # 157:

***Dont you have any responsibility for the millions of women who may not be happy with the status quo?
Please think before you speak. People might be looking for you for corroboration of
their beliefs and you are providing them naively and the status quo continues. ***

Yes i do have immense responsibilty, Sir. Firstly i have never pointed out in my posts that all Muslim women should wear a scarf . I have never pointed out that many may not be satisfied with it.

I have merely said that all women should be given a choice to either wear it or not. Their choice should not be dictated by extremist chauvinists who force them to enveil themselves, and neither should it be dictated by the so called secularists to not wear it.

It should be their own right. We, Muslim females are humans who have a brain and can make decisions for themselves.

Secondly, i also pointed out, that the author should not generalise and should not automatically assume that all Muslim scarf wearing women are suppressed or frustrated inside. Indeed there may be some who are, but on the other hand, there are others who are not. I only elaborated on myself to indicate, FOR EXAMPLE, that i am not someone frustrated or unhappy or some one who does not enjoy life, simply because i wear a head scarf. I was only speaking for myself. There may be females, who may not wear the scarf, and i will not hold anything against them. Infact i don`t. I have many friends, family members and colleagues who don`t.

Once again, the entire base of my argument is that It should be the choice of the female to wear the scarf or not, without it being dictated to them by any one. Furthermore, once again, one should not assume that all scarf wearing females are dying inside, for it would be generalising once more :)

By the way, personally i only vouched for the scarf. I did not fight for the veil, bcause I myself do not indulge it . I therefore, did not preach what i do not practice. I , myself think that a veil is not compulsory for all Muslim females As for the veil not being compulsory for Muslim females , ( note: the difference between scarf: worn over the head but reveals face and veil: hides the entire face and reveals ony eyes), i have only one argument:

The veil was only prescribed for the Holy Prophet Muhammad`s ( P.B.U.H) wives. It was imposed on them possibly because of their position and status as his wives. I have never read any where that the Prohet (P.B.U.H) imposed it on all Muslim women. We are merely asked to cover ourselves modestly.

The wives of the Holy Prophet (SA) were not allowed to remarry after his death. Other Muslim women , however do have the right to remarry after their husband`s death. Drawing an analogy, only the wives of the Prophet Muhammad( P.B.U.H) were asked to enveil themselves. All Muslim women are not ordered to wear a veil . WE are only told to dress modestly. and it is our own choice as how to go about it.

Hope you understand my argument .

KInd regards.


For Ralph- Post no:155:

Hmm.... i have repeatedy answered all queries. The above stated answer for Dharma should be read by you, too.

Anyways, i have one question. I may be wrong and it will be very enlightening if some one corrects me or gives me a satisfying answer:

Let us assume that a particular scarf wearing female wants to partcipate in the Wimbeldon tournament. Let us also assume that she is very good at tennis. Now, if she asks the organisers to relax the dressing rules for her, i.e. let her play in track pants, and a head scarf, rather than the usual dress, should the organisers agree???

If not, should the girl, change her dressing to comply with the requirements of the tournament. If, so, why? Why should she be more complying to them, rather then they comply to her demand ?

Any one may answer this question.

---

further, i am saddened by the state our society is in. we have sadly, made in this forum, a piece of clothing an issue. this is how we prioritise our problems and needs. instead of focusing on methods to remove illiteracy, or writing on the practically non existent state benefits for the old age, crippled and needy in muslim states, we are instead arguing on whether a woman should veil or deveil, wear a scarf or descarf? Shouldn`t we first solve the basic problems of providing food, clothing and shelter? Our priorities need serious rechecking.

Kind regards.

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fiz...

I don`t mean to be rude... but do you see how sad that is ... if that is the one thing in your life that makes you feel good... We will like to know how you feel you are doing something good for the world by taking a scarf ?

Sincerely

Zahraj and Solitude ...

Thanks for your support and kind words... That was a beautiful post... I have known Zahra for a while too from the state side... and she has always been nothing but always helpful and understanding...


Huma Mir,

You still haven`t responded to my question...

atif1...

I asked you for references where I insulted Huma mir ... I posted the post I addressed to her... similarly the post addressed to Summaiya is strong... it can`t be called obscene...
You`ve quoted a response to Hellbound on Unplugged... I have already given a reason for that... Though I really regret giving people like you an opportunity to taint me with the same accusations as you.

-YLH

i don`t mean to be rude but you shouldn`t say anything that offends a particular group of people, i, for starters, take hijab (scarf) and believe you me it is the one thing in my life which makes me a happy and a satisfied woman with regards to doing something ``GOOD``
fiz

Islamic fascist:

An Islamic fascist is a person who seeks to control debate about Islam by controlling what can or cannot be said. The defining characteristic of Islamic fascists is that they launch ad hominem attack on individuals rather than confront ideas and issues.

Ana, people who fit the bill will always be Islamic fascists whether I or you call them so or not.

Solitude:

[I shall not make you feel worse, after all you are my fellow country folk and I would defend you as I know you would defend me no matter what our differences of opinion. If women are one thing I love then the next best thing is the possibility of goodness in men :) and I know you guys are good people. ]

That was a genuine and sweet sentiment. Personally, I do believe in the goodness of human beings, but I cannot stand that human beings = pakistanis or muslims only. That typical ugly mindset disgusts me and I would rather not associate with both kinds. By the way, Chowk or any other cyber ezine is not the right place to seek human goodness. If you have been still under that childish notion then that`s very sad. You have not grown up, Shiraz. Still a long way to go...

On an ending note, I look forward to reading your next article(whenever it is on the horizon) on my recommended subject - `` How to & Why appreciate and acknowledge the choices people make``. If you really want to empower your country men/women then you ought to take the bull by its horns.

Deveiling muslim women and veiling muslim men ain`t the right recipe. Ok!

Bye Bye.

ana

Clear moral principles help one arrive at clear answers. These answers can then be expressed in a few clear words.

Yasser, Zahra just wrote something very important in post #161 particularly the words ``It`s beautiful to let your passion be your guide but do not let it tear you apart. The latter will be sad.``

Dunno about you, I think I could do with this advice also. Zahra has known me for several years and has always been a moderating and guiding influence and even at times a mentor. Although I only listen to her sometimes with the hope of romantic possibilities this lady`s honor is ironclad and spotless and she is in many ways a searcher herself.

Not a day goes by when I thank goodness that I was born on this earth which also inhabits women (in the end I love them all no matter how they are or what they say to me)

p.s. as for the Muslim men who are being disgraceful, gentlemen, I could say: is this what you wanted subconsciously? to defame Islam further with your colorful aspersions?

But no I will say ignore what I wrote above about what I could say.

I shall not make you feel worse, after all you are my fellow country folk and I would defend you as I know you would defend me no matter what our differences of opinion. If women are one thing I love then the next best thing is the possibility of goodness in men :) and I know you guys are good people.

I think its perfectly normal to feel angry and frustrated and upset.

I have taken the liberty to say many things critical of your interpretation of Islam so I will just end with this: landing accusations on here and sundry is just deplorable and unbecoming of gentlemen and simply not conducive to communication. Unless your goal is to cease all communication then be my guest and continue the name calling , I really cannot tell you proud and independet people what to do :)

Atif1: It`s not Manto who needs assistance. It`s you who has deeper issues. I am sure whatever religious line of thought you follow has some special provisions for your kind. Hope they work out for you. Good Luck!

Manto: I do not think that you need to clarify your point to anyone. You have made your point(s) and now you should move on. There is no need to indulge in further discussion on the issue at hand!

Once you relax and are able to see straight then you should realize that there was no need to bring up some mumbo jumbo from other boards to this board. Some of us are not gifted enough to have exposure to such vocabulary. Apparently, it`s something derogatory and in bad taste. Whatever. Well, if you want someone to be condemned, since he has been nasty to you or to your friend, that does not mean that you bombard all the other boards with an irrelevant conversation/abuse/thread. Slap that fellow real hard or kick him where it hurts or provide a counter argument but then move on. It`s disappointing to find you getting into the same old way of interaction. In general, it`s disappointing to see the calibre of many inter-actors (an apology for men) on Chowk. With due respect, the most shameful, deplorable and hypocritical interacts come from NO ONE ELSE but *some* of the mentally challenged ugly muslim men on board. Not that piety was their cup of tea anyway, but the clear cut ugliness was not that obvious. That`s UNACCEPTABLE!

With all said, some people are still better than others. And, the ones who are better than others should NOT let deceptive and conniving forces overshadow their positive energy. You have your own points. You have our own views. You need to learn certain things as well since you are NOT the last word. No one can force their view on Purdah, Iqbal, Jinnah, Manto, Zafar`ullah, Ata-turk or on any other subject on you. Your views are safe. Ok! No one is ready to hijack or kidnap them. They are with you. And, last but not least they obviously portray an opinionated and passionate person. It`s beautiful to let your passion be your guide but do not let it tear you apart. The latter will be sad. The above is an unasked and probably uninvited sermon. In spite of that I am sure you will pay the due attention. Best Wishes!

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``Virtue83, your attempts at spamming accounts will be reported to the FBI and they will be contacting Interpol and other international anti-cyber terrorism law enforcement agencies. ``

What poor way of gaining pity. So you gonna threaten me with FBI/Interpol/anti-cyber terrorism agencies because I support women`s decision to wear a veil. You should be ashamed of yourself for laying such childish claims. Why is it that you think every muslim is a terrorist?

``Dear chowk editors, please ban all those who are beseiging this poor boy Yasser Latif Hamdani and inflicting personal attacks on him. He is all by himself and he is very brave.``

awwww, so cute! little Hamdani kid needs Big bad Chowk editors to come to his rescue. Don`t worry hamdani beta no one can touch you while you have Mullah Arthur on your side.

``My fellows who are reasonable and who are witnessing this ``battle`` (I wish it was of wits) you have a lot of power and influence within you. Condemn the evil practices of this religion whereever it bismirches your name and the name of your country folk. Join hands like steadfast allies with the west my dear lovers of liberty and defy all those who kill, maim, abuse and fight dirty in the name of Allah. ``

There is no battle going on here! So basically you are telling everyone to start condemning muslims. I have yet to come across such kind of hatred in Canada. Why not join hands with the whole world (rather than just the West) and defy all those who kill, main, abuse and fight dirty PERIOD (rather than just the ones who do it in the name of Allah). Don`t you think that would be a more noble cause?

Ralph,

Unlike you. .I avoid insulting and offending a group of people.

If there are Hindu women who still choose to commit sati, and are forced not to do it, because their religion tells them to do so, it is their choice. But as I also said, I would recuse myself from advising the Indian government on this particular issue because I do not wish to impose my beliefs on a group of people, who may not feel the same way I do. If you think that equates to my avoiding the issue, that is your opinion.

I have seen you push your particular point of view on certain people. I have read how you stoop to calling them Islamic fascists, when they don`t even practice their religion because they are conflictual about it themselves. And when they attack you with gaalis, because even if they are conflictual, they haven`t renounced their faith altogether, you call them Islamic fascists. Please don`t presume to tell me what stands I do and do not take when you avoid real issues yourself by attaching labels on people that are undeserved.

It is utterly pointless to discuss matters of faith and belief with those whose hearts are closed. It is utterly pointless to discuss choice, when those who believe we should have it tell us what we should choose. And it is utterly pointless to continue any further conversation on this board.