Train to Pakistan 2004 - Heading Back

tahmed,
Did you flunk TPW101? Please get a hold of yourself and stick to the topic at hand. You must have a fetish for Mumbair TVs! Sorry, I can`t help you there. But, you can find them in Pakiland, they are all wearing burkas!

Vereesh

Probably your best write up yet

I know you are creative writer, but royal Indian army and Sherman tanks in iraq during second world war that’s news to me.

Because India was still under british rule they preferred to call it british Indian army as some would say ( british Punjabi army).

Iraq wasn’t theatre of war it was north Africa.
#43 khamkha

People in Pakistan may not sleep on pavements, but apart from Islamabad and Mirpur (A.K)
There are slums in every town and city.

there are more people living with HIV/Aids in the US than the entire population of malta

so let us all apply some khamkhwa logic and conclude what a superior nation malta is compared to USA

tahmed pls on your drive on the western express highway (or mobmbay agra road, take your pick) find beauty in the morning lota parade. a traveloue narrating the beautiful lota designs, the aroma in the misty (hazy) morning air etc. only then i will believe that you can find beauty in anything. prove it.

Looks like I missed a lot in Rawalpindi/Isloo. But then, I was in my hotel room by dinner time (sigh!). Thanks for another good read.
P.S. Hope you did a better job of protecting the identity of LG than you did of the highly placed diplomat!

#31 by gujju1

They say beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. Well, the converse is also true. Ugliness also lies in the eyes of the beholder. To an Indian, Pakistan is ugly. To rest of the world, Pakistan is a frontline ally against terror that is prosecuting the war against terror despite its limited resources and opposition from a small but powerful minority.

By re-admiting Pakistan into Commonwealth and ARF, the international community has already slapped India on the face. How many more slaps do you want to bear before you realize that the world does not see Pakistan through Indian eyes!!

tahmed,
I agree that there is poverty and filth in most countries. The only problem is that Islamabad has been established as an anamoly. The ``Islamabad being 15 minutes from Pakistan`` remark is not mine. Peter Jennings of ABC News came up with that gem. The whole issue is for Pakistan to work on alleviating its poverty problems, not camouflage the poverty with an ultra-modern city for the rich and powerful elite. Sooner or later, everyone becomes wise to the obvious dichotomy.

#33 by mumbaichick

+++
I saw enough of Islamabad/Pindi and Lahore to know that India is a much better place to live than Pakistan
...
They have a lot of private parties in the posh houses of the rich.
...
Our jawans lead a much more spartan life style in comparison to the Paki military - they are kings in that country
+++

All the more reason for Indian jawans and generals to defect to Pakistan, become double agents and get expensive land in Pakistan. This way they can atleast send their daughters and sons to the U.S. and eventually even join politics.

Isn`t it strange that despite an impressive FDI and economic performance, Indians can still not afford the lavish lifestyles of the average Pakistani!

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#54

HE

I know u were being sarcastic but as a son of an AVM and having friends from Pak who were Fauji kids I will seriously tell u that your Faujis are way better off then ours. I went to univ here and not one of the Indian Fauji kids had family paying their way except maybe some help. All of us had illegal jobs and some form of aid or the other. Some of the Pakistani civillians were in the same boat. There were those ofcourse who were civil but were obviously from well off business families, and like rich Indians, paid their own way. What really surprised me was the the Pakistani Fauji kids were all paying their own way. Not only that they lived surprisingly lavish lifestyles as well. For example, living in luxury apartments paying $1000 rent whereas Indians were living 4 to a 2 bedroom house in a mediocre area paying $200 a piece.

I am sure you will understand that such a situation really used to piss the Indian fauji kids off as we (in our perception) came from a more powerful country, more powerful army etc and we were living like the kids of rankers whereas the Pakistani Faujis were lording it out.

Anyways, having Romair write ad nauseum about how Faujis don`t make much money, I think they get better perks and maybe the plots etc they get are worth a lot. But there is certainly a huge lifestyle difference. I don`t think I would have washed dishes and delivered pizza if my dad was a major general in Pak Army.

munbaichick/21 - thank you, but please tone down your strident defences, if I may ask that of you in return? Why do I want to go to Pakistan, how about simple curiosity?

tahmed32/22 - well, on the Islamabad 15 minutes away from Pakistan quote, you should have known about it. Interim, what are you planning to rename the Jhelum into?

coolal/27 - yes, I know about the custard apple/sitaphal bit, but I was waiting for the name as in Pakistan. Look for irony . . . see above.

Soulat/35 - no, I am not naive. And yes, I did venture into a few villages, and believe me, the kind of lifestyle in adobe huts/asbestos sheet roofs and lack of electricity therein told me that things are still the same as they were when my father last saw them.

ankit/37 - well yes, there is a mutual paranoia about visitors, though I think my son & I attracted more attention because we used the bottom-end railway route, and stood out for that. On the other hand, to give the Pakistani authorities their due, I would like to think that there also was a genuine concern for the safety of Indians in Pakistan. So, spook or security, take your pick, I think it was a fair mix of both. Do appreciate that at around the same time, there were a few thousand visibly emotional Sikh pilgrims in Pakistan as well as a few thousand visibly upper-middle class excited Indian cricket visa holders floating all over the country without too much demur . . . and apart from the simple fact that Pakistan had not seen so many modern-day Indians in a long time, they were also not doing too well in cricket. I would like to think that the authorities in Pakistan went out of their way to accomodate Indian tourists and ensure their safety, and some of this may have seemed heavy-handed. See, the plods used are the same, whether for security or for counter-intelligence or espionage, right?

malang/39 - the conclusions drawn on where the poor of Pakistan sleep are part observation, part inputs from Pakistanis in Pakistan on the ground and part other sources. As for not letting the poor sleep rough in Pakistan is concerned, please talk and get philosophy from any policeman outside Lahore Railway Station, OK?

jang/46 - didn`t see any hijraas in Pakistan, sorry.

Aslam644/51 - the term ``Royal Indian Army`` has again got some irony in it, as well as a pun on the way sections of our mutual Indian and Pakistani Armed Forces still consider themselves to be Relics of the Raj. As for Sherman Tanks in Iraq during WW2, Sirji, Iraq was a staging area, and like in Burma, there were Sherman Tanks taken there. Just like the camels were taken to Australia by the same Army, too.

jang/52 - on lota parades, well, yesterday`s lota parade areas are today`s horticulturist`s delight. That`s a fact, as any drive on the Vashi-Belapur via SeaWood Drive route will reveal (for example). Or even Marine Drive, for that matter.

dostmittar/53 - Thanks compliments, well both LG as well as the diplomat are ``multiple``, if you get what I mean?

sitaphal are now `shareefa`..an equally chaste name..it still goes by the name of seeta-phal in some NWFP households in Pakistan.

The jokes regarding Islamabad being 15 minutes away from Pakistan/ size of Arlington cemetry though twice as dead are circa 1980s...so way past the best by date now.

His Excellency,
{Isn`t it strange that despite an impressive FDI and economic performance, Indians can still not afford the lavish lifestyles of the average Pakistani!}

If it were the average Pakistani, I would gladly accept the superior/better lifestyle in Pakistan. Unfortunately, just as the beautiful city of Islamabad is a cruel and grotesque manifestation of injustice, the ``lavish lifestyle`` of the patrician military lords is a clear indication of the plight of the average Pakistani. We can see the grand capital and we can smell the filthy town of Pindi, we can sense the royal lifestyle of Faujis and we can sympathize with the needs of the rest of the country. Pakistan is indeed a sad example of contrasts. If the upper class of Faujis got there by accomplishment, trade, sound investing, etc, there could be some justification.

Stuka,
You said it! Things have not changed much. For such a large army with more generals in the army than mullahs in a madrasa, how can Pakistan afford such an expense? Now wonder, the poor country keeps sliding backwards every year.

HE: While I agree the Indians could use a few slaps to get real, I think we Pakistanis could use a few good ones too. Thus, while you are right that Indian attempts at trying to get Pakistan declared a pariah nation (as the BJP tried its best to do in the 1990`s) have clearly failed - the fact is that the only reason Pakistan is a ``frontline ally`` is because we have allowed Pakistan to become a haven for terrorists to begin with.

Let me quote something here:

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us

These are famous lines from a scottish poet (Burns?). The interesting thing is the context in which he wrote them: The poems title is ``To a louse``. It has to do with an incident where the poet saw a woman in church showing off her new hat. What others saw was a louse that was clearly visible on the hat. Replace the hat with the ``frontline ally`` and replace the louse with the terrorists, and you will see what I mean.

Great article Veeresh, I should say the best of the travelogues so far..

Somehow the article is better when the philosophical moorings are less ;-)..

Some of the observations are quite interesting...

Rgds,
Avkrishna