Train to Pakistan 2004 - Heading Back

mumbaichick: I couldnt agree more that Pakistan should focus on poverty alleviation and economic progress. The same goes for India which in many ways has far bigger problems (e.g. the aids crisis, population density, extreme poverty - although pakistan has its own unique problems too).

However, if you look at the chowk interactions, you will barely see anyone discussing anything about poverty. The poor are invisible to the babus - both in India and in Pakistan.

jang #52 you write ``find beauty in the morning lota parade``

OK, brother, you asked for it. Herein lies the beauty: Next time you see the early morning Lota Ceremony in progress, observe the expression of bliss on the face of the individual in question. Michelangelo could never quite capture that on the face of Mona Lisa. As I said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Nikki,
You noticed the dust too? Some other names for this country are ``Dhoolistan`` or ``Khakistan.`` Take it easy Kaurasach, I did not say ``Khalistan.`` :=)

#40 by gujju1

Bhola badshah, nobody’s comparing India and Pakistan here. We know Pakistan is poor and India is the fourth richest country in the world. Comparing India and Pakistan is like comparing the US with Sudan! We know that in the next five years India would be the richest country in the world. Only a simple person like you would compare Pakistan and India.
But why modes of transportation
like this are common in the fourth richest country in the world and that too in the capital Delhi!!
and more like this. Why Gujju why?

Veeresh ji,

Thanks for a good read!! The unique insight that you bring in your pieces is really entertaining, the shady activities going on in the house opposite the ice-cream parlour, the use of animal fat in food, smuggling of spare parts of automobiles ET all.

Probably, the truth is Pakiland is not very different from India. If one is well connected, law is a piece of paper.

How is the condition of infra-structure in Pakistan? Do the poor rely on Railways, or are buses the more favoured form of transport? What about road-side kiosks? Do they have chai shops with beedis and cigarettes, Pan masala and Guthka? How are the roads? And, did you come across collection boxes for Jihad in Kashmir, any violent demonstrations by MMA people?

Did you meet any minority member in Pakistan?

Soulat and Gujju,

Really enjoying your statistical war with pieces of unapealing visuals thrown in :-)

As for India, the talk of fourth richest and all that is sheer nonsense.

As soon as one gets to the customs clearance on Delhi International, you can see officials with a criminal appetite for bribes. Be ready to be greeted with, ``Kya laya hai mere liye?``, ``bahut maal daba ke aaya hai``...For `business` people coming from middle-east and South-East Asia, their suitcases stacked with imported merchandise, it is a routine affair. The prices are pre-fixed. They even know the officers on duty and willingly offer them the gift they demanded last time. After clearing the green channel, you get into a dimly lit reception area with kiosks of pre-paid taxis, package tours and juice shops. The place is dirty, smelly and teeming with at least 5 relatives per visitor. There are shabbily dressed stalkers who would kill for ten Dollars, and philanderers who spit phlegm and paan on the corners. The departure is a shade better, but a far cry from anything in the West. The New Delhi railway station makes one feel bad about this stinking place being the capital of India. The filth and poverty is straight from a documentary depicting squalor and hunger of the third-world. The traffic outside Nizamuddin attests our status as the second most populous country in the world, so much for our claim to global dominance.

The stats only illustrate that there has been progress after reforms and opening of economy. We are still mired in poverty, ignorance, backwardness and illiteracy. There are islands of prosperity in a sea of hunger and deprivation. I know I sound like a communist, but this is the naked truth staring us in the face. The upward movement of the economy has accentuated the problem by highlighting the gap between rural poor and urban middle-class. We can either wax eloquent about the successes of Premji and Kiran Shaw, or try to educate the children of Kallu and Billa if not Kallu and Billa themselves. The latter is not possible if we close our eyes to pathetic performance of our successive governments who have squandered every opportunity to make us a better fed, better clad nation. The result is 1 of 3 Indians can`t read or write, and 1 in 4 live in abject poverty.

#56 by HisExcellency

[To rest of the world, Pakistan is a frontline ally against terror that is prosecuting the war against terror despite its limited resources and opposition from a small but powerful minority.

By re-admiting Pakistan into Commonwealth and ARF, the international community has already slapped India on the face. How many more slaps do you want to bear before you realize that the world does not see Pakistan through Indian eyes!!]

You`re only deluding yourself if you think the world does not think of Pakistan as a country that breeds terrorists. Here`s what the NYT has to say about Pakistan`s `support` to the war on terror.

Pakistan Allows Taliban to Train, a Detained Fighter Says

Excerpts:

``In an interview in late July, in front of several prison guards, he said Pakistan was allowing militant groups to train and organize insurgents to fight in Afghanistan.``

``Mr. Sohail described his recruitment through his local mosque by a group listed by the United States as having terrorist links, his military training in a camp not far from the capital, Islamabad, and his dispatch with several other Pakistanis to Afghanistan.``

``He did not give all the details that intelligence officials said they gleaned from him in interrogations, but he talked easily about his party and its leaders, and said they had high-level support from within the establishment.``

``It is an open secret in Pakistan that groups supporting separatism in Kashmir have not stopped their activities, despite official declarations, and have continued to train men and infiltrate them into Indian Kashmir. Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage said during a visit to the region last month that Pakistan had not dismantled all the camps used to train militants for Kashmir.``

``A Pakistani official interviewed recently described Mr. Sohail as a ``one-off case,`` and denied that Pakistani militants were showing up in Afghanistan.``

If the ubiquitious ISI could not locate a camp not too far from Islamabad, something`s surely wrong.

``Western diplomats in Kabul and Pakistani political analysts have said that Pakistan has continued to allow the Taliban to operate to retain influence in Afghanistan.``

Now did I hear a slap on your face??

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tahmed
``Next time you see the early morning Lota Ceremony in progress, observe the expression of bliss on the face of the individual in question.``
There is not beauty in human degradation, so dont generelize, some things are ugly.

Veeresh being a foodie shows. Also i am glad that he did not recommend Vodka in tumblerfull of cracked (but not crushed) ice, with a splash of Rooh-Afza topped with a mint leaf :-)

Meat-eaters have interesting ways to bring out food flavours. In Irani hotels of the past, milk pored in Tea (Chai) had a beaten egg in it, giving it a luscious creamy body. (offcourse, this was not advertized).

Veeresh, one objection/observation I would have is that your travelogues though full of very keen observations, did not ``market`` the place. I mean, did not make me feel like getting-up and visiting the place. Most travelogues (at least in travel section etc) tend sell the place of interest.

67

````Somehow the article is better when the philosophical moorings are less ;-).. ```

should be read as

``Somehow the article is better when the philosophical musings are less ;-).. ``

Sorry for the error..

# 71

Gentleman
This may be true in the case of those who are professional carriers and go to and fro to bring in illegal stuff or they try to find ways to avoid customs duty. Customs in India has improved a lot. Normally one is asked to open the baggage if Customs find electronics goods while doing X-Ray. Otherwise, with liberal customs regime most of the people leave through Green Channel without much of harrasment.

Regards

HE

I think arjun # 75 is correct in his assessment. There is no need to hide or manipulate the truth. It is absolutely clear that Americans do not trust us, so the pertinent question is should we trust them. If we shouldn`t then what we should do about an unreliable and extremely aggressive lawless entity.

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Urstruly

Post # 77

Quote:

If we shouldn`t then what we should do about an unreliable and extremely aggressive lawless entity.

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Is the term *should* not very strong/premature here, given that it is not very clear what *can* (referring to the capabilities of the doer or a potential doer) be done?

*Should*, on its own will not mean much unless it flows from *can* (referring to capabilities of the doer or someone who wants to do it)

So first it has be to clear what *can* you (not you personally) do.

arjunm

````We`` as in ``We the people of Pakistan`` or ``we the ruling class that relies on American support for our schools with petting zoos and we`re willing to bomb our own people for that``?``

I don`t know. Ask HE or Romair; they staunchley support the murder of Pakistani people thru their unqualified support to the fauji murderers.

And I think you know about my position anyway.

rajsingh

I don`t think we can afford the luxury of lexicography at this critical juncture.