When Balochistan bleeds, Why Pakistan Doesn’t Feel the Pain?

Political problems have political solutions. Military remedies would further aggrevate the situation. Such distrust towards the government of the day results from the ``NAB ENGINEERED`` representative assemblies. Bring back the true leadership into the country and give them the space to negotiate and restore order. If these guys are currupt, let the courts decide it once for all. When military institutions have given ``certificates of non curruption`` to all the ``currupt`` ministers of the previous regimes, then what is wrong with their leadership. If Chaudhry Shujaat is innocent so is Nawaz Shareef, similarly, if Faisal Saleh Hayat is ``clean``, there is nothing wrong with Benazir. If war is too sensitive a business to be trusted with Generals, governance is a far more sensitive issue.

The theory here is similar to the perception of the Western nations towardas Asia, Africa and the Middle East but on a different scale. Western nations think of everyone else as ``savages who need to be reformed and westernized``. It is exactly the same logic in Pakistan. Remember East Pakistan; the West Pakistanis thought of Bengalis as poor and hungry savages. Then it was primarily the Jamaat-e-Islami and the military. Today it is still the military and the Muhajir nexus. The thought being that if you are not Punjabi or Mohajir, you are illiterate and hence dont matter.

#208 harish_hyd

[I think TNT has come back to haunt Pakistanis of all persuasions. That is why you see this ``us vs. them`` debates all the time. Balochis and Sindhis are unhappy with the Punjabis, the Pushtuns are unhappy with everyone else, civilians are unhappy with the Army, the moderates are unhappy with the Islamists, and so on and so forth. ]

No, it has nothing to do with TNT. It has to do with the nature of people - of the region now called Pakistan - evolved through long history of trails and tribulations. Each group on any basis learn to maximize their group interests in a variety of ways. The hsotry of the people now comprising Pakistan, if I am not mistaken, is taught more than the hisotry of the people of Orissa or Kerala in India for certain definite reasons. There are other reasons besides just being on the western flanks of India and first to face the invaders from the west. You may call it frontier mentality of the Indus people but it is decidedly different from many other nations/ ethnic groups of the subcontinent.

People of the region of very independent minded and more than Islam or TNT, it is actually threat of ONT (one nation theory) of Indian nationslism, constantly fed through various means that keeps them Pakistani because they hope to enjoy more power in a smaller unit than becoming insignificant in the sea of more than a billion poeple. Moreover, they know that in a lrger and more powerful country like India, they could be ignored or crushed more easily.

TNT is actually a blessing in disguise of Islam for these people - given no option of being independent - who never thought for any reason to be part of larger subcontinent and history provides ample proof of these people being on their own during good and bad times, for more than 1000 years.

Actually this characteristic of the Indus people can be used for the better. But it has to start with more regional autonomy and more feeling of masters of their own destiny than present strong center and basically army controlling everything. That is why I am all for promotion of regional cultures at the expense of Islam as the glue that binds people of Pakistan. Islam has provided a bonding in the 57 years of Pakistan history but it has also given rise to side products which we are seeing flowering now. As a chemistry background person, I consider Islam as an excited state bonding ( high energy, unstable, require constant input to keep it intact, high enthalpy etc) whereas culture based bonding as ground state (low energy, more stable...due to various factors).

Pakistan must learn from the two opposite experiences, that of Mughals and British. Mughals kept them excluded and people ignored them, made jokes about them and did not do anything to stop the decline of Mughas despite being mostly Muslims. In case of inclusion by British in governance, they provided them with horses, soldiers, progressed and prospered (relatively speaking). Inclusion and feelings of master of their destiny are the keys for promoting harmony in Pakistan

I think TNT has come back to haunt Pakistanis of all persuasions. That is why you see this ``us vs. them`` debates all the time. Balochis and Sindhis are unhappy with the Punjabis, the Pushtuns are unhappy with everyone else, civilians are unhappy with the Army, the moderates are unhappy with the Islamists, and so on and so forth.

I think all Pakistanis should just get together and agree to disagree with each other in a civilized fashion. Disagreements need not necessarily be resolved through abuse or violence. All Pakistanis must get about the business of creating a better future for Pakistan instead of bickering with each other. Too much time has been wasted already fighting, thus bringing Pakistan to the edge of the abyss.

I think TNT has come back to haunt Pakistanis of all persuasions. That is why you see this ``us vs. them`` debates all the time. Balochis and Sindhis are unhappy with the Punjabis, the Pushtuns are unhappy with everyone else, civilians are unhappy with the Army, the moderates are unhappy with the Islamists, and so on and so forth.

I think all Pakistanis should just get together and agree to disagree with each other in a civilized fashion. Disagreements need not necessarily be resolved through abuse or violence. All Pakistanis must get about the business of creating a better future for Pakistan instead of bickering with each other. Too much time has been wasted already, thus bringing Pakistan to the edge of the abyss.

your article really touched my heart. we need to do something to improve the situation. i`ve seen that a lot of Pakistanis have become indifferent to the sufferings of not just people from other parts of the wold but even to the sufferings of the people from our own country. its about time that the politicians and our leaders quit the policy of using force to solve problems. we really need to start believing in the power of peaceful dialogues.

#204 HP: It is true that Baloch sardars have bled Balochistan as much as the various central governments. I think that can be applied to some other parts of the country too where feudals, khans, sardars and others have been in control. That is the so-called elite class in Pakistan. Armed forces` officers, industrialists and businessmen have also joined the club to leech the masses.

But what you and other members of the forum think of the newly announced Senate committee on Balochistan? Do you think it will bring any good?

I doubt it. Most of the problems are related to true democracy and provincial autonomy. Today Pakistan is being ruled under a highly centralized system - worst form of the `One Unit`. Military has usurped most of the powers that belong to the people and the provinces.

As we all know the military is a big enterprise in the country now. It is in business and in industry. It has occupied almost all the higher level and even many of the middle and lower level positions in the government, semi-government and other sectors. Will they let go any of it to accommodate civilians? Doesn`t Pakistan deserve a little better than being an armed forces` estate? Shouldn`t armed forces go back to barracks never to be seen by the civilians? Shouldn`t the political wings of the intelligence agencies be done away with?

Please consider how Pakistan can establish itself as a modern country where all the people have equal opportunities, equal education and equal rights. Where no one has sole claim to patriotism and all the citizens are truly equal. No more, no less.

Narejo,
There are some factual errors in “Baloch” account. He also forgot to tell that Mengal’s son was also a chief minister of Balochistan and did not do much to help people out there. Anyway that is politics in Pakistan.
Yes! I remember General Sharov’s death in ‘93. He was a great man. Sardar K.B. Marri’s politics has changed after General’s death. He is a moderate and more incline to compromise then he ever was in his earlier days. It is unfortunate that Bizenjo is dead too. He believed in negotiations but was a better tactician then other Baloch leaders.

Balochistan is in worst spot it could ever be. Talk about a rock and a hard place. The US wants to go in the Iran and probably would use Balochistan to mount attacks or for infiltration. Baloch still can’t stand the Irani attitude. This is strange but Mullahs in Iran have not changed policy about Balochistan from the Shah’s days.
I hope things turn out better for Baloch. They have suffered a lot from Sardars and the central govt in Pakistan.
Independent Balochistan has become a dream for many Baloch nationalists. They ignore that Iran, Pakistan and US would never let that happen. The first step would be to get some political rights restored and then move towards independent but some of our Baloch leaders still live in a dream world.
Btw, I did have a chance to hit SAtribune forum. I am not sure of this Baloch guy. He lacks the emotions of Baloch Nationalist and some of his facts are not accurate but I think when people just rely on memory alone they are bound to make some errors.

#186 -- kkkandk, sorry dont really come on chowk that much or would have stepped in to lend a hand -- yes nothing wrong with that -- do they have a copy of your (gasp) passport ???

#201 HP: I agree with your analysis.

As news reports say Mr. Attaullah Mengal has already held two meetings with higher-ups in Islamabad. Third high-level meeting is to be held soon. After the second meeting it was indicated that the government is putting on hold (or slowing down) its work on cantonments until further talks.

Musharraf’s point man Tariq Aziz who met Mr Mengal in Islamabad has already held a meeting with Bugti. He may soon go to Karachi to meet Mr K.B. Mari.

It is also reported that Jamhoori Watan Parti, Balochistan National Party, National Party and K.B. Mari’s group have jointly presented a 35-point agends to the government for talks. The government has asked Baloch leaders to present names to form a committee to hold talks.

Lets see what happens. One only hopes they will come to a resolution through talks that will bring good news for the common men, not the ‘elites’.

And yes, we haven’t seen much about Dr Abdul Hai Baloch in press.

Here I quote interaction by someone from Balochistan who has just signed as ‘Baloch’ at a similar discussion on satribune. I don’t know who he is but readers of this forum may know few things about the present resistance movement in Balochistan and its connection with ‘sardars’.

Here he goes:

“Some of you might be interested in knowing a Baloch` perspective about Mr. Mengal.

”Mr. Ataullah Mengal is the leader of one of the biggest Baloch tribes i.e. Mengal. He is one of those who Pakistani minds have been taught to hate as the people behind everything that goes wrong in Balochistan. He was the first cheif minister of Balochistan in 1971. The Government lasted for ten months. One of the accusations put forth by the Federal Government to justify the sacking of the mengal government was that they were planning to secede away from Pakistan. Mengal, alonwith other Baloch leaders, were put in jail. The Baloch insurgency of 70s started after that. After being released from jail in 1978, he left for london, stayed there for a long time. Recently, he came back, and is currently being the spokeman for Baloch liberation forces.

”Mr. Mengal lacks the credibility with the Baloch forces. He has the tendency to compromise with the establishment. If he was given a choice, he would not believe in the miliary route for liberation of Balochistan.

”What most of the commentators do not know is that this insurgency is neither for the cheifs, nor by the cheifs. This is an independent movement, having links in the Baloch sardarless middle class. The sardars (Mengal, bugti and marri) can no longer enter a Baloch household, without being asked by angry gaze of the Baloch; `what has happened to us?`. They know very well if they oppose or obstruct the Baloch movement this time, there is no place that they can go.

”We actually consider these cheifs responsible for the defeat of Baloch forces in 70s. They chose to compromise, instead of fighting and dying. Most of you know that Mr. Bugti actually worked against the Baloch forces in 70s. But now, he has no choice but to side with them.

”Mr. Mengal or other cheifs can `say` whatever they want, as long as it is what the Baloch forces want to say. He and his ilk no longer control the destiny of baloch. This time, we will not be compromised by a few chiefs.”

Here is what he says about Mr. Khair Bux Mari:

“Thanks for asking. Nawab Marri is my personal favorite. He is the one who has preferred to remain alone, and not get into ministerial posts like nawab Bugti, or Sardar Mengal. Recently, he had given a lecture at Bolan Medical college at a BSO seminar. Talking about his return from Afghanistan, he said that he was expecting stones, and tomatos from Baloch public for letting them down, but he was greeted with garlands. For which he said, `why was i forgiven? Why wasn`t i held accountable for all my misdeeds?` Someone who has the guts so say this can only be my hero. Some say BLA is his creation. Nobody knows yet, but we know that he is sympathetic to our cause, and will not be the one who will watch , and let us die.

”Having said that, he still is a nawab. And we have no room for nawabs as our leaders. Elders? yes, but not leaders.

”Sher Mohammad Marri is one of our tallest figures. His voice was known as the roar of the lion. At the times of his death in 1993, he was very disappointed. Recently his young grandson died in Quetta, because he couldn`t be admitted in the hospital at the right time.

”Dear zorgon, yes, most of the public considers these nawabs, and sardars as self-serving. See, they have been on the stage for last 30+ years, and nothing has changed except their wealth. It is really hard for people to trust them, time and again. And by the way, none of them are against armed revolt. They just want to have the control of it, but we are not going to provide it to them.

”These nawabs have been trusted so many times. Baloch fought and died for them in 70s, and even today, but we know that they were always looking for compromises. Not for Nawab Marri, but in case of Mr. Mengal, he still talks about rights `within` Pakistan, which is not any longer acceptable to us.

”We know that Mr. Mengal, Mr. Marri, and Mr. Bugti are not the monsters, responsible for all the miseries of the Baloch, that pakistan wants us to see them as, But they definitely are not saints.”

#197 by stuka
``True. Though there was a significant Hindu population in Quetta there were no riots there``

Quetta is a pakhtoon town for a long time. Before partition, it was a british cantonment and most of minorities were British activity related and only a handful were local. They left after partition.
Most of the Hindus in Balochistan were near sindh borders and were ethnically Sindhi. There may be a few Hindu of Baloch descend, if any at all.

There is lot going on in Balochistan and lots of emotions are involved. We will not find out until sometime whether it is a national rights issue or bargaining for money by Sardars.

Narejo, I hope you would agree with me that Khair bux Marri, Ataullah Mengal are not the old Sardars of the 70s. Akber Bugti has always played his cards close to the heart and his role in the 70s was more to make money than to support Baloch National movement.
I heard that Sarar Mangel is already in Islamabad to negotiate some deal.

What Dr. Abdul Hai Baloch has to say about this. I have not seen any thing from him yet. Have any idea?

While I totally agree that the Baluch Sardars are also to be blamed for the present poor conditions in Baluchistan, one should not lose focus on the injustices meted out to the people of Baluchistan from outside (read, army, punjab, federal govenment etc).... The following few facts should be considered to comprehend the frustration of the people of Baluchistan ....
1) from 1950s to 1980s, gas from Sui Baluchistan was accounting for more than 90% of the entire country`s gas requirement (residential, industrial,fertilizer power )... during which time baluchistan was and still remained extremely poor ... despite that .... baluchistan was NOT paid ANY ROYALTY for the gas for about 35 years during the 1950 to mid 1980s period
2) while the rest of the country was using Sui (baloch) gas), i bellieve that first time the Sui gas was provided to the local Balochs was in late 1980`s and that too in Quetta, 35-40 years after the rest of the country .. Even right now many major areas of Baluchistan do not have sui gas connections ....
3) since the last 15-20 years gas has been discovered in Sindh and Punjab also .... however Baluchistan share of gas production still remains the highest .. .. but even now Baluchistan receives the LOWEST royalty per unit as compared to the other provinces maybe on the pretext that since the Sui wells are old and depreciated the extraction cost is lower .... this would have still made sense if royalty was paid to Balochistan for the entire 1950 to 1980 period ...
4) Balochistan faces severe water shortage while catering to the gas requirement of country, despite that Punjab had out rightly refused sharing its underground water (not river ) with the other provinces (including Balochistan) on the pretext that underground resources belong to the province and therefore can not be shared .... surprisingly Punjab’s position was accepted by the Federal government without any problem ..as a result Punjab DO NOT share its underground water with the other federal units including Baluchistan ...
5) recently when Senator Baloch inquired Mr Aziz in a Senate session about how the revenues from Gwador would be given to Baluchistan ... his response was that the revenues from Gwador belong to the Federal government .. and the provinces would get their share through NFC awards based on their population percentage ... baluchistan population is 5% .... ...
i rest my case

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``While at the time of partition of India, millions of innocent souls were victimised on both side of the border. It was Balochistan, where fraternity and brotherhood prevailed among all religious groups, and not a single person from minority groups was ever killed. ``

True. Though there was a significant Hindu population in Quetta there were no riots there. Wonder why??

ikonoclast #193: “You are so full of hate and bigotry that you fail to hold an objective view”.

In this little world of ours it is hard to find saints. And then it is so easy to accuse anyone of bigotry and hate mongering and so difficult to prove that one is not. Just reverse the roles as if I am accusing you of the same thing. Read your mail one more time as if I am reading yours and try to find out how unbiased you are? Can you do it? Is it possible?

I think we can leave it to other forum members to read my mails and yours and see where we stand.

ikonoclast #193: “By the way, I used ``we`` in the collective sense of being Pakistanis.”

Why then it is so hard to convince the people of Balochistan and the common men from other provinces that they are included in that “we” in Pakistan? So far they don’t seem to be convinced. Any clues why?

ikonoclast #193: “Yes the army action initiated in the 70s by Bhutto was wrong. But action going on now is against the international terrorists. Do you want the political and social dispensation of the Talibans? ”

What an argument! 70s action was wrong but whatever dictator Musharraf is doing is right! What about the military actions of 1948 and 1960s? They were right too? Right? Wrong?

And look at the audacity of the respected contributor to call the secular Baloch movement as being part of international terrorism and equating the people involved in it with Talibans! Can we still argue on something?

ikonoclast #193: “Did any one of you bleeding hearts ever raise the issue, that why a substantial number of Baluch still live in caves? Why are the sardars maintaing their private jails and torture houses?”

It is a great tragedy that after 57 years of independence, a resource rich country like Pakistan finds itself in a quagmire that it is in now and the people are so helpless living under so miserable condition. Many people including this scribe have been writing on it and many more are actually engaged in a struggle to change things. The change must come but through a democratic way and the way the people want it to be. Not the way that the military establishment and its collaborators want it to be.

Please read my recent article in last week’s satribune: http://www.satribune.com/archives/august04/P1_an.htm

ikonoclast #193: “And I would also like to know, that how many of the people commenting here on this topic, have ever visited Baluchistan? And you I do not mean Quetta, I mean the interior.”

Do you mean to say that people opposing military establishment’s highhandedness within Balochistan are outsiders?

ikonoclast #193: “The massive development going on in Gwadar and to a lesser extent the construction of cantonments will accrue a large economic dividend to the province.”

Could you please explain why the Baloch people don’t see it that way? Anyone old enough would remember that exactly same kind of arguments were put forward by the government in 1970s in the support of the military action then. Sardars and the development!

By the way could you please quote any instance where I supported Sardars?

And do you want to understand what this bogey of the common men opposing development is? Please read this letter published in daily Dawn on 19th May, 2004:


Dams, ports and NFC


The authors of fantastic ideologies, fables and fairy tales have crafted a myth that the people of Sindh and Balochistan are anti-development. This falsehood has been based on Sindh`s opposition to mega water projects and Balochistan`s concerns over the under-construction Gwadar port. Instead of finding out why this is so, the two provinces have been discredited and condemned.

Why does Balochistan have reservations about the port? Baloch leaders say the project would create a demographic imbalance, turning the local people into a minority in their own province. They say the people should be co-opted for any development projects in their areas.

Why do Sindhis oppose mega water projects? They look at the history and tremble at what any new dams and canals upstream will do to them. They see broken promises, agreements and treaties.

How did the upper riparian unilaterally bypass the 1945 Water Agreement, the only accord between Sindh and Punjab reached without any coercion or intimidation? They have seen what has happened to six water commissions since the British Raj. They know how the Indus Basin Treaty was concluded behind their backs.

The people of Sindh are also aware how an unrepresentative regime was forced to sign the 1991 Water Accord. And today even that agreement is not being followed. The people know under what agreements and promises the Chashma-Jehlum and Taunsa-Panjnad canals were built and how these agreements and promises have been trashed.

It is universally accepted that the upper riparian can`t undertake any mega projects as it pleases and that already existing projects have precedence over any new projects.

That was the principle why the British administrators rejected the Greater Thal Canal project. And today our own government is building the same project. When there is already a huge shortage of water in the Indus River system, where will water come from for the canal?

The same is the case with the NFC when the provincial governments and the federal authorities are hoodwinking the people. Instead of seeking 80 per cent share for the 97 per cent population, the provinces are nowhere near even presenting their case properly. It all looks like a pre-arranged affair where the people at large will suffer and the federal government, its agencies and a few powerful lobbies will be the beneficiaries.

Still they say Sindh and Balochistan are at fault - they are anti-development. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They need it the most. But only if they are co-opted and if it is beneficial to their people.

Dear forum members,

To solve a problem one has to understand it. One has to comprehend the nature, the causes, the perspective and the background. It is as a doctor can`t write a prescription without diagnosis.

Balochistan situation is a difficult one. The government and the people of Pakistan have to thoroughly study all the aspects of the problem before they can venture to offer any solutions. An article by Wajid Shamsul Hasan in satribune is worth reading in this context. You can read it at http://www.satribune.com/archives/august04/P1_wajid2.htm

I have received a mail that represents an authentic Baloch voice. You may disagree some parts of it but it still can provide you a lot of background information. It also answers one question put forward by a forum member at #193.

Please read on:

“The military intelligence agency, which has always blackmailed the USA government under the pretext of combating Islamic fundamentalists and hunting Al-Qaeda and Taleban elements in various bordering regions of Pakistan, has unsuccessfully labelled
the Baloch nationalists as terrorists for the purpose of once again blackmailing their American Masters to have their supports in quelling Baloch popular uprisings.

It was a Pakistani intelligence agency, which gave birth to Al-Qaeda and Taleban in Afghanistan and exploited them under the sacred name of Islam against progressive forces of Afghans and Soviet Union. And it is Pakistan who betrayed them and eliminated them under certain pressures from its Masters.

The same wicked Intelligence agency attempted to sow the seeds of discord and hatred among various Muslims sects in Balochistan and created sectarian riots among Shia and Sunnis; and encouraged shedding blood of innocent minorities, so as to have upper hand upon the law and order situation in Balochistan.

Balochistan is the only province being proud of its` sectarian tolerance in the annals of Pakistan history. While at the time of partition of India, millions of innocent souls were victimised on both side of the border. It was Balochistan, where fraternity and brotherhood prevailed among all religious groups, and not a single person from minority groups was ever killed.

Pakistan which was created on sectarian and religious basis, has completely ignored the sacred principles of Islam and ignited fire of hatred among its very citizens and encouraged killings of minorities groups; that does not remain abound to the non-Muslims but equally the people from minority provinces; for the purpose of dominating the minority provinces and their entire resources.

The history of last 57 years are authentic proof that how minorities, whether sects or provinces, were exploited under the name of democracy and Islam; their resources were looted and plundered by the majority province and their military junta.

Balochistan is the richest province, with regard to mineral wealth and the biggest province in area. What the people of Balochistan have received in return from their own Muslim brothers from Punjab?

Balochistan was invaded three times by Pakistan Army. More than 80,000 Baloch were killed and hundreds of thousands were forced to abandon their country and take refuge in neighbouring Sind and adjacent areas. Their lands were confiscated and allotted to favourites of government, their livestock were seized and dragged to neighbouring Punjab and auctioned. They were deliberately debarred from all sources of survivals and livelihood. Thousands of them detained and tortured and scores of them executed by firing squads without providing them the rights of self defence. What Baloch have got from Punjabi Military Junta is briefly stated above.

We believe that during last 57 years of occupation of Balochistan by foreigners, have failed to record any service of minor importance to the people of Balochistan. If such is the case, why Baloch may continue to be a part of Punjabi military hegemony, which is determined to eliminate Baloch from Balochistan and usurp the entire wealth and divide it among themselves as a booty!

If today the Baloch youth have decided to protect their land, property, honour and dignity and encounter the invading forces of Pakistan, would and should under all human and divine laws and principles be regarded as patriots and not terrorists as being labelled by Pakistani media.

We are confident that all oppressed people of Pakistan would render their unhesitating support to the Baloch nationalists, who are defying the rule of undemocratic and unjust military junta and condemn the military adventurism in Balochistan.

Sincerely yours

Balochjk”

anarejo#183 and 184
You are so full of hate and bigotry that you you fail to hold an objective view. If you read my post without prejudice, you will find that right from the out-set I have taken note of the overwhelming Punjabi discrimination. And having said that we should be objective enough to see other facets of the issue too. By the way, I used ``we`` in the collective sense of being Pakistanis. Face some facts: Gwadar plan was initiated a decade back, when there was no military regime at the helm. Did anyone ask Bugti when he was the governor of Baluchistan, that what development plans did he initiate? Your beloved ``nationalist`` sardars do not want to develop the province. They want it to remain under-developed and lawless, so that they could keep the populance under their thumb. They dont want cantonments, because than they will not be able to indulge in their maruading acts. A lawless Baluchistan suits them fine for smuggling apart from other illegitimate activities.
Another important aspect is the concentration of al-Qaeda and Taliban cadres along the Pak-Afghan border. Any anti-terrorist action is highlighted by Bugti and his cohorts as an act against Baluch rights and nationalism. Irrelevant and old greivances are trotted out to substantiate their lies. Yes the army action initiated in the 70s by Bhutto was wrong. But action going on now is against the international terrorists. Do you want the political and social dispensation of the Talibans?
You should see the ongoing political and military developments in the province in its correct perspective. We must take a holistic view. You bleat about under-development, but when developmental projects are planned, you cry exploitation. The massive development going on in Gwadar and to a lesser extent the construction of cantonments will accrue a large economic dividend to the province. The coastal highway is an other developmental project, which will help develop the province.
Bugti and the ``nationalist`` sardars are only being opportunistic and exploiting the present political misfortunes (misfortunes I must add, entirely of their own making) of the regime to assert their nefarious agenda. I again reiterate that Baluchistan has been exploited by the Centre.;but about the exploitation by the sardars?
Did any one of you bleeding hearts ever raise the issue, that why a substantial number of Baluch still live in caves? Why are the sardars maintaing their private jails and torture houses?
It is good to highlight the plight of Baluchistan; the people and the province must get their due economic and political rights, but than the shennanigans of the sardars should also be crystalized. The real issues should not be obfuscated.
And I would also like to know, that how many of the people commenting here on this topic, have ever visited Baluchistan? And you I do not mean Quetta, I mean the interior?

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Vandana Konkani Cuisine
Where eating is a bit of an adventure

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Some six months ago, a little Karwari seafood restaurant (six tables, 24 covers) opened in an undistinguished corner of Mahim. It has become a gourmet event in its little pond.

Last week, when I was there, I found diners from Lintas, Chartered Bank, Mahindra & Mahindra, and a manager from Oberoi. That`s inside the restaurant. I do not know who all were there waiting outside the restaurant.

A large part of the credit for this should go to Siddharth Kaak, who discovered the restaurant and wrote an inviting critique of it. But credit should also go to the restaurant`s cuisine. I maintain, it is food that counts. Not the airconditioning, Italian marble, live orchestra, valet parking service, waiters in waistcoats, and menus the size of Encyclopaedia Brittania, with text in French.

Vandana is a little hole in the wall, you step into it and you step out of it. Before it, there was a Shetty restaurant, the day`s specials are written on the wall, the rest of the menu is type-sheeted, and whatever music is there is recorded and unnecessary. But it serves some of the best fish roes in town, at practically throwaway prices, has clams that open up at the touch of a tongue, and its baby shark ambotiks are tamarind tangy and chilly hot.

There`s no liquor licence, nor is the restaurant going to get one. So you start with the sol kadi. It is pink in colour, not yellow, That`s the pink kokam skin colour, the kokam got direct from Karwar, as are so many other ingredients. Drink it in large gulps, that`s the best way to drink it. It hits you straight in the chest and the nose, crushed garlic, green chillis, coconut milk, breath out of the nostrils.

It is an excellent appetiser, and it is also a good digestive. So remember to take another sol kadi at the end of the meal. Rs.15 per glass.

Before we move on to the starters, let me give you a proper location, otherwise you`ll never find Vandana, and end up travelling all over Mahim and cursing me. Coming from town, you go down Cadell Road, past Hinduja Hospital, that`s when you come to the traffic lights and the junction, one road (which half the day is one-way) going direct to Mahim, the other via Lady Jamshedji Tata Road to Mahim.

Take the second road, meaning turn to right at the traffic lights - immediately thereafter, the third or fourth shop on your right is Vandana. With directions, you can`t miss it, without directions, you can`t find it. The address is: Nanabhai Building, Near Ram Electronics, S.T.Road, Mahim. And, by the way, it is closed on Mondays.

Starters. You can have prawns dakshin dry, or a bombil (Bombay duck) pan fried, or clams, or any of the fried fish, particularly the kanne (lady fish), which is fat and substantial and tastes a little like a fish steak.

Mr. Francis Fernandes, who runs the place with great elan, insists that all the food is coastal Karnataka, essentially Karwari. It is not Malwani, where the seafood is more rava-fried and deep-fried- here, everything is pan-fried, with just a hint of oil; and it is not Goan, with palm vinegar, instead, kokam sol is used and bimbla.

But the kitchens, like the regions, do converge, Mr. Fernandes`s bombil does have a rava batter, and the prawn balchow at his restaurant is as Goan as you can get to be, complete with vinegar, both as a preservative and for taste. I have no quarrel with this, the food of all these regions, as also further down into Kerala, are my favourite.

Vandana`s cook is Marshall Gonsalves, who is from Karwar, so that should give the food its authenticity. He has also spent most of his life cooking on ships, which brings adventure to the cooking.

And eating at the Vandana Seafood Cuisine is a bit of an adventure. The seafood all comes from the Citylight Cinema Market, which is the best seafood market in town, guaranteed fresh stocks. And it is just a stone, or an angler`s line, throw away from the restaurant. And most of the ingredients come from Karwar, the kokam, the other souring agents, the Dakshin masalas, even the coconuts that go to make the many curries.

The dakshin prawns, dry, are medium-sized, marinated with lemon juice and turmeric powder, pan fried with the dakshin masalas, plus sol, plus bimbla, which is a dry plant of the tamarind family, and done in grated coconut. Each prawn is a mouthful. A plate costs Rs.60, and it is one of the favourite items at the restaurant.

The Bombay duck is dry but fresh, flattened into a round shape and fried in rava. Rs.35 for two pieces. Or you can have it in a green masala of fresh coriander, mint and green chillis. Rs.55 and you eat it with rice.

If you like bangda, which I believe is the safest seafood of all to eat, even more than the pomfret, go in for the bangda huggay. But it is not a real huggay, where the mackerel is wrapped in plantain leaf and steamed (a process difficult to execute in a small kitchen with individual orders), instead it is stuffed with a masala of chilli, tamarind and garlic, and gently fried on a tava, taking care that the flesh does not burn and the masala scorch. It costs Rs.30.

Other seafood include a chatpata pomfret in green coriander and mint masala, marinated in a lot of lemon juice, clams in a coconut masala, sukka crabs. The sukka crabs are Rs.55, the curried crabs Rs.70, and you can`t get them much cheaper than that.

The curries are the best items of the place, the ambotiks. Actually, they are two words, ambot means sour, tik means spicy. And that`s how the curries are, sour and hot. Keep some Bisleri ready when you have them.

I have kept the fish roe for the end. If there is one food I esteem over all others, it`s roe. In its most prestigious form it is the roe of the Caspian Sea sturgeon - caviare. What you get at Vandana is from the gol fish. And, occasionally, especially these days (July to October), you get it from a fish called pola or pala. It looks like herring, and, perhaps, tastes like it. But you don`t eat it, it is full of bones and tedious to consume.

What Marshall Gonsalves does is buys only the gaboli from it. This he first poaches, so that is does not shred in frying, then pan fries with a little ginger and garlic. It is priced at Rs.70 and it is one item I strongly recommend.

So, what`s for dinner? Sol kadi, prawns dakshin dry and fried bombil for starters, either squid in a spicy masala or prawn balchao as a side-dish, baby shark ambotik curry and rice, as the main dish, a portion of gaboli for dessert, forget the bebinca, though it is available. Call 4468819 for reservations.

Manto, kkkandk is an Indian. It is certain. There is absolutely no doubt about it. He is from India`s Rajasthan province. He posts the most vile insults against Pakistan and Pakistanis on unplugged, using several different nicks. Check out his `mumbaichick` nick, in particular. Here`s a sample of something he posted yesterday with the nick `canadadryer`. Make up your own mind:



#10 by canadadryer on August 20, 2004 8:48am PT
In Pakiland, they have nuclear bombs - but no public toilets. People piss on walls. Women just pee in their burkas. Men shit on rooftops. Very sanitary. The whole country smells like urine. :))
user posts | profile


#9 by canadadryer on August 20, 2004 8:39am PT
Do you live in pakiland? If yes, you must smell like shyt and piss. That`s what they do in pakiland, out in the open, the dirty bastards.

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#187 by arjun_m on August 20, 2004 8:19pm PT

I have heard of great konkan prawn curry- which is supposed to be better than the Thai Green Curry -would love to taste it when I go there sometime.
Does anyone know of Konkan Biryani??

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#174 ikonoclast wroites: ``If we are putting up Gwadar and trying to ayyract foreing and ex-pat business, than dont we need a cantonment to protect the port and the investment?``

Who is that “we”? Who so ever that “we” may be, I am sure Balochs are not included in that exclusive club. If you want to see Baloch response to cantonments and Gwadar Port, please read Senate proceedings carried by Pakistani newspapers today.

And please consider this: with that colonial attitude what avenues are left for the people of Balochistan who have seen three military operations before (in 1948, in 1960s and in 1973) this being the fourth one?

Are Balochs wrong when they don’t want to see happen to their province what has already happened to Sindh?

Why Balochs, Sindhis, Seraikis and many common folks belonging to other provinces are not included in that “we”?

Baloch Voice

Another question: why is it that only the military establishment and its collaborators have become the ``we`` in Pakistan? And all the rest have become ``they`` who have to be ruled over and to be insulted, humiliated and colonized?

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Dionysus...

I am beginning to think that too...



kkkandk,

Yaar the evidence that you have provided so far is only as substantial as your claim that you speak for the Mohajirs... in fact sketchier...

Thanks for putting me in touch with my Punjabi heritage... thats right... dude... it is a all big conspiracy.... we Punjabis rule you... we rule you and we exploit you.... you are basically our colonial slaves... There now you have something to quote me on.

Manti, kkkk/barachota is an Indian Muslim. He seems to have some connection to Pakistan. probably some family members in Karachi. But he is Indian.

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arjun bhai...

Yes .. on behalf of Ms. Sarwari that is indeed true :) infact that part of my in laws cook the most amazing things with narial ka doodh.


kkkandk,

Yaar... you are hopeless ... you can go on accusing me like this... but I think Aisha has taken the wind out of your stupid arguments. Now there is an authentic Pakistani from Karachi ... for all we know you are just another Indian trying to pose as a Pakistani..

-YLH

Punjabi domination and exploitation is there, even in Punjab. But an objective stance dictates that we consider all angles. How many skools or other civic institutions have the feudal sardars built in Baluchistan? A few years back I traved from Khuzdar to Quetta by road, in a stretch of 200 kilometres I saw only one skool. And you know for what was that skool used? Tethering of the goats of the local sardar!
Farooq Legari`s eldest son, Owais? used to be the paramount smugggers of cars during the incumbency of his dad; he used the Afghan-Iran-Pak border fotr his trade. Ditto for son Farid of Jamali. What has Bugti done to elevate the life of his people? He and others of his ilk are the worst of the worst feudals in Pakistan. They blackmail the GoP for money and perks and than remain quite for a while.
If we are putting up Gwadar and trying to ayyract foreing and ex-pat business, than dont we need a cantonment to protect the port and the investment? Or do we leave it at the tender mercies of Mr. Bugti and his hoods?
By the way it was Bhutto who initiated the military action against the Baloch. The than army chief Guk Hassan dissented and resigned. Zia whatever his other faults, and there were many, stopped the action and released the insurgents. And by the way , all the time the operation was going on, Mr. Akbar Bugti was the governor of Balochistan. Need I say more.
Get real!

dullabhatti:
``naa rabb na koi moosa jey,
sabh kujh bhambal-bhoosa jey.``

...nayee rees panjabi dee. Welcome to the club! (would have been better if you had included wah-guru somewhere, just to be an equal opportunity naastak).

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kkk

Kingly Keep Kashmir out of the pangas with punjus.

one thing we have done in india, which pakis can also do is to take digs at all nationalities without trying to be politically correct. this takes the edge off things and allows for ritualistic bashing, thus avoiding real violence.

gujjus eat dhokla and snakes. gujju bhai, dhokla khai, minute-minute ma hagwa jai.
ghatis (marathi) are tatya (tope fame), lazy bums play carrom the whole day and bitch about others invading mumbai.
surds are absurd
bhaiyyas and bhains make a good pair
biharis .. i dont know whats with them but ..
madrassis (generic epithet for kannada, telugus, malyali)
bongs are always on bongs

and so on. so unity in diversity is best achieved thru a free-for-all slur-fest. you guys have antiquated strange persian-durbari civility norms because you think you are inheritors of the Mughal empire. Once you allow slurring amongst yorself, deep bonds will surely follow. So stop saying Aap and Jannab and all that stuff, and use Bollywood-Bumbaiyya and all the hatred will melt away.

you might even understand all the paki-bashing.

aziz narejo,

almost one week has passed since the publication of this article, and most of the 159 interacts we have seen here have been words, to quote shakespeare, ``full of sound and fury signifying nothing.``

i wish you had interacted here, and moderated this board a little more. perhaps all this could have been avoided. but if these interacts have been good for anything, it is perhaps to show that some of us are not on a right path to building a country.

pakistan itself is only fifty-seven years old, but many of the people living there have been part of communities for generations and generations, while those who arrived before, during and after partition will continue to thrive for generations and generations. we are all pakistanis. but unfortunately we have allowed our ethnic pride to supercede our national pride. ethnos, the greek word which ethnic comes from means nation, and we have all, not just the punjabis, but all of us have acted as if we were nations within a nation. so no, we have not been on the right path to building a country because we have not always had pakistan`s best interests at heart, but our own.

there are interactors on this board who continue to post comments trashing punjabis. is this the right path to building a country? eliminate ``punjabi hegemony`` and all of the problems will be solved? there are interactors here who want to blame the problems in pakistan on just one thing. one interactor would like to place all the blame on the ``occupying army``, one would like to place a great deal of it on the ``mullahs.`` and now we have someone placing all the blame on ``punjabi hegemony``. are these three things in isolation where all the blame should be placed? none of these things are in complete isolation. is this the right path to building a country? getting to the source of our problems is a good thing, undoubtedly, but we as pakistanis are very good at pinpointing the source of our problems, but unfortunately our solutions are sometimes very self-serving.

we should talk to each other, as pakistanis. . and we should listen to each other. and be able to solve our problems peacefully and amicably, and if there are groups that are willing to do that, both within the government and without, we will be on the right path to building a country. military might is not the answer. building cantonments when there is greater need of schools and hospitals is not the answer. bombing pipelines is not the answer. at this point some of us don`t see our current government as the answer, given that we are being ruled by a military dictator, and democracy hasn`t sat comfortably with so many of us as yet.

talk gets cheap here at chowk though. when you are asked honest, sincere questions about how to move forward, we dwell on our pasts and our ethnic pride, we trash an entire ethnic group , and focus on our own ethnic makeup. it is amazing the lengths we go to bring our attention to a particular situation, but in doing so, we have stopped talking about the situation, and brought attention to ourselves. is this the right path to building a country? getting together to talk about how our leaders have without our consent (electing them does not equal consent) caused a great deal of damage is important in peace processes and in setting goals for what the future should look like is part of the path in building or rebuilding a country. shouting at the top of our voices, and generalizing about what all punjabis have done places barriers in a path where no barriers should be placed.

someone said it so well, we should stop focusing on what our ethnic makeup and genealogy is, and focus more on suffering. . .and pakistan suffering. . . as pakistanis. that too is part of the path of building a country.

i hope that you, mr. narejo, and we will ask ourselves the questions within our souls, and know that we do not have all the answers, as some here claim to have.

once again, thank you. .
ana

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Re #153 by kkkandk ``...Just ask the Bengalis. They were the most ardent supporters of Pakistan and in the end, they had to fight to be free from Pakistan - thanks to Punjaibi domination. ``
Sure.. and let`s see how Muhajirs protested to the Punjabi brutality:

``Thus when General Yahya Khan refused to honour the results of the 1970 elections, in which the East Pakistan Awami League secured an absolute majority in the National/Constitutional Assembly, and ordered military action to suppress the Bengali protest, the Mohajirs overwhelmingly joined the Punjabis in supporting the action and went into a frenzy of ethnic bigotry against the Bengalis.`` (1)

`` (1) Ethnicity and Politics in Pakistan`` by Feroz Ahmed, Pages 111-112, Oxford University Press

Memories are indeed short.

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KKKandK,

Can you please quote the exact post or article that I might have put up which can be construed as ``Punjabi nationalist`` ? If you had even a shred of decency you would post up exactly what... or admit that you are the biggest liar on chowk.

I find it amazing that you will call me that of all people... who so far has been the proudest un-Punjabi on chowk... Anyway... because of your ignorant and obsessive posts I am beginning to reconsider everything... maybe Sameerjb was right all along and I was wrong.


Thank God we don`t have fools like you in Pakistan.

-YLH

This is disgusting. sick. wrong. A part of my family moved from Ajmer sharif to karachi, and the other part is from Kokan. Going by the definitions I am as ``Mohajir`` as they come, but what kkkandk is saying here is nonsense. Among my family friends and rishtaydar, I have never seen any bias of this kind. I live in Lahore now, and I found PAKISTANIS living in Lahore to completely laid back, maybe even more so than Karachi, about such ethnic biases. I have never been asked where I am from. I am at ease in this city, as if I have lived here all my life. Maybe now I am a `Punjabi nationalist` too, but I think these biases are deliberately concocted by idiots. People like kkkandk don`t represent the opinions of the common ``Mohajir``. I should know because my father`s family in Karachi is as common ``mohajir`` as they come. This word has been abused for long, and it is time we all acted Pakistani.

I am surprised what complaints can there be against Punjabis. The President and COAS is a Mohajir. The Prime Minister is a Mohajir Elect. The country`s founder was Karachiite. The country`s most popular Prime Minister was a karachiite. Out of the 4 dictators this country has had 2 were Mohajir and 2 were Pathans. With the exception of Nawaz Sharif, all Prime Ministers have been Non-Punjabis. Punjabi language is not the national language of Pakistan, the Urdu language is which is the language of the so called ``Mohajirs``. I think it is the language of all Pakistanis. So far I haven`t seen my ``Punjabi`` husband speak a word of Punjabi. On his ID card his mother tongue is stated as ``Urdu``.

so stop imagining bogies that don`t exist

Aisha Fayyazi Sarwari

Gentlemen...

This is news for me.... According to KKKandK:

Musharraf is a Punjabi, Zia ul Haq was a Punjabi Ayub Khan was a Punjabi and Yahya Khan was also a Punjabi. In the long list of Punjabis ... let us not forget... Tikka Khan, popularly knows as Butcher of Bengal, was also a Punjabi and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who ordered the Pakistan army to crackdown on the Balochs in the 1970s, was definitely a Punjabi... Benazir Bhutto, who cracked down on the MQM, was also Punjabi.. Ah... amazing Punjabi domination so far... the previous Prime Minister the Fatso was a Punjabi... he had to be ... how did he get so fat if he was from a backward famine ridden province. Now the Prime Minister designate is a also a Punjabi ... And let us not forget the real tale of Punjabi domination... The constitution of Pakistan has declared that Punjabi is the national language of Pakistan... Punjabis are evil... Kill the Punjabis.

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#146 by dullabhatti on August 18, 2004 4:29pm PT

Thanks, I put PAsh on the highest pedestial compared to other contemporary Punjabi poets. It was unfortunate that he was murdered by the rascal Bhindrawale jamaat. He would have continued his struggle against the oppression by all the fascistic elements within Punjab politics, bureaucracy as well as the Sikh religious community. He was a true martyr!!

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Dost-Mittar ji, tusi mera ajj da nawaN shair paRheya? it is again very bold, true and munh-phaTT just like Bulleh shah and Paash. go visit (www.Paash.net) for reading Paash (Avtar S. Sandhu was his real name).

naa rabb na koi moosa jey,
sabh kujh bhambal-bhoosa jey.

jehra phir vi wehmi ay,
samjho ke oh koohsa jey.

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Dear Morad...

I appreciate your comments... Yaar God save Pakistan from the KKK from Kandahar. His various avtars are merely here to cause controversy...

Wajahat is cut from a different cloth... a true patriot... from his writings... though he too suffers from occasional bout of very weak and presumptious analysis, not with issues, but with people on chowk... who he doesn`t know in person... I don`t think that is a good lane to go down... I feel that the people love to presume things, create enemies, imagine their so-called true faces ... without actually knowing them... their entire basis of this so called knowledge about another person is the internet personna... For example... Many chowkies have met me in real life... and several articles have appeared on Chowk describing me as a completely different person from what they had imagined ... I wouldn`t know because I just write whatever I get inspired to write... so I am not sure what my online and offline personna is...

Either way... its always best to withold judgement... till a fairer assessment is possible... because no-one is more despicable than people who assume that they have a crystal bowl and know everything about everyone.

-Sincerely

YLH

aziz,

you are right, of course. unfortunately some of the interactors who claim to be speaking for pakistan`s interests are too self-absorbed in this who did more and who did less, and what ethnic group has created the most damage and who slept with whom rather than focusing on real problems. they like to regress rather than progress. . . might it just be that they have no real answers to the questions you seek? :)

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Manto, Dino and the rest
I don’t think that you guys seem to understand … the comments/ views by kkk Manto, Dino and the rest
I don’t think that you guys seem to understand … the comments/ views by kkk or wajahat is due to concern for Pakistan and its unity in true sense. Some of the comments are unkind and blunt maybe out of the anger towards the apathy and arrogance of folks like you ….
Kindly understand that most of the interactors from karachi on this forum have not personally suffered from Punjab dominance or discrimination in a major way …. However we do understand and feel the genuine grievances of others from karachi to Baluchistan and realize how sad and dangerous it is for Pakistan … what is disappointing is that you dont see and realize that ....
Manto, I had been reading your posts on this forum and to the large extent my views are in tandem with u on the nuisance of the so called Mullahs like fazlurrehaman etc although you seem to be too obsessed on this single issue…
You define yourself as ‘liberal’ .. for that you have to liberate and open your mind towards other issues with the same passion, pain and effort that you seem to exert towards mullah bashing ….

//...The Poorbiyas had fought for the Angrez when the Angrez fought the Sikhs. Why would Punjabis have gone to support the Poorbiyas? ..//

Yep - and in the end, the Angrez got it all. Guess who were the loosers - both Poorbiyas and Punjabis. So typical.

Reminds me the story about two cats who were fighting over a piece of bread and the monkey who benefitted from the dispute.

Sadest part is - the lesson was never learnt. Hundreds of years after that - you still see Bhayyas and Punjus clawing at each other.

What loosers!!!!

#135 dino

what is (T) ?

overall sometimes one sees some similarities between ``pure`` faiths and the ``khalsa`` in the sense of yearning for purity. its a little scary for those belonging to more impure faiths and those not belonging to the pure faiths.

omar qureshi: is dawn planning on covering balochistan? i think media is the biggest blame in coverage of balochistan. this should be prime news in all news channels, magazine exposes and not just in SA Tribune. it does not matter if its some tribal hoodlums bombing sui pipeline, let there be a big and rowdy debate. in emergency by indira, the newsmedia in india cowed down and the result is there for everyone to see.

yaar Kandahari klu klux klan...

Kitni baizati karaay gaa aur?? Ab khush hai ... jab dionysus nay teri sookhi sookhi lay lee hai in Khalis Punjabi style?

kkk #122 ``The Turko-Afghans and Mughals ruled from Delhi. We Mohajirs, the Hindustanra, are the descendants of these dynasties and their supporters.``

You are the biggest lunatic that chowk has ever seen in its history. What do Rajasthani slaves and mud monkeys have to do with the Turko-Persian nobility of Delhi and Lucknow, you moron? There is NO connection whatsoever apart from the fact that some of your women provided them with horizontal refereshment. Providing them with cheap and easy sex does not make you stake-holders in their empires, idiot. It makes you pimps, not imperialists.


``Also, during the 1857 war of independence or ``SEPOY MUTINY`` as your masters call it, while most of Hindustan was fighting for independence, Punjabis, such as yourself, were kissing the Angraiz` ass and extending colonial rule by another 90 years``

Bhayyas helped the British invade our Punjab, and Punjabis, led by the mighty Tiwanas, returned the favour. By all accounts they had a lot of fun in Bhayyaland. (T)

Dear folks,

Why is it that in these discussions we get distracted so easily? We go back to our fortifications instantly and start attacking each other with slurs, racist remarks and what not. Why can’t we celebrate our diversity and try to reach conclusions in an orderly manner? Sometimes it even looks as if we were not citizens of the same country!

But it may not entirely be our fault. We really are not used to civil and democratic norms. This scribe included. We belong to a country that has been ruled by bureaucrats with the help of military in its early years and by military with the help of bureaucrats since almost half a century. All the others including the so-called elite have been brutally used by these two powerful groups mercilessly. Democracy and civil society has never been allowed to take roots.

What should we do then?

As a report said in today’s daily Times (Aug 18) the Flying Paper Mills in Sheikhupura, whose officials are accused in the murder of a citizen protesting at their pollution, is still dumping effluent into the Khanpur Canal.

The military men are still harassing and hounding the Okara farmers. A journalist arrested while covering the plight of the farmers few weeks back has not yet been released according to the last reports that I saw on the issue.

The people in Sindh, Wana, Seraiki belt and Balochistan deserve the attention of all the citizens of Pakistan (and the citizens of the world) to come to their aid and speak against the injustices meted out to them.

What is our response to all that? Cursing each other. I really don’t know what to make out of it.

Please give these things a little thought.

Regards,

Aziz

#128 by dost-mittar on August 17, 2004 5:31pm PT

Agreed. Some of the most powerful statements against oppression by the political and religious elites has come from the Punjabis and not the Bengalis.
Bhagat Singh started this and went all the way to Batalvi and then on to the fiery Avar Singh Pash.
Can anyone forget Pash?? He spoke the bitter truths about Punjab politics and their culture when it mattered the most - other pretenders just hid behind the Bhindrawale brigade in the Golden temple. I am sure you must remember him because he went and lived in Canada for quite some time running his news letter (Anti-47 Front) which criticized the Khalistani extremists and their sympathesizers.
He was murdered by them when he came back to India. Some say the orders were from Bhindrawale. He was 38 at that time.

I submit translation of one his poems:

The Most Dangerous Thing
By Pash
{Translated from a Hindi translation of the original Punjabi poem to English
by Dubhashi Devdatt and Shashi Kumar}

The most dangerous thing is not the loot of your labour
The most dangerous thing is not the beating by the police
The most dangerous thing is not treachery or greed

To get caught lying down is bad enough
To be rendered scared and speechless is also bad
But it is not the most dangerous thing

The most dangerous thing is:
To achieve peace of a corpse
Not to struggle, to bear everything
To leave the house for work
And to return home from work
The most dangerous thing is:
For our dreams to die.

Dear folks,

While talking of poetry, a Punjabi poem by Munir Niazi (hope I am not wrong) comes to my mind. I want to share it with you. I hope you won’t mind it:

Kuchh oonj vee raavaaN aukhiyaaN sann
Kuchh gal vich gham daa tauq vee cee
Kuchh shahar dey log vee zaalim sann
Kuchh saanooN maraN daa shauq vee cee

And somebody else has said:

Zulm rahey aur amn bhi ho
Kiya mamkin hai tum hi kaho

And one by indomitable Ghalib:

Aitbaar-e ishq ki khaana-e kharaabi dekhna
Ghair ney ki aah, leikin woh khafaa mujh pey hua

Please correct me if I am wrong. Will be much obliged.

Regards,

Aziz

``during the 1857 war of independence or ``SEPOY MUTINY`` as your masters call it, while most of Hindustan was fighting for independence, Punjabis, such as yourself, were kissing the Angraiz` ass and extending colonial rule by another 90 years. ``

The Poorbiyas had fought for the Angrez when the Angrez fought the Sikhs. Why would Punjabis have gone to support the Poorbiyas?

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kaurasach:
``and Punjabi poems are more like Punjabi gaalan.``
I know that you are saying that in jest but people make stereotypes out of statements like these. Please dont go by what you see and hear on TV. There are many panjabi poets who write beautiful poetry. I recently was astounded by a poem ``Shabad`` by a sikh poet from Montreal - almost of the same category as Shiv Batalvi. And I have heard many poets in person from Inder Singh Tulsi to Prakash Saathi who have written all forms of poems from folk songs to ghazal and spiritual poetry.
I know you respect our language as much as I do if not more, so please take it in that spirit.

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