Religiosity is the Death of Religion

#42 by teshah on August 2, 2004 7:55pm PT
Bhang Cola

The idea is to prepare a fine extract of the bhang leaves and mix it with soda and the cola powder.
Alternatively, you can prepare the extract and then dry the contents and mix it with the cola powder.
I tried the wet extract and it works fine with cola- I am sure bhang cola can turn into a great business plan provided it is legal.

38 by jang

There is lot of Bhang in Islamabad. It seems religiosity and bhang go together as Islamabad is full of bhang. As no new Islamabadi is aware of bhang culture despite being religious of the formal type and being close to Barri Imam they are unlucky to be deprived of its benefits. So, `Bhang, bhang is everywhere but not a drop to drink`. Will any Chowky let us Islamabadies know how to prepare `Bhang Cola` from this bhang?

39 by warpster

How this fraudulent post appeared in Chowk? Chowk editor to please check up and see that such posts do not appear in Chowk again.

#36 by rahulmal

jus a lilttle correction `The belief is that in Shravan month of Hindi calendar` to be as `Hindu Calendar`..
Well, Shravan is considered the holiest month of the year for Hindus of North/South India.Even in South each monday of this month, known as Shravan Somvar, is a special day in Shiva temples where the dharanatra hangs over the linga or the idol to bathe it with holy water, day and night. Devotees pile the linga high with Bel leaves and flowers and fast till sunset. The nandadeep ( 24 hour lamp) burns steadily in the temples.

It`s not religiosity but the kind of religiosity that one can point to as a dangerous and barren notion - but then again, one is making this statement from an entirely other kindof religiosity -- the emmulative religiosity, a religiosity of outward appearances, that has captured the center stage among so many so called Muslims, all can regret.

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i dont understnad how bari-imam co-opted bhang? Its such a traditinonal Bum-Bhole Shiva-Shankar prasad.

Interesting!!

First, let me touch base on Kanwarias, something that has irked the author so much. The belief is that in Shravan month of Hindi calendar, offering milk to Lord Shiva earns a lot of punya. I’ve never seen this in South, so it must be only prevalent in North India. In U.P., all those padyatris make kanwars, put some milk, Tulsi and other offerings and walk to Varanasi to offer it in ShivKasi (City of Shiva). The distance travelled is directly proportional to belief of the person in the age-old custom. I`ve seen thousands going to Varanasi from Allahabad on foot (110 Km by G.T.Road). I`ve never heard anyone in the cities do that, so it must be limited to rural folk.

As for disrupting traffic, it is less painful compared to Shaadi baraats, religious processions, political rallies, demonstrations, and visits by dignitaries. Last week, I got stuck in the traffic because Prez. decided to cut some ribbons in a hospital on Hosur Road.

I`ve never seen Kanwariyas blocking the road. They are generally poor people who go by the sidewalk and kuccha parts of the road. The selective picking on this practise reeks of author`s prejudice.

hamidm....

Bhang is great! It is easily available in the northern himalyan regions.....I am sure it would work wonders for our old man murad ali to try some when he goes to the himalayas to cover the next himalayan rally.....it is a great cure for the disease called puritanism.

``.... so perhaps we are about to enter the age of Kalki where the final incarnation of Vishnu will rise to rescue the world from chaos............``

Chill off man ! Forget all this this apocalyptic stuff..... get some Bhang and cool off your nerves!!

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I am sure some hindu can explain the religious beliefs behind the kanwaria phenomenon-?? What is the story behind undertaking the long religious journey on foot ? What do they carry on their backs? What are the beliefs and vows taken during this journey?
Any one??

Per Freud religious rituals are public neuroses. Religious rituals are very similar to rituals of a neurotic. Only thing that is different is religion is accepted by many and it helps neurotic to hide behind such rituals and not having to have his private rituals. A neurotic who is very ill has a ``private`` religion.

A project to banish rituals is doomed to fail. Until Man`s evolution into Superman. And then may be there will be no need to have religion at all, let alone rituals. Concept of god will not be needed to prod men into moral behaviour.

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jang:28
and what about the mandatory , once in a lifetime, hajj to Disneyland?; The kumbh mela of super-bowl; thanksgiving, Halloween; Santa`s parade and laptop, the gaudy and glitzy ritual of nominations etc etc

``but damn it, it is done in english``, chirp the chips-and-fish gourmets.

there is a movement by some born agains christians to abolist christmas-tree due to its pagan roots. murad should support those guys and hallmark will make sure that he does not get to publish in any auto journal.

Another typical anti-Hindu article coming from this guy... Though this time the attack is very subtle...

The author only mentions the rituals of Hinduism and not any other religions...

How do you define a ritual? Are the Islamic and Chrisitian festivals free of these? In fact, the situation, according to the author, should be worse in India for these religions since they picked up rituals from both the native culture as well as the adopted religions.

And then these guys complain why educated Hindus support BJP+...

- Avkrishna

Agreed that some rituals are irritating and disruptive, but that`s no reason to do away with rituals completely! As it is, rituals are one thing that keeps some of us barely religious at all. And one can`t underestimate their social importance, keeping family and community together.

And yet again- sigh why bother- when one of these pinko liberals writes against something, the specific example quoted is one of the Hindus. What about your self-flagellating Muharram processions and bawling on a loudspeaker in the name of prayer 5 times a day? That doesn`t disturb?

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Superstitions are the back bone of any religion and Rituals, penances, processions and offerings are the basic expression of this superstitious belief. Every new religion from Nanakism to Protestanism is based upon a conscious effort of the founder to segregate his understanding of the superstitions from the established superstitions. Whether it is Kanwarias or the Hajjis, each tries to separate their superstitions from that of others- and for an agnostic both are like blind trying to mock each other about the other`s `incorrect` perception of a painting. Can this gentleman describe which `faith` is `pure` and removed from superstitions and pompousness??

``#6 by hamidm2 on July 28, 2004 9:09am PT
..... a little bhang at bari imam never killed anyone, iman intoxication kills people every day .......... ``

I would say that one must look for the Satanic puritanism lurking behind those shedding tears for the `corruption` in the religions.

``What is the hajj about?`` (PM)

good question --

kul tawaf-e kaaba meiN poochaa yeh DIL se ZUHN ne
butttt gaye iss ghur se butttkhana purustee ruh guee

this knwarian stuff sounds like march of dimes.. you sponsor someone to do the march and donate money. for more info pls go to

http://www.modimes.org/

rituals may be the only good part in religions or religious practice. rest is all dry mumbo-jumbo about atma-parmatma etc. hindu rituals are some of the best..most of them are vedic (read: they survived that means folks like them). dont you dare attempt to make hindu religion dry by attcking the fun stuff. and its ok to invent new rituals, what exactly is wrong about it? leftist bandhs are also a major pain for the populance.

recently a paki muslim lady had a baby shower done by some of her hindu friends. the lady and her mom came for the baby shower, and with their permission, the ladies did an elaborate typical hindu baby shower, with all kinds of garlands, aarti, coconuts and rice and some other stuff involved. there was no god, and much songs and music. the muslim ladies mother was in tears with the overwhelming celebration complaining that her religious practice has become incomparably dry and lacking the party. she also claimed that she vaguely remembers seeing similar stuff long time ago during her childhood.

so, these cool cats want to take away fun stuff from simple folks? shame on them. they should all deserve to get stuck in a Ganesh Immersion traffic-jam.

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A few more such headings:That, when in contrast, would help understand the``problem``.

Materialism is the death of Science.
Moneterism is the death of Business
Sexosity is the death of romantice.
Politosity is the death of democracy
Anarchisity is the death of freedom.

---

It is my religion, your rituals, and his superstition.



As I said there is really no problem.

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Murad Ali Baig is a religious fundoo.....trying out his old anti-ritual nonsense. This
crap is standard commie attack tactics against Hindus.

Rituals are everywhere in our lives. The fundoo knows little about Buddhism or
Christianity and claims that they were against rituals !!! All that is bullshit.
Read up on buddhist practices in Japan, Tibet, China and South-east asia to
know how many rituals there are in Buddhism.

The bigoted Baig tries to cover his up his bigotry by trying to attack rituals and
superstition !!

Murad...
I very much agree with you all the way. There is certainly a difference between the two but it is religion that eventually gets blamed. Good work and very well written.

Let me get it right. Author has a favorite and politically-correct list of reformers/ prophets such as zarathustra, buddha, jesus, mohammed, martin luther, guru nanak....i suppose mirza ghulam ahmed, baha uddin, joseph smith, agha khan, mary alcott, type reformers of ritualism are excluded purposefully. Once reformed, never to be reformed again seems to be his logic of reform. I thought reform by its very meanings is an open ended process.

Nothing is limitless. Rituals, spirituality, morals, cultures, politics,...everything including nature has limits. First you have to agree with the limits, then next step is looking at these things from utilitarian point of view - some mostly symbolic, others mostly practical.

````Muhammad, appalled by the rituals and offerings to 365 idols at the Kaaba founded Islam.`` ``
...blasphemy!! He did what he did after he heard messages from high-up. And he did not found Islam, it is the true religion since prophet Adam!
btw what/who is kanwarias?

``Muhammad, appalled by the rituals and offerings to 365 idols at the Kaaba founded Islam.``

What is the hajj about? Is ONE numerically superior to 365 when it comes to rituals in that locale?

... but I do agree with the thrust of argument you make.

Would the annual Haj pilgrimage be considered religiosity or quiet spirituality of true religion (or perhaps The True Faith)?

After all, airline flight schedules are disrupted, planes fly full in one direction and empty in the opposite direction causing economic havoc, pilgrims are milling around in airports, pilgrimage sites are crowded to the extent that people get stomped to death, etc., etc., etc.

erm...

what is culture? isnt it about a bunch of seemingly silly customs

lighten up dude..

let me take this as an excuse to post an interesting article about symbols and substance..
--

I see a crisis facing the world today. It is fundamentally one of identification. People identify themselves with limited characteristics such as gender, race, religion and nationality, forgetting their basic identity as part of the universal spirit. These limited identifications lead to conflict. There are wars happening throughout the world today in the name of religion.

Every individual is much more than the sum of these limited identifications. The highest identification we can make is that we are part of the Divinity, and second to that, we are human beings and members of the human family. In divine creation, the whole of the human race is limited.

Along with this proper identification of ourselves, the right vision of who we really are, we need to return to the values that are the essence of all major traditions. These shared values need to be reintroduced in society today.

Value the Timeless Aspects of Religions Over What is Time-Bound

Religion has three aspects: value, ritual, and symbol. The moral and spiritual values are common to all traditions. The symbols and practices, those rituals and customs that form a way of life within a religion, are what distinguish one tradition from another and give each their charm.

The symbols and practices are like the banana skin, and the spiritual values—the quest for truth and knowing deep within us that we are part of divinity—are the banana. People in every tradition have thrown away the banana and are holding on to the skin.

This distinction between value and ritual and symbol was made in ancient times. The Sanskrit term smriti refers to those practices that are appropriate to a time and place, those things that are time-bound.

Shruti refers to those values which are timeless. And in the right order of things, what is time-bound is secondary to what is timeless or eternal. Putting religious concepts before human creates havoc.

In all traditions, we find the order inverted. People tend to hold what is time-bound—the symbols and practices, those things which give them an individual identity—before the values. Then fanaticism flourishes and the differences have to be defended. We can see this today in the wars taking place around the world in the name of religion. If we could focus on the values, the larger truth that the symbol represents, then most of the conflict in the world will be resolved.

Symbols vary between religions because they have to do with the relative factors of location, environment and time. The crescent moon and star on the flag of Islam was chosen by people living in the desert region where evening is a pleasant relief from the scorching heat of the day. The sun was chosen as a religious symbol in Japan and in Tibet where it gives welcome warmth and a feeling of elevation. Symbols are relative, but they are intended to lead to something beyond the symbol, to the essence of the religion. We need to reach for the deeper value, not be stopped by the apparent difference.

Practices are also time-bound—how you should dress, what name you are to take, what you can eat, how many wives you may have, how a person should be punished if they make some mistake. In all traditions you find practices like these that were necessary at the time that they were instituted, but they may no longer serve a good purpose today. In the Koran, it is prescribed that if someone steals, their hands must be cut off. At one time, a Christian who wanted to be religious has to take a vow of poverty. Jains were not allowed to touch money—this was solved by having someone accompany them to carry their money for them. Jews could do no work on the Sabbath. For those who follow this rule today, it means they cannot turn on a light switch.

In returning to the values, we will see that much of the misery that has come into the world in the name of religion can be avoided. This identification of values does not require guilt and fear to be introduced. You will find guilt and fear used for control in the history of all the religious systems in the world, but such discipline is not needed today. At this time we need only to cultivate love and understanding.

The timeless values of religions are:
A deep caring for life.
A responsible attitude toward the planet.
Nonviolence
Compassion and love
Friendliness and cooperation
Generosity and caring
Integrity, honesty and sincerity
Moderation in one’s activity
Service
Commitment and responsibility
Peace, contentment, enthusiasm

These values are the foundation of social order, justice and progress. Human values are social and ethical norms common to all cultures and societies, as well as religions. They represent a melding of social progress and spiritual growth.

See That There is Value in All Religions

Within the religious fanaticism that has grown today in the world, you will find a basic lack of understanding of other religions. A comprehensive study of various religions would support the broader view that one supreme and caring Intelligence has expressed itself to different people at different times and in different ways. Fanaticism comes to people who feel insecure. This broader view gives a sense of belongingness while still allowing people to be well founded in their own tradition.

There are ten major religions in the world; six are from the Far East and four from the Middle East. In the Far East, Hinduism is the oldest. Then came Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, Shintoism, and Sikhism. From the Middle East, Zoroastrianism is the oldest, and then came Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Three of the Middle Eastern religions are rooted in the Old Testament: Islam, Christianity and Judaism. In the Far East Shintoism and Taoism have completely separate sources. Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism have roots in Hinduism. The six religions of the Far East have peacefully coexisted and intermingled over the centuries. Buddhism and Taoism have so completely accepted each other that you can find statues of Buddha in Taoist temples. Hinduism accepts Jain and Buddhist thought. Contrarily, the religions of the Middle East with a common root have warred with each other. The brothers of the same house fight while friends live with each other in a coherent manner.

When I was in Japan I met Shinto priests and Buddhist monks. They told me a story of traveling with President Bush of America. He asked a Shinto priest what the population of Shintoists in Japan was. The priest said, “Eighty percent.” And he asked a Buddhist monk what the percentage of Buddhists was and the monk said, “Eighty percent.” President Bush said, “How could that be possible?” And they said, “And they said, “It is possible! Buddhists go to Buddhist temples and Shinto temples and Shintoists also go to Buddhist temples and Shinto temples.” In this story, we have a healthy model of cultures maintaining their identity and at the same time interacting with each other.

And we can find a model in India also. Within one family you will find Jains and Hindus and Sikhs. Individuals are free to choose whatever representation of Divinity they wish. They are not expected to adhere to the choice of the father or mother. This coexistence can happen when we put values first and symbols and practices second.

Sometimes unexpected interconnections between religions are found. If we look at the practices in Hinduism and Christianity, we see that Christianity is a bridge between Eastern and Western traditions, particularly between Hinduism and Judaism. Many Roman Catholic practices are found in the Hindu tradition that are not found in Judaism, the root of Christianity. The use of beads is one example. Beads called japamala are part of Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism. Catholics use rosary beads, but Judaism makes no use of beads. Another example is the use of incense, an ancient tradition found in the Hindu tradition and in Buddhism, Shintoism and Taoism as well as in the Catholic church. There are other links: the use of bells, worship of the feminine representation of God, the presence of multiple alters and icons in both Hindu temples and Catholic cathedrals, food as a part of ritual, marking the forehead with ash, the keeping of holy water in churches and temples, and more.

Sources of Religious Conflict

When we feel conflict between our own religion and others, it may be because we are holding on to the wrong thing. If I say, “Buddha is great” not simply because he is, but because I am a Buddhist, because I have a personal ego identification with the greatness of Buddha, the conflict arises. This ego identification with one’s own tradition is a block to valuing other traditions. It leads to “My God is better than your God” thinking.

Humans have a strong need for an identification—the need to be “someone” is part of our nature. People will kill each other in order to preserve an identification they have made. We see this in the children of the United States who belong to gangs. They will kill to preserve their identity and sense of belongingness that they gain from gang membership.

We need to see that our highest identity is not that of denomination or nationality—or gender or culture or profession or group membership. First we are part of the Divinity and secondly we are human beings and part of the human family. This identification can free future generations of religious fanaticism.

There are certain texts in the scriptures of every tradition that, when narrowly interpreted or misinterpreted, cause misunderstanding and problems. In the Christian gospel, Jesus says, “I am the only way. No one comes to the Father except through me.” The statement is widely taken by Christians to mean that you cannot gain the Kingdom of Heaven unless you believe in Jesus. But Krishna and Buddha also made such statements: Come to me and me alone. I am the only way.

How can we understand the seeming contradiction in the fact that the founders of three of the major traditions have claimed that they are the only way? We need to step back and look at these statements from a different angle. There is one eternal and omnipotent God who is not limited in the way His truth has been expressed through the ages. The one Consciousness that created the world has enormous intelligence and caring for the world. It brings up whatever is needed at the time that it is needed. Can we think that God was not there for all people through all time? Can we limit the scope and mercy of God in this way?

Another way to look at these “I am the only way” statements is that Jesus, Krishna and Buddha were saying the abstract cannot be approached directly, but only though the personal. The teacher, the enlightened one, comes to be a bridge for you so that you can move from that which you can see and know to that which is invisible and unknown, from that which is changing and impermanent to that which is imperishable.

Saying “I am the only way” is also a means of focusing attention. In every religion, there are words offered which bring this focus. Jesus said, “Those who have come before me are robbers and thieves.” He meant, you are thinking about the prophets who came before me and ignoring what is present. The prophets are stealing your minds and attention. I am here and now. Come to me and me alone. Don’t look anywhere else. Krishna has spoken in this way also: Look only here. I and the only one. And Buddha said, “I am the past, the present and the future. I come again and again in every age.” The eternal son of God has come more than once—He has manifested many times. In the guru’s great generosity he returns again and again, bringing wisdom from age to age.

We have many conflicting spiritual statements between religions and we also find contradictory scripture within each religion. As a an example, Jesus is described as the only son of God, but then instructs his followers to pray, “Our father in heaven.” Is there one son or many sons? These things need to be looked into.

See the Unity in God’s Creation

We hear that we need to be tolerant of other religions, but I say we shouldn’t be tolerant. Tolerance means that you don’t like something, but you will put up with it. Respect is a better word. Respectfulness is a quality of divine consciousness. When someone respects you, it is their generosity speaking, not your virtue. When you respect someone, it is a sign of your magnanimity. How much respect you give people in a sign of your own value. When we find the commonality in all religions, then respect will come. Then we can peacefully coexist and build a harmonious environment.

Every major tradition has made a contribution to wisdom. The message of love and service in Christianity is unparalleled. The message of meditation and the theory of mindfulness in Buddhism is unfathomable. The knowledge of the universe and self and life in the Vedic tradition is unparalleled. The theory of karma is unparallel in the Jain tradition. It is not necessary to see one tradition as better than another. All the religions of the world belong to all the world’s people. The Divine has brought forth knowledge in different parts of the world at different times. Each of us belongs to the Divine and can claim all that the Divine has given as our own. Read the sacred scriptures of any tradition and see them from a new angle. They all lead you to the basic human values of love, compassion and joy. You will find no religion that does not advocate truth, peace, service, compassion and caring for life.

The Art of Living Foundation is dedicated to serving society by strengthening the individual through programs that eliminate stress, create a sense of belonging, restore human values, and encourage people from all backgrounds, religions, and cultural traditions to come together in celebration and service. As a United Nations Non-Governmental Organization (NGO), the foundation works in special consultative status with the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) of the United Nations, participating in a variety of committees and activities relating to health and conflict resolution.

For more information about Art of Living courses and programs in your area, please visit www.artofliving.org

For more information about the 5H (Health, Hygiene, Homes, Human Values, and Harmony in Diversity) service programs please visit www.5h.org

For information about the International Association for Human Values, please visit www.iahv.org

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..... a little bhang at bari imam never killed anyone, iman intoxication kills people every day ..........

........... there is nothing wrong with rituals - they are the benign face of otherwise deadly ideologies that have caused endless bloodshed and suffering ......... as long as people are busy letting off fireworks, distributing halwa, singing and chanting, dancing and throwing paint at each other and going to mazars and partying with the malangs, they are okay........ it is only when they throw themselves on a prayer mat and start babbling in tongues that they start hearing voices and turn violent .........that`s when the gods whisper in their ear and turn them into suiciders and homiciders ............

........... before zia-ul-haq reinvented islam and joyless wahabism was introduced, religion consisted of a series of fun-filled rituals - fireworks at shab-i-barat, halwa at shab-i-mairaj, firni at chahar shamba, zarda at eid-i-miladun-nabi, dancing horses during muharram, dancing monkeys on eid, pulao and aloo gosht at funerals and chelums, more halwa at circumcisions and, of course, bhang at the urs of dead pirs and faqirs ............... most urban folks had an extra meal during ramadhan (used to be ramzan) or went to the matinee show, and only the prostitutes were closed for business during the ten days of muharram - otherwise, life went on and everyone was happy ............. then along came ``real`` religion - fireworks were declared haram, dancing and singing was declared makrooh, and visiting graves and mazars was declared to be shirk .......... a joyless religion was adopted, people started eating halwa in secret, young women turned frigid and young men started to blow themselves up ..........

Rituals are wonderful as long as they do not become a public nuiscance. Give me a catholic liturgical mass or an easter/x-mas parade anytime over a dry unitarian congregation.
Religion is like piyaaz ke chhilkay, you can peel and peel to find the inner core but will hardly ever find it. Religious philosophy, however, is something else!

Rituals are fine if there are no state laws about rituals. Religiosity is fine if it is not under the pressure of society.

okay. . .

Religiosity as part of cultural festivites is lot of fun -- Religiosity as part of political activities is a grim deadly persuit.....