The Mystery of South India

In a criminal justice system, a defendant is considered innocent until proven guilty.
Similarly in science, a theory is considered a WHIM until it`s supported by substantial evidence.

We don`t need evidences to disprove AIT, we need at least one evidence to approve it, and so far there is none.

In fact there is similar theory proponding westward migration of large populace that inhabited the regions of saraswati river, following the sudden change in river`s flow which caused it to flow underground, due to continental drift. Considering that the breadth of river averaged between 3 to 5 kms, the population supported must be enormous.

Now there is scientific evidence which traces down the underground flow of this river, and even today we have the large traces of the river called Saraswati in Rajasthan and Gujarat which measures int erms of kilometers. Also there are words ``Harhati`` in Persian and ``Harahvaitî" in Afghanistan which further hints at westward migration.

Chec out this link for more:
http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/miscarticles/tve.html

Now you have two theories each starting with a premise and and one of them (Saraswati) having both supporting and challenging evidences. Which one would you support? That depends whether you value science and truth or preconceived notions designed to benefit your socio-political cause.

I am interested in what you have supporting AIT or refuting westward migration of Saraswats.

veeresh: ``for the truck/bus driving and maintenance skills of the Tamilians. ``
This has been recognized by the indian army. most of the EME core seems to be madrasis.

Southies also drink Arak (arabic influence?) so do the Singhala. Then there is the Goan Feni, Cashew feni smell of .... In Madras, i was intrigued to find a XXX Rum labled ``Shivas Regal``, a very Shaivaite touch.

Sridhar is offcourse an Iyengar (its a Krishna name) and is offended by you calling Rekha (who is a dark Iyer) Iyengar.

Andra folks have featured prominently in some recent sex frequency surveys. The astonishing numbers could only be justified based on either boasting or propensity toward saying yes-sir. Coastal Andhra women are the most beatiful women of entire india, if not the world (including kashmir valley). Actress Jayaprada would be a simple-looking girl in her village. They seem to have adopted their genes from Temple carvings.

Veeresh # 53

(the one I really suggest is this transparent fire-water made out of coconut in and around the Tuticorin (South TN) area, a bit like ouzo . . . add water and it turns cloudy . . . best drunk with goat mutton biryani and washed down with large amounts of fresh curds)

Ouzo in Mediterranean, Araq in Turkey - sonf ka paani

The way you talk about food and drink - maza ley ley kar - I will be surprised if you are still safe from excess weight, blood pressure or diabetes. just kidding!

My good evening is simpler and cheaper - once in a while red label with water/ice - aloo gosht curry - daal masoor - with some green chillies for that chillie high. And something like Ghulam Ali, Jugjeet or Mehdi Hasan aound.

Rest should be all free - cool breeze, lush green surroundings. company.

Were the films `Ankur` and `Julie` filmed in South? They had this kind of environment. From the air, the South looks absolutely lush green - dark green with vegetation.

#55 by AlephNull on August 5, 2004 10:03pm PT

[Actually pachadi (Tamil/Malayalam) is the rough equivalent of raita for North Indians. Yogurt alone would be thayir.]

Thayir pachadi (curd pickle) is a common preparation in most Tamil households. It consists of small pieces of onion, green chillies, dals, and some spices. It is the equivalent of raita.

Sorry, missed out on the most important ingredient

#55 by AlephNull on August 5, 2004 10:03pm PT

[Actually pachadi (Tamil/Malayalam) is the rough equivalent of raita for North Indians. Yogurt alone would be thayir.]

Thayir pachadi (curd pickle) is a common preparation in most Tamil households. It consists of yogurt, small pieces of onion, green chillies, dals, and some spices. It is the equivalent of raita.

#53 by veeresh

[Tamil Nadu has the highest per capita consumption of alcohol.]

Wrong! Kerala leads the pack. Check the following piece.

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20040712&fname=Kerala&sid=1

#54 by rsridhar on August 5, 2004 10:03pm PT
Sridhar would be an Iyer or Iyenger???

#60 by dost-mittar

[Is the reverse true as well? If so, that would be a true differentiator of Kerala, because hindus routinely visit dargahs, etc. in north india as well. See Adnan Alavi`s on his visit to his home town.]

Legend has it that Vavar was a ferocious Muslim bandit who looted travelers that passed through the dense forests of Kerala. Lord Ayyappa (the deity of Sabarimala) defeated him in a battle and when Vavar expressed remorse, he forgave him. Vavar became a close friend and ardent devotee of Ayyappa. When Lord Ayyappa left his home for his abode at Sabarimala, he expressed the desire that any devotee who wished to come to his temple at Sabarimala must first pay obesiance to his friend Vavar and only then proceed further. It is not a mosque in the sense that no human-worship takes place in a mosque. Also, the caretakers of the dargah distribute vibhuti (sacred ash) to the pilgrims, which is more a dargah-tradition than of a mosque.

nikki7777#47:
It would appear from your post that druze have assimilated into other christians in south india. I had asked the earlier question because the Syrian-Lebanese druze are unique among muslims in that they believe in some sort of reincarnation. I wondered if there was any connection between south india and this druze belief.
I have visited the church of Saint Tomas in Mylapore, Chennai. I found it somewhat amusing that christian worshippers going for a `darshan` of the saint removed their shoes before entering the sanctum-sanctorum.

kabuliwallah#58:
I believe that the chinese martial arts originated in the buddhist monastries, as the monks used these arts to defend themselves against marauders; so there may be a connection here.

``The fact that Hindu pilgrims who visit Sabari Malai MUST visit the mosque first before climbing the hill, speaks volumes about the tradition and tolerance of Kerala.``

Is the reverse true as well? If so, that would be a true differentiator of Kerala, because hindus routinely visit dargahs, etc. in north india as well. See Adnan Alavi`s on his visit to his home town.

SameerJB # 57

We always tend to miss out the earliest Euro-Indian culture of Peshawar valley - the Gandhara. This Greco-Desi amalgamation have left behind a complete school called the Gandhara Art - which is as neglected and as little publicised like much else from the past.

Also, the Roman shoes with straps comes very close to the Peshawari Chappel not to speak of the Pathan features and something very orderly and systematic in their genes. (a little corrupted now with too much of a theology doze in some of them)

NHK

re # 49

Aleph Null,

The temple of Shaolin, which is like the headquarters of martial arts, is widely believed by many historians to have been established by Bodhi Dharma, a Buddhist monk from Kerala. I think Kalaripayattu and Chinese martial arts are cousins. Even wall meditation, a form of meditation, where a point on the wall is used to obtain dhyana, is believed to have been articulted by Bodhi Dharma.

Kerala is probably the best example of tolerance and diversity from among the South Indian states. The fact that Hindu pilgrims who visit Sabari Malai MUST visit the mosque first before climbing the hill, speaks volumes about the tradition and tolerance of Kerala.

Kerala boasts of many other famous personalities, but my favourite among the present lot is Jesudas. Arundhati Roy is a close second...now only if she didnt indulge in self-promotion.

regards

Kabuli

#50 nazar Hayat......

Partially true. If Punjab was a jungle, Sindh a desert...so was the rest of southasia. Maurya dynasty was almost obsessed with the area and Chandragupt as well as Ashoka spending most of their lives in the area. Their armies consisted of mostly people from the region that falls in Pakistan. Alexander and Porous war almost certainly a draw or Porous having slightly upper hand. That is why, he became more powerful after the war by acquiring areas between Ravi and Chenab rivers. Since the account of that famous war comes to us through two Greek historians, it is almost certain that they put the best possible spin on the events by not looking Alexander losing it. As far back as during Archaemenid (6 BC) rule over the area, the record show that this areas generated second largest revenue for the empire. Additionally a whole regiment was raised for Persian empire which fought battle with Greeks during Xerxes infamous conquering of Athens but ending up losing due to losing fleet in the narrow chanel. So the first contact between desis and Greeks took place 150 years before Alexander invasion which was sort of revenge for destruction of Athens by Persians under Xerxes.

whatever condition the region was in, was about fair under those conditions. The contact with the people from all over the region is proved by large number of people accepting Buddhism all along the Indus and other rivers in the area. Even going further back in time, reveals centers like Harrapa, Mohenjo-daro, Kot Diji and many more decent size settlement and thriving culture with contacts with the mesopotamian settlements (proven by unearthing bones of horses which are not native to the area).

re: this article
Nice attempt Nazar Sahib,
There is a lot of integration going on between North and South in the last 20years or so. I, myself am a South Indian (TamBram) who grew up in Delhi and am more fluent in Hindi than in Tamil and am now living in the US.
You mentioned Sangam period as starting at 200 BC. I think the purists will disagree. It started much earlier. Some Tamil historians contend that Tamil is more ancient than even Sanskrit!
More about your article later.

#8 by warpster
Rekha is an Iyer. She is the daughter of famous Tamil actor Gemini Ganeshan.
Sridhar

silly #52

{{Small correction, pachadi is pickle not yougurt.}}

Actually pachadi (Tamil/Malayalam) is the rough equivalent of raita for North Indians. Yogurt alone would be thayir.

re:#26 by anil
You are right about the migration.
During a train travel from Madras to Bangalore about 2 years ago (on my visit to India), i was amazed to find the compartment filled with North Indians (mostly Punjabees, one Bihari). I was the only South Indian in that compartment. All the NIs were well settled in Bangalore with some business interests.
Sridhar

Captain Sahib, a great read through, as always.

There is no one specific attribute that we can ascribe to the South in India, but here are a few anyway . . . and I have done more than my share of travel/stay there, by sea, by road, by rail and by foot . . . as a shippie, as an operational person for shipping companies, as a salesman, as a son-in-law, as a wanderer, as an election researcher etcetc.

a) The male-female ratios are just about equal, or maybe slightly higher for women. As a result, there is none of the frustrated/staring kind of stuff that the women have to undergo in parts of the North. Besides, emancipation of women is generations ahead in the South, amongst other things, even traditional Muslims have ``women only`` mosques there now.

b) Education of a ``real`` sort is given high priority. Do anything, but do well in maths and/or music and/or humanities and/or physics etcetc. Hygiene and education are very strongly linked, even in the poorest of poor households.

c) Traditions going back centuries tend to cross newer religious afffiliations. This is very interesting to observe in areas where no on religion (Hindu / Muslim / Christian) is less than 10-12% of the population. The whole concept of ``minority`` changes when a minority crosses 10%, and this is something I learnt while researching elections there.

d) Social activism, often misconstrued by us impatient lot as obstructionism, is an elevated art form. Whether it is denial of ground water to Cola manufacturers, or efforts to move whole districts out of tobacco farming for established MNCs, South India is the place.

e) I personally have great admiration for the truck/bus driving and maintenance skills of the Tamilians. Philosophy of the gentle co-existence sort is in my opinion best experienced with Kannada taxi-drivers, as any visitor to Bangalore may tell you. It is another fact that much of the spare parts industry in the South has got a Punjabi Sikh face, maybe all this is just my perception.

In addition, the closer you get to the coastal areas, the more you understand the dictum of ``live your truths``.

Popular liquor? Well, toddy of various sorts, the one I really suggest is this transparent fire-water made out of coconut in and around the Tuticorin (South TN) area, a bit like ouzo . . . add water and it turns cloudy . . . best drunk with goat mutton biryani and washed down with large amounts of fresh curds.

As per the excise figures I read somewhere but now forget the source, Tamil Nadu has the highest per capita consumption of alcohol. So much for the image of the booze-swilling North Indian.