Twilight of a Passionate Love Affair

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Malik99 and Urstruly -

Allow me to chime in here. Actually the points that you two are arguing with Mantolives, he has already agreed to on previous boards

- he is on record for agreeing to setting up a system of government as advocated by Jamaat -e-Islami. It is true that when he agreed to that solution, he did not know that it was Jamaat-e-Islami solution. He later reversed his position upon finding out the JI link. But the fact that he did agree to JI`s position clearly shows that if Mantolives were to get rid of his baseless bias and hatred, he is on the platform as JI. It also shows how confused Mantolives is about his own convictions

- he is also on the record for FINALLY blurting out that mullahs are not the real culprits in Pakistan - they are merely the ``allies`` of the culprits. This is a significant change since up until now he has been harping day and night about how Mullahs have single-handedly ruined Pakistan.

Peace

Malik99...

I am very sorry to learn of your desperate condition i.e. you are a pathological liar. Sadly your continuous need to lie about me is a more serious condition. The post you are responding to isn`t even on this board... but thats alright. You can call me a hypocrite all you want... but I am afraid the only hypocrite here is you... and I think your last 10 posts are aptly indicative of it.

You are right that our struggle is not the same... I said it sarcastically but you are not very bright are you... In your world... just like Ashcroft... the best way to deal with `dissent` is to ``lock up and forget``.... ... this is your world... you are basically a Closet Bushist

My struggle is legal and democratic... as long as Mullah Fazlurrahman or you for that matter don`t do anything violent or illegal... I don`t support your detention or Fazlu`s for that matter... my attempt is not to exterminate physically the mullahs or put them in jails but rather to defeat them with force of reason... and given your desperate and lame comebacks... one can see that you have nothing to offer...

Now go back to making a fool of yourself...

-YLH

PS: Just because you said so... I am also putting this up in ilog...

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Dear Mantolives -

Your care and concern for my well being brought me to the verge of tears. If it weren`t for your hypocrisy, my tears would have actually rolled down my cheeks.

It just so happens that yours and mine struggle is not the same . While my struggle is against a thuggish government that imprisons its citizens without charges; that attacks and destroys the whole countries; that terrorizes the world with its weapons of mass destruction - your struggle is against the mullahs who barely make it to the parliament . If you want to have the same struggle as mine, I ask you to stop supporting Musharraf`s governemnt which has taken a leaf from the book of American government in terrorizing its own citizens.

My dear brother, I do agree with you on one count that extremism needs to be curtailed in pakistan - it is against the teachings of Islam. And when I say extremism needs to be curtailed, i mean people like Fazlur Rehman and you need to be locked away and forgotten.

We don`t think that people like you, who admire people like Arthur Shiraz (who routinely calls Islam `a desease`) are the right people for this struggle in Pakistan.

Please keep me in your prayers

Sincerely

Malik99

P.S: Could you please NOT post the same post in your ilog AND in the interacts. Why not just post it at one place?! It causes me the extra work to look for where else you have posted the same post and then cut and paste my response. :)

mantolives - you wrote ``About your earlier post... your objection to Christianity being superior to all religions... is it something you have against christianity... ``

No I have nothing against christianity. My point, which seems to have escaped your attention, is this: america is a declared secular state. And if the Attorney General, the enforcer of justice in land, makes a statement that Christianity is better than Islam, then he is in violation of the law of the land. If he wants to make such a statement, then lets stop being hypocrite and declare america a Christian country. That would make his statement less disturbing.

Persoanlly, if a similar statement was made by the Attorney General of Pakistan (although it is a decalred Islamic Republic), I would be disturbed too. Islam does not give us the right to call other religions evil.

Malik99...

tsk tsk ... One really can`t have a decent conversation with your type .... you are back to your old theme of name-calling as usual. I am referring to your post 67 ofcourse. I have neither spewed venom about the 3000 deaths on 9/11 nor have I ignored Iraqi deaths... all your accusations are merely figments of your imagination. Unfortunately this is the only tactic you know, because never once on these boards have you come up with a credible evidence other than garbage with no roots in reality. If I am the poster child of the `enslaved elite` as you say... you are also a poster child... indicative of all that is wrong with the Muslim world today... you know... the filthy poverty stricken, emaciated and ignorant little scumbag carrying an AK 47 Toy gun complete with an Al-Jihad headband...

About your earlier post... your objection to Christianity being superior to all religions... is it something you have against christianity... or do you really believe that no one has the right to claim their religion superior? If you really believe that ... will you admit that the state in Pakistan has no right to place Islam over all other religions? Or is it that your fight for equality starts and ends with Christianity`s oppression and the US Constitution?

So yes the American invasion of IRAQ is wrong... and morally unjustifiable ... Now let us see you say a word or two about the extermination of black people by the Arabs in Darfur.... oh you don`t know where that is now... do you? You can wail all you want about America`s crimes... but when it comes to crimes by your own co-religionists... you are completely and totally silent... Darfur for your information is in Sudan... that great Islamic country from Africa...

Yes... like I was saying ... the American invasion is wrong ... it is wrong just like Muhammad Bin Qasim`s invasion of Sindh was wrong... Tariq`s conquest of Spain was wrong... Mahmud`s pillage and plunder was wrong... the Ottoman Empire`s conquest of Eastern Europe was wrong... Mughal conquest of India was wrong... Imperialism is Wrong... period... so I mourn the deaths of Iraqis... but will anyone mourn the deaths of those millions of people who died because of the continuous Muslim imperial conquest spanning over 10 centuries?


First get over your hypocrisy... then make grandiose claims of equality and humanity. Those who live in glass houses can`t throw stones at others

-YLH

I have most of my family in canada and I know as many people in canada as in US on a very personal basis. I believe Canadians are living in a lalaland....I wish them good luck and should enjoy it as much they can..because we know lalllands don`t stay forever. Also they can afford to do so because real bad americans are living next door otherwise as much as we know about Canadian military might, even our Romair with his brigade would be enough to conquer the lalaland and then we can ask Urstruly to make sure lalaland complies with the Godly shariah.:)

doblec:
I love Canada but do not overlook its warts. I cannot say I fully understand what this young man or you went through; I am one of the very few lucky ones who was sent an air ticket for me and my wife and a lucrative government job awaiting me when I came here, if not, I would not have had the courage to leave a decent job in India to come here.
I think that the Canadian immigration system is quite unfair in some ways both to immigrants and to Canada. People were/are selected based on their educational qualifications and professional experience by the federal government but most provincial governments and private employers do not accept those qualifications as valid in many cases. This means unemployed and underemployed doctors, for example, while communities are in crying need for their services.
On a humourous note, when I was in immigration canada and the anti-immigration sentiment in the country was at its height (early 90s) I made a sarcastic suggestion to some of my colleagues. I said that they should make a frozen igloo at -30 degree in the annex of Canada`s New Delhi High Commission and make every prospective applicant spend one hour in it to ask them if they still wanted to apply for immigration. I also seriously suggested that they should show films to prospective desi immigrants about how their wife and children would talk back to them and how getting physical with their wife could send them out of their home and inside a prison.
Canada is a wonderful country but people should be fully prepared for what they can expect once they get here.

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Wajahat # 57 - I could not have said it better. You would see the anger and venom spweing from this liberal mullah aka Mantolives about the 3000 dead on 9/11. But when it comes to the 100,000 plus iraqi innocents dead, this confused man either stays quiet, or rationalizes with pseudo-intellectual statements.

Someone (or was it me?) has correctly labeled Mantolives as the poster child of confused enslaved elite in Pakistan.

Also, your response to stuka`s confusion on exactly what constitutes ``profiling`` is right on the mark.

Good job!

Dear Mantolives -

Thank you for your caring advice. I know how much you think about my well being. It brings me utter sadness that I am so far away from such a caring friend. Now please don`t advise me to leave this world too, since I find it to be so full of misery.

One way to fight hate is to flee - like what your relatives did. The other way is to stay and fight. I intend to be here and contribute my efforts to rid this country of the thugs who have hijacked it. I intend to do my part in making sure that never again an Attorney General takes office who calls christianity to be superior to other religions. I intend to make this country a better place than I found when I landed here. This is God`s land - Halliburton does not own it (yet).

If my little contributions make a difference and stop the US government in the future to bomb Lahore, I think that it would be worth it.

Regards

jang - indeed there is God`s will in everything. However, it does not absolve thinking people like you and me to forsake our responsibilities. Jews did not just sit around for Palestine to be handed to them. They conspired, fought and terrorized their way to occupying that land.

Dost-mitter,

You post on a letter from Dawn really painted a gloomy picture of Canada. Since you live here i would like to know what your views are of this beautiful country.

Each year over 200,000 people come to Canada to make it their homeland and only a small percentage goes back. This place requires hard work and if people who come to this country with the frame of mind that they will have the same luxuries that they had back home are the ones that are the first to go back. We all know how most people get good jobs back home (especially in Pakistan). Merit is hardly considered there and i guess its difficult especially for those people who are used to the ``Safarash`` culture back home. Personally i had made up my mind that i will do anything regardless of it being in my field or not. I came with the frame of mind that I`ll work hard and do whatever it takes to get pass the first few ``tough`` years. I went through the same difficulties that the writer (in Dawn) whet through but i never gave up. I now lead a comfortable life and am sure that i could not have had the same luxurious if i had spent the same amount of years in Pakistan.

I have known people who came here with little money and in 3 years did courses, found a good job/business and bought houses. I have also seen people come here with loads of money, waste a big amount on rent (because they liked to live alone) and then go back because they had to work and do house chores.

A middle class person coming from Pakistan will easily survive in Canada compared to ones that were filthy rich back home.

To do justice to Canada you have to post a success story as well as what the letter in Dawn said represents only a minority of people.

Dear Malik99 and Urstruly,

My dear brothers ... if both of you are so unhappy and persecuted in the United States, why don`t you follow the sunnah of the Holy Prophet (SAW) and do hijrah to a country that does not persecute you. Honestly I am not saying this sarcastically... but I think both of you have enough means to move from your current abode... and since neither of you own the US as your country (it would make sense if you were criticizing the US because you were dissenting Americans), then I don`t see why both of you are still sticking it out there. I have seen Urstruly in the past condone the attacks on twin towers, so it is clear that he thinks of the US as `Darul-Harb`....

Please don`t respond with the usual answer of material difficulties and financial worries... surely that shouldn`t stand in the way you pursuing your idealism.

Sincerely

Your brother in Islam... but not in bigotry and hypocrisy

YLH

Mantolives 53

Please dont takes this personally, but I think your post was aimless.

The Analysis in Romair`s article was never about how Bad Americans are as compared to the Good Canadians. It was merely a personal piece about personal experiances through the 9/11 period.

You have been leading what I call the Confused Liberal Mullah Bashers group here at chowk for quite a while. You write and I quote ``Good People are found everywhere``, does this in anyways apply to(In you views)the Islamists, the Mullah and the freedom fighters in Najaf. I think the problem is with your biased views of world events and not with this article at all. The problem is that the small minority of Elitist Liberals and your levels of confused righteousness has caused historically the current polarisation in Pakistan and amongst Muslims in general.

From you post it is evident that you feel that the American Actions since 9/11 are justified because of what happened then, well on that note, you might agree that the Iraqis might feel the same at what is primarily an American drive to bomb, Rape Iraq for the last two years, with a far greater loss of life than 9/11. And dont give me the balloney about the saddam hussain episode because that in view of the current event is non issue. One evil replaced by a far far bigger evil.

Feel free not to share your views, As I have already lost all interest in them, before you even touching your warrior laptop.

Rgds

W