Dear Sisters, Meet Maria Sharapova

summaiya, it sounds like you feel cornered into wearing hijab. it is upto you, but it seems to me the wrong reason. why should women be punished because some men`s hormones win over their minds.

Re:faruk#251````As long as it’s a choice I have no problem with it, but more often than no that is not the case. It’s a sinister effort to push women out of public roles. Push them into a section of the house using purdah and curtail their social interaction. It holds back Muslim societies the world over. That is why a lot of us oppose the hijab, the veil etc. ````

Ans] C , now you are assuming a lot like mr.A.Shiraz. I have repeatedly asked people to not generalise. There are many scarf wearing and enveiled females who participate in politics ( have you noticed the female MPA`s of MMA in the Pakistani Parliament? :) ), economics, social work; are lawyers, teachers, doctors, etc.etc.etc. For instance notice the trend in scarf and veil wearing women in Bahrain.

BAHRAINI WOMEN VOTING



BAHRAINI WOMAN STANDING FOR ELECTION




Further more the literacy rate for women in the Arab world has increased threefold, while school education rates have doubled. Girls want to use their education to have acreers.In Bahrain last year, more university degrees were held by women than men. This also applies to Pakistan. More and more girls are going to universities and building careers and guess what?..Doing better than most men! :)

In Bahrain, fmoreover,Mona Yousuf Al Moayyed, was the first woman to be elected to the board of the Bahraini Chamber of Commerce and Industry, and is one of the region`s role models. She is also managing director of a family trading business, called Y.K. Almoayyed & Sons, which experienced 20% growth last year.

BEAUTIFUL TV PRESENTER RANIA AL-BAZ IN SAUDI ARABIA WHO WAS BEATEN UP BY HER HUSBAND.


c, another proof to indicate to you that it is the males who need change. Instead of following Islam`s specific injunctions to treat wives kindly , this is what they do! Here is a beautiful and talented woman, loved by S.A`s society, who is beaten by a man , her very own husband. But Rania al-Baz proves the adage that one person with courage can make a difference. When she recovers and returns to work, she plans to do more to help Saudi women fight abuse. What she has done so far is nothing short of heroic.Anyways, i am going beyond the tangent. This picture just goes on to show that Scarf wearing females do have careers and are willing to fight against unfair men who try to impose their likes on them.

Ps. Trust me, no one has as yet made me wear anything by force.! like i mentioned in earlier posts, everything is my conscious decision. :)

Mantolives.

We all got what we deserved. :)

I am not complaining. Its just funny how you didnt paste any of our conversation. heh

Thats all.

Re: Summaya #237
Thanks for the detailed response. I am really sorry for the harassment you faced. But I am not sure taking the hijab as a defense mechanism is a good idea. IMOH reporting them to the authorities as you did is the right thing. I don’t think you should let that low life’s influence what you wear. In fact you should not let anyone change the way you think and behave by force. I am by no means suggesting what you should wear, but wear what you like not what others want you to wear.

“Why do people have a problem with women wearing whatever they want to? Why should they not be allowed to wear a hijab i.e. a scarf if others can strut around in Goth gear or mini skirts? How come it is okay for any one to dress out of the norm and go their own way and not for Muslim women? Did it ever occur to you that it might be a choice not an order or that they choose to cover up in the same way another choose to wear a skimpy baby doll dress?”

As long as it’s a choice I have no problem with it, but more often than no that is not the case. It’s a sinister effort to push women out of public roles. Push them into a section of the house using purdah and curtail their social interaction. It holds back Muslim societies the world over. That is why a lot of us oppose the hijab, the veil etc.

Regards,

Faruk

#247 by nb on July 17, 2004 6:44am PT -- 00181977
if people misbehaved with you, it is their problem, i don`t think that`s a good reason for taking hijab. but you have confirmed what to me is the problem with hijab. what do you think of women who are molested but don`t start wearing hijab? are they asking for it?


Ans]
No! they are not asking for it. These incidences happened when i didnt wear the hijab and i was not asking for it but they still happened with me.Indeed, even hijab or enveiled females stand the risk of being haressed. And so do females who do not wear the scarf.

And it is not their``problem``. They do what they have to do and walk off. it is my ``problem`` whose privacy is violated.

All i am saying is that until males stop treating females like sexual objects and haressing them to satisfy their sexual appetites, it is wiser to dress modestly in front of such illiterate monsters. I contended that i do not wear the hijab infront of friends , family, fiance and people i am comfortableto be around i.e. ones who treat me with respect and dignity. But, in a place where i know for sure there is a chance of being haressed or watched with animal like eyes, i take the precaution of dressing modestly and donning the scarf. For me, wearing in certain places (where a women stands a risk of being haressed) is a necessity.

Quoting what i wrote before:

Personally, a scarf is not the sole criteria for being modestly dressed. Someone can wear a bikini and wear a head scarf as well, but that won’t make her modestly dressed, will it? But, like I said, it is my personal view. I will not impose it on anyone.

Every society or civilization takes certain time to develop. I am glad to know that some men have learnt to look beyond the bodies of females and helped and supported them in their careers and life. However, this is not true for all people. In many Muslim countries, it is the men and not the women who should change; who should change their perverted attitudes; who should change their view of women as sexual objects; who should learn to give them respect. Until that happens, I will resort to wearing the scarf as such experiences have not happened since I donned it. Maybe a time will come when men would be more educated; when they would give more respect to women; when they would learn to differentiate between civilized appreciation and blatant insults; when they will stop harassing females through assault and battery and treating them as sexual objects; when they would learn to appreciate more than the body of the female and attempt to probe into her brain as well; there would then be no need for a scarf or a veil. But, since it is no where near or probable I will continue to wear the head scarf in front of`````` illiterate and perverted fools`````` who know no better.

MantoLives:
Thank you . I do believe that Huma Mir will also take the initiative.

escapist,

You got what you deserved. You had abused and insulted me on a number of forums and the language you had used was far worse than anything I could say... but tumhe to Allah hee poochay ga... Your insults that had elicited my intemperate response were on Hellbound`s Topic on unplugged about Dost Mittar`s Post and My post. That topic was also removed by the Chowk staff for the kind of insults and galian you people were putting up.

It is amazing how you continue to lie on this board and others... and protest innocence.

Is this what `Islam` teaches you?



Summaiya...

I salute your fairness...

As per your request I will not continue this discussion with Huma Mir, provided she doesn`t come up with fresh lies against me.

-YLH

summaiya, if people misbehaved with you, it is their problem, i don`t think that`s a good reason for taking hijab. but you have confirmed what to me is the problem with hijab. what do you think of women who are molested but don`t start wearing hijab? are they asking for it?

respected Huma mir and mantolives:


Could you two, please just move on? I am very sorry to say but you two have made this an ego issue and are arguing like children.

MOVE ON! there are more important things in life than arguing on who said what?

Kind Regards.
Summaiya fo`ad.

Excellent article. Will look out for more of your work.

Mantolives.

Since you are in the mode of explaination. Pray tell where have I used obscene language against you. And Yes you have used very bad truck driver language against me. Which showed me your proper upbringing or lackthereof.

regards.

Huma Mir...

That invective post was typical of you... I think your dishonesty is for everyone to see... that you had to resort Mullah-inspired rumours about a famous personality ... is indicative of the state of mind that you are in... in any event, the great Ataturk is not just my hero... he was the hero of millions of great Muslims worldwide, including the founder of Pakistan who never made his admiration for Ataturk a secret...


``Now let me ask you: have you not made frequent personal attacks against Summaiya?``


Another lie... No I haven`t. My post is for everyone to see... One might not agree with my estimate of her father`s control over her family, but no one in their right mind could call the two posts I addressed to her as `Personal attacks .... Chowk Staff haven`t removed any of those posts... but they have removed posts by Gujjubania and Atif1... the real promoters of obscenities...

Here are the posts I addressed to Summaiya:


Dear Summaiya...

Chains come in many forms...

The truth is that the very fact that you have to quote that you are doing an internship in a law school, swimmer and engaged to a person of your choice... as if these were not your rights ... Your father is a clever man... he gives you your rights as if he was doing you a favor.

Your post might have reaffirmed some blindfolded muslims... looking at the people supporting you... hellbound is a psycho ... escapist is a known liar who has been exposed as such on a number of occasions... however your post the way it is worded is actually a disservice to Islam... and will be quoted as the rambling of a deluded Muslim.


http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00003778&channel=gulberg&start=150&end=159&page=16&chapter=2&order=0#85


Summaiya....

It is not your fault... or the ``liberated`` mother and step mother that you have. It is the fault of this reactionary narrowmindedness that is on the upsurge... sadly because of that preacher of Jahalat ... Farhat Hashmi... I am shocked by how your father has kept you in chains that you are unable to even see his diabolical plot against you.

As for the chowk administration ... they put up a perfectly good piece... Have you heard of a little thing called `freedom of expression`?


Solitude...

Brilliant stuff man... hope you will in future also contribute to `Naseeb Vibes`... which is a Pakistan based site... http://www.naseeb.com/naseebvibes ...


Sincerely

Yasser

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00003778&channel=gulberg&order=0&start=180&end=189&page=19&chapter=2#63


I did not use any obscene language against those who haven`t used obscene language against me... The three people who were made target of my `abuse` were Hellbound, escapist and Atif1.... no-one else... not even Malik99... you say that I often use such language... Please feel free to provide me the link to these `examples` of my abuse

As for Malik99 if you go back and see... I never accused this particular nick of abusing my wife... I merely said I don`t trust people like Malik99 as they might do anything for revenge... it is clear from his posts that he is not a very balanced person... I am not sure that Malik99 does not also pose under different nicks...


The `mother` comment... I said that you have come to malik99`s defence as a desperate mother... this is an expression... infact an expression that is used in many languages... no one in their right mind would consider that an Obscene attack ...


Now be fair and provide some evidence for your lies:


1) Where exactly I have abused you, used obscene comments against you.

2) The links to My alleged abuse of others... especially Summaiya, who according to you I abuse in the most obscene language frequently...

3) The links to my frequent usage of vocabulary that your refer to... Again I take no responsibility for the response to Atif1, Hellbound and escapist on unplugged... He started it.

4) The exact words in which I accused Malik99 of abusing my wife.


Answer these three questions only instead of responding with another verbiage of lies ...

And if you can`t.... stick to the topic... and apologize...

Thankyou

Regards..

-YLH

The Road Ahead: We don`t have to put up with substandard women! We don`t have to put up with this!

Dear friends I just went for a 5 mile run ( under 43 mins at 6.5+miles per hour) and did stomach crunches and I feel better about myself.

I had the picture of Maria Sharapova here:



Look at her! Will you ever see a Muslim woman come close to that? It would not be right if a fanatical Muslim woman did try to do that. A fanatical Muslim woman can put on cloths like that perhaps but she will be rotten and hateful from the inside. A fanatical Muslim woman would never reach the height of physical and mental greatness that citizens of this free world do. Even if she did, she would be twisted and it would be a sad day to realize that the bad guys won the wimbledon.

I am looking at the picture above and I am thinking that I need to better myself both physically and mentally to ever become deserving of asking women like her out on a date (it can happen).

Such are my ambitions and my mother has such a low opinion of me that she is trying to set me up with fat Muslim girls. Why? because these fat ugly women are citizens. Inside however these women are trash not unlike some on the board who stoop to abuse and dirty tricks of intimidation.

Modern ladies and gentlemen westernized, educated and cultivated lets differentiate ourselves from the drab veiled and bearded men and women who are unhealthy both physically and mentally.

Lets rise and realize that the acts of these people render them nearer to their own extinction. I have resolved to abandon them to their vices and their religious zeal and contribute to this free world. I have resolved to be instrumental in their expulsion from free lands where slavery is immoral and so will be the act of veiling and all acts of submission.

What will these veiled women do? When all worthy men and women have abandoned them what will they do? You already witness the exodus of men from Islamic Pakistan leaving the Muslimas to say ``All worthy men have gone to America``. Will they engage in their polygamy? one abusive, bearded fanatic lashing and abusing 4 wives and countless concubines. We shall erect a wall around them and poke holes through those walls so our children may see this human zoo and learn from it. And through the wall there will be a ramp for those who have seen the light and wish to join us.

Lets work on ourselves to make ourselves worthy of this great and free republic!

Solitude,

- Read, Write, Think
- Think, Write, Read
- Write, Think, Read

Chowk`s logo has an interesting theme. The arrangement can be switched based on a person`s leanings. Keeping that in mind, this board owes you a lot for raising some of your own concerns, bringing many perspectives to the table and provoking the interactors to express their sentiments and rationale. Often times, it`s the controversial theme that forces the audience to step up and either fight against your purpose or fight for your purpose or fight with you for sharing that purpose :) Somehow, I think you had a different audience in mind. Mainly, those who are deprived of their basic rights to cherish life. Obviously, those who do not fall in that category will have some resentment on your portrayal. As a reader, I do not have to agree with your drift to appreciate your effort to make a change.

Lastly,

~Hazaar Khauf Ho ... Laiken ... Zubaa`n Ho Dil Kee Rafee`q
Aza`l Sae` Hee...Yae` Raha Hae...Qalan`daroa`n Kaa` Taree`q
[I think I may or many not have changed the order of a few words in the last line.]

Keep that spark and spirit alive.

Mantolives Sahib - You wrote ``It is amazing how Huma Mir has resurfaced days after lying about me``

hmmm....well, after making that ``lying`` comment, I did not go into hiding. I did not become a fugitive from law either :) I was simply carried away by the events of life which warranted my absence from Chowk. It is that simple. But it did not mean that you had to put up my ``wanted`` ads on this board, in your ilogs AND at unplugged, MORE THAN A FEW TIMES !!! :) Are you trying to impress us with your cut/paste skills? :)

So here is what I wrote in my complete post (rather than a convenient half-quotation you provided of my post):

[This ``poor boy Yasser`` is the worst offender himself. He has made personal attacks on me, Summaiya and many other females. For him, other people`s sisters and mothers are a fair game. He regularly tries to shout down women, knowing fully well that these women will never be able to stoop to his level. With all due respect, he needs to learn the manners of debate]

ok, so from your protest, it sounds like you only have grievances about the word ``me`` :) Now let me ask you: have you not made frequent personal attacks against Summaiya? Have you not used obscene language regarding other interactors sisters and mothers? Given all this, I am shocked that you would try to nullify my whole above statement because of one contentious word ``me`` :) It is contentious because you think that during the course of an argument referring to your oponent as ``mother`` is not a personal attack. Since I am used to arguing in a civil and western;) environment, i looked at it as your attempt to personally demean me. Try using it in a corporate environment in US, and you will find out. But I am sure you were just joking with me, after all, it is with you that I have my hopes attached of one day liberating me from the oppression and slavery of my father.

But I should not be complaining. You used worst words for another interactor who had the gutts to relate a personal story on this board. You attacked her father accusing him of ``enslaving`` his daughter. You have also very often used the kind of obscene language that I do not want to describe here. You also hurl allegations as if you have a stockpile collected. Your allegation that malik99 used foul language for your wife is one such example. I know he would never do such a thing and I am waiting with baited breath for the evidence you will produce to support that allegation.

Oh, but then I should not be surprised, after all your hero is Ataturk. Is he the same ataturk who contracted syphlis after frequenting brothels in Istanbul? Quite some respect he gave to women - I am sure he gave generous tip to these women for their services. Nice ``Father of Turks`` !!! A `father` patronizing his `daughters` in borthels and in the process breaking their chains of slavery!! :) Is he the same Ataturk who first forced his wife into dressing like a man in the name of ``equality of women``, but then abandoned her when she began to assert herself?

In any case, I hope you will be able to rest easy now that I have ``resurfaced`` and provided you the answers to your questions. Now just to make sure that I can compete with you in my cut/paste skills, I will post this in my ilog as well as on unplugged. :)

faiza hussain clarifies

--
No its not that I cant handle appreciation of beauty, I find it offensive when any woman, veiled or unveiled, is treated like a piece of meat and not a human.
--

So you do not mind euphemisms such as ``nice``. How can you conclude that someone does not appreciate your humanity if they praise a certain body part or are drawn by your sexuality? If we believe that honesty is a virtue, why cannot one compliment someone (in the nicest possible way, of course; it is possible to use harmless words in a very harassing manner too) with reference to said physical attributes without it carrying further implications pertaining to ``meat``, ``objectification`` and what not. Why distance oneself from the physical? It is logically possible for someone to be in love with your physicality, intellect and spirituality, all at the same time. One does not exclude the other.

You need to re-evaluate your assumptions about Men might mean based on what they say.

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