Indira Gandhi Bunaam Bush!

Re: pardesi #76

“After all this had been grilled in the heads of historically / culturally sycophant masses (educated or not), the logic given was that June raid on the temple was absolutely necessary and more importantly, butchering of 30000+ innocent Sikh civilians in Delhi, Haryana, UP and Bihar was OK too since it was necessary to teach “the enemies” a lesson.”

The riots in 1984 were organized, funded, manned by the congress. They provided the legal protection to the perpetrators, the arms & ammunition and the logistics. The masses did not think it was ok; in fact they protected their friends and neighbors. As far as the operation on the golden temple is concerned, I would support something on the lines of operation black thunder, but everyone is wiser afterwards.

“And now if you talk about it, the smart alecs will tell you why open the old wounds? However, when they open Babar’s tomb (thanks FV) it’s considered reconnecting with 5000 year old Ram’s legacy. If they throw water standing in holy Ganges every year in honor of their dead ancestors, that’s considered sign of high Brahminic culture.”

Pardesi by all means come undone… How would you heal the old wounds….

“I really wonder who the hell is responsible for weakening the foundations of the union.”

Our democracy and our judicial system is a work in progress. It is soaked in the blood of a lot of innocent people; it will take a lot more before it is anything close to fair for all. But I take great pride in people who try to seek justice against tremendous odds, they open a lot of doors for the rest of us.


Regards,

Faruk

Re: pardesi # 76

“The fact is I am the least religious Sikh who rarely goes to Gurdwara”

Good god man, you sure live in the wrong part of the world. I promise you a visit to the langar at Bangla Sahib Delhi will change that. It might not make you religious but you will visit the gurudwara more often.

Regards,

Faruk

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Re: dost-mittar # 99

“You should think about what led to this change and how it can be reversed.”

How do you think it can be reversed?

Regards,

Faruk

bongdongs # 107
Please follow the logic carefully. What Akalis do to each other in Punjab or demand from center or what means they employ does not give Central Government right to butcher innocent Sikhs outside Punjab. That’s all I have been saying. Therefore I do not give rat’s as$ about Akali politics.
Those are the rules civilized countries follow. They do not take their own citizens as hostages. Do you follow what I am saying or your point is that Federal government can start killing its citizens in other states if they do not like what a community is demanding?
Problem with many Indians is that they view this as Sikhs vs. Bharatmata issue and that’s plainly wrong.
This is positively my last post on this topic. You can have the last word now.
Thank you.

Somewhere along the line, the whole neo-con plan for Iraq seems to have gone down the drain. I really don`t see what the USA has in mind for the future of Iraq. I think, within five to ten years, the USA govt will be fondly missing Saddam.

The guy was pretty good for America. Which is probably why they supported him for so long. He fought the Iranis, which Americans themselves are a bit scared to do. He invaded Kuwait, thereby getting the USA to keep its soldiers in the Gulf, after the Saudis had starting getting rid of them. He kept the Saudi kings so scared that they had to keep relying on USA. He kept the Ayatullahs out of power in Iraq, thereby not allowing Iraq to turn into a hotbed of support for anti-USA Shia forces. He kept OBL at bay, since both did not like each other. He had nothing to do with 9/11. He ensured that a relatively sophisticated and potentially rich Iraqi population never realized its true potential as a leader of the Arab world. He created just enough problems in the Middle East, so that USA and UK could keep flying over Iraq and bombing it, whenever it wanted. And invade the area, now and then, blaming it on Saddam.

If the elections go as predicted, Ayatollah Al-Sistani will be the elected leader. And maybe Sadr as the elected opposition. Both took on Saddam. And both are anti-USA, i.e. they seem to represent the wishes of the Iraqis. Sistani was born in Iran (I believe). So Americans have created a situation where only an Ayatollah can win. And even they are hoping that their Ayatullah (Sistani) defeats the other Ayatullah (Sadr).

So the USA is now left rooting for an Ayatullah. Go figure. What a tangled web we weave....I cannot imagine this is what Wolfowitz and Rick Pearle (where the hell did he disappear to; Bush must be spanking his ass now) and the other Jewish members of the neo-con brigade had in mind when they authored America`s visions for the New 21st Century stuff.

Ten years from, the USA president, and the Israeli PM, will be remembering Saddam`s days with fondness.........

``So Americans have created a situation where only an Ayatollah can win.``(Romair)

indeed -- an astute observation.... Umair

hamidm miaN to take note please -- the Iraqi Abu Gharib Democracy that you are expecting to usher in Iraq -- will be exactly like the Iranian Ayatollah`s Democracy

...it will be the Democracy alright -- but it will be -- the Democracy of the Ayatollahs -- by the Ayatollahs -- for the Ayatollahs -- it will be a big Bone in the Bush`s Democratic shish kebob -- stuck in the Bushy`s democratic throat.....refusing to come out of the other end....that is....if the dimwit survives the November day of reckoning......

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``So if Berlin and Paris, agree is the Irak war justified ? `` (halur)

absolutely not...

.....Iraq War -- now an Eyerock in Bush`s bloody eyes -- was NEVER justified -- and will NEVER be justified by the Historians like the Vietnam war.....

probably it will be the last gasp of recurring American Redneckism...for its pathological urge to indulge in bloody do-gooderism -- against some small poor third world country -- in the name of American Bloody Values.....

...the whole sickening bloody mess ....with such waste of human lives, resources usless death and destruction ...............every bloody 10 years...over and over again

.......Berlin and Paris as well as India and Pakistan -- under UN -- are needed -- to remove Iraq -- from the bloody hands of that Bushwhacker Mongoloid -- from Texas -- and give it back to the REAL people of Iraq .....not to the tainted CIA paid weasels called Allawis and Chalabis......

thus.....to PREVENT the Sadam-Abused and American-Abused country from imploding upon itself.....

A very heart warming felicitations to all freedom loving democratic people around the globe on Hugo Chavez`s spectacular victory in referrendum. That is in your face american imperialist thugs.

It is important that we must be get heard at the right time. In America the burden is on its right minded citizens to end this vulgar occupation of Iraq just as in India the burden is on the right minded hindus and the secularists to speak against the communal minded irrespective of their communal affiliations. As common citizens we have to realize that those who play politics dangerously want us to re-inforce the stereo-types by resorting to the discourses of identity and uniqueness. Often they turn the spiritual discourses of ``Us AND Them`` into a political discourse of ``Us VERSUS Them``. The Americans Versus the Rest, the pure versus the impure, the Khalsa versus the rest, the Astika versus the Nastikas.
And why do we remain silent when these discourses of ``otherness`` gets espoused by these ``extremists`` and the neo-cons? Why do we even listen to them justs because they color their hatred towards their political targets with religious discourse or in the name of liberty? And why do we accept the attempt by the fanatics to clothe their violent acts of murders, assasinations, loot and rape as a continuity in the long tradition of religious struggles. Was`nt Bhidrawale doing all this? was`nt OBL commiting the gravest of the un-civil acts in the name of following a great religious tradition? Isn`t Modi and his bunch of eunuch officals the conspirators in the massacre of minorities?
And we all remain remain the silent conspirators because somehow their violence does not affect us because they promise us the secure feeling of being protected by the a mysterious force ? As if not being the victims of their venemous religiousity is itself a reprieve from the malevolent God!
Why do not we stand up against these rascals now before we ourselves become victims of our own silence.

#114 pardesi

You and many others (me included) have demanded justice since `84, has anything happened? Why has it not happened? Who, organized the killings, what did they get out of it? Are we able to prevent mob violence today (obviously not)? What techniques/processes do para-millitary forces employ? Why did Gujarat riots happen? Are the dynamics similar? If not why?

I see you are not interested in these issues. So goodbye.

here comes -- by 58% -- another Democratic BONE called Chavez -- in the `Democratic` Throat of thist discredited Bush administration.....

...Can the Moron from Texas handle Real Democracy?...can he....let`s invade NOW Venezuela and capture THEIR oil fields....shall we

Real Democracy speaks in Spain, India, Venezuela and now -- at home in the United States......

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#126
You have not rattled any cages. You are simply pouting.
Most of your indian inter-acters have condemned the ethnocide of sikhs in delhi in 1984, and are just as angry at the inability / unwillingness of the present government to punish the guilty. MMS should have taken a stand at known killers being given cabinet posts.

Similarlly Modi should have been fired by the previous government, for dereliction of duty, if nothing else.

But you chose not to notice all this. and presume to speak on behalf of all sikhs (Who died and made you king, btw?) and spout nonesense like `we do not care`. Most sikhs do.

Urstruly:

Thanks for reading and agreeing with the analysis. Some points:
``However, since American people, by nature, are arrogant fukks, therefore, they will do exactly opposite to what common sense suggests.``

I don`t think that the American people are as arrogant as they are ignorant. The free press American press has been a willing tool of the administration and completely misled the American people. The New York Times and Washington Post have already done a mea culpa but the worst culprit was the electronic media wrt keeping Americans in the dark about how their govt. was manipulating them with lies and deception.

``American people know very well that what their government does around the world is what puts food on the table – Bush or Kerry, doesn’t make a difference.``

I disagree with you. The oil will continue to be produced no matter who runs the govts. in the oil producing countries, and the price will be determined largely by the markets, otherwise it would not have gone down from $40 to $10 a barrel and rise to $46 now. You would however been correct in saying that what ``their`` govt. does around the world puts the caviar and champagne on the tables of a few in the US.

Re. Chavez victory, I`m waiting if the Americans accept the results as valid or not and how the Venezualans will be ``rewarded`` for this exercise in democracy.