The Bollywood Effect – is Reema the next Rani?
Zainab Mahmood August 25, 2004
#36 Posted by kabuliwallah on August 27, 2004 10:57:30 am
re: plats8 # 20
(``South has its own huge movie industry and has produced icons like Sivaji Ganeshan,
NTR, Raj Kumar etc``
Yes, icons they were, but actors they weren`t.)
I think the entire landmass south of the Vindhyas would disagree with you on that. Physically attractive though some of them might not be, Southern actors such as Savithri, NTR, ANR, MGR, Mohanlal, Muhammad Kutty (aka Mammooty), Sivaji Ganesan etc are thespian titans. Please tell me if you have seen any movies of NTR where he plays a mythological character. Illiterate people in rural Andhra were so mesmerised by his portrayals of Rama, Krishna, Arjuna etc, that they used to cut out his movie posters (where he is dressed up as mythological characters) and hang the posters in their shrines. If you have the time and interest, definitely check out Bhoo-Kailas where NTR plays Ravana. Keeping aside South Indian sympathy for Ravana, NTR managers to portray the oft-maligned and misunderstood Ravana as a compassionate son, tender lover, fastidious bhakta and King.
I think regional movies have done very well compared to Bollywood. Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards we are talking about here) goes to regional films. Bollywood unashamedly steals, copies and plagiarises from regional movies, especially those from the South. Remember all the Anil Kapoor hits which regularly win filmare awards?...almost everyone of them (Woh Saat Din his debut film with Padmini Kolhapure, Virasat, Eeshwar, Beta,) is a remake of Telugu/Tamil films.
regards
Kabuli
(``South has its own huge movie industry and has produced icons like Sivaji Ganeshan,
NTR, Raj Kumar etc``
Yes, icons they were, but actors they weren`t.)
I think the entire landmass south of the Vindhyas would disagree with you on that. Physically attractive though some of them might not be, Southern actors such as Savithri, NTR, ANR, MGR, Mohanlal, Muhammad Kutty (aka Mammooty), Sivaji Ganesan etc are thespian titans. Please tell me if you have seen any movies of NTR where he plays a mythological character. Illiterate people in rural Andhra were so mesmerised by his portrayals of Rama, Krishna, Arjuna etc, that they used to cut out his movie posters (where he is dressed up as mythological characters) and hang the posters in their shrines. If you have the time and interest, definitely check out Bhoo-Kailas where NTR plays Ravana. Keeping aside South Indian sympathy for Ravana, NTR managers to portray the oft-maligned and misunderstood Ravana as a compassionate son, tender lover, fastidious bhakta and King.
I think regional movies have done very well compared to Bollywood. Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards we are talking about here) goes to regional films. Bollywood unashamedly steals, copies and plagiarises from regional movies, especially those from the South. Remember all the Anil Kapoor hits which regularly win filmare awards?...almost everyone of them (Woh Saat Din his debut film with Padmini Kolhapure, Virasat, Eeshwar, Beta,) is a remake of Telugu/Tamil films.
regards
Kabuli
reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content
#35 Posted by plats8 on August 27, 2004 10:57:29 am
MaheshG2 #33,
``Nobody in Bollywood (even Hollywood) can match his acting skills. He is the most consummate actor I have ever seen and the most underrecognized.``
Another flurry of superlatives. Khair, to each his own - as long as you realise that ``I``
is the operative word in your statement.
``Nobody in Bollywood (even Hollywood) can match his acting skills. He is the most consummate actor I have ever seen and the most underrecognized.``
Another flurry of superlatives. Khair, to each his own - as long as you realise that ``I``
is the operative word in your statement.
#34 Posted by Urstruly on August 27, 2004 9:51:17 am
I have a question to ask my Idian friends. How many people in India watch bollywood movies in theaters, and how many at home thru vcr. How is vcr industry in India. Is it protected by copyright laws like here in US e.g. or is it just one of the other underground economies. How much renting a video of a new movie costs. Are new movies readily available on videos.
#33 Posted by kkkandk on August 27, 2004 9:03:06 am
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#32 Posted by kabuliwallah on August 27, 2004 9:03:06 am
re: rsridhar # 18
just for the record, I have nothing against Bollywood influencing Southern movies...in a way it is good, because it encourages Southern movie makers to package their movies better, in terms of actors looking younger and fitter. You and I seem to agree that the storylines of southern movies are generally better and many of these hit Southern movies get remade in Hindi. K.Vishwanath and K. Balachander are two directors who have made and continue to make amazing movies in Telugu and Tamil. There are Malayalam directors who have done pioneering and path-breaking work. And yes, A.R. Rahman and more importantly his guru, Ilayaraja have no peers in the North. In my earlier post I was just pointing out that Southerners (as in people living in the South, not movie characters) have adopted certain things from Bollywood movies, such as wearing Shalwar Kameez (it is another matter that they are terribly tailored and look awful, Pakistani designers seem to do a million creative and amazing things with something as simple as Shalwar Kameez)...unmarried girls before the 90s used to wear something known as Onis, now almost everybody atleast in urban areas wear Shalwar Kameez (popularly known as Punjabi Suits in the South). Another thing I found hilarious in one Southern movie was a Bhangra number (with ugly readymade turbans; it really is a travesty when something as majestic and regal as a Sikh turban is turned into a commercialised, ready-made trinket), something that is becoming more and more common due to the heavy doses of Punjabi`yat` in Bollywood movies from the 90s up until now.
Vis-a-vis Southern populist superstars, my father is a huge fan of Sivaji Ganesan. But I always found him to go a little over-the-top in his movies. But yes, he was very talented and a great actor.
regards
Kabuli
just for the record, I have nothing against Bollywood influencing Southern movies...in a way it is good, because it encourages Southern movie makers to package their movies better, in terms of actors looking younger and fitter. You and I seem to agree that the storylines of southern movies are generally better and many of these hit Southern movies get remade in Hindi. K.Vishwanath and K. Balachander are two directors who have made and continue to make amazing movies in Telugu and Tamil. There are Malayalam directors who have done pioneering and path-breaking work. And yes, A.R. Rahman and more importantly his guru, Ilayaraja have no peers in the North. In my earlier post I was just pointing out that Southerners (as in people living in the South, not movie characters) have adopted certain things from Bollywood movies, such as wearing Shalwar Kameez (it is another matter that they are terribly tailored and look awful, Pakistani designers seem to do a million creative and amazing things with something as simple as Shalwar Kameez)...unmarried girls before the 90s used to wear something known as Onis, now almost everybody atleast in urban areas wear Shalwar Kameez (popularly known as Punjabi Suits in the South). Another thing I found hilarious in one Southern movie was a Bhangra number (with ugly readymade turbans; it really is a travesty when something as majestic and regal as a Sikh turban is turned into a commercialised, ready-made trinket), something that is becoming more and more common due to the heavy doses of Punjabi`yat` in Bollywood movies from the 90s up until now.
Vis-a-vis Southern populist superstars, my father is a huge fan of Sivaji Ganesan. But I always found him to go a little over-the-top in his movies. But yes, he was very talented and a great actor.
regards
Kabuli
#31 Posted by MaheshG2 on August 27, 2004 9:03:06 am
plats #30,
How many Kamal Hassan movies have you seen anyway? Nobody in Bollywood (even Hollywood) can match his acting skills. He is the most consummate actor I have ever seen and the most underrecognized.
How many Kamal Hassan movies have you seen anyway? Nobody in Bollywood (even Hollywood) can match his acting skills. He is the most consummate actor I have ever seen and the most underrecognized.
#30 Posted by plats8 on August 27, 2004 7:32:06 am
rsridhar #23,
``Nobody, i mean nobody in the North is a match to this guy`s talents. I should know
better as i am at ease with both North and South Indian cultures and now-a-days,
am comfortably settled in the West!``
So, you are certain that nobody north of the Vindhyas is a match for Shivaji Ganesan
as an actor ? Hmmm.....
By the way, being at ease with a culture has little to do with judging the quality of
films - jurors in most film festivals are often culturally far removed from the films
they pass judgment on.
``So, believe me, i am no big fan of Shivaji Ganeshan but i am just stating the truth. ``
Ah, the truth....now who could argue with that ?
By the way, I found Hey Ram to be terribly pretentious and Kamal Hasan, although
talented, has an annoying habit of over-reaching in his roles (and generally failing).
``Nobody, i mean nobody in the North is a match to this guy`s talents. I should know
better as i am at ease with both North and South Indian cultures and now-a-days,
am comfortably settled in the West!``
So, you are certain that nobody north of the Vindhyas is a match for Shivaji Ganesan
as an actor ? Hmmm.....
By the way, being at ease with a culture has little to do with judging the quality of
films - jurors in most film festivals are often culturally far removed from the films
they pass judgment on.
``So, believe me, i am no big fan of Shivaji Ganeshan but i am just stating the truth. ``
Ah, the truth....now who could argue with that ?
By the way, I found Hey Ram to be terribly pretentious and Kamal Hasan, although
talented, has an annoying habit of over-reaching in his roles (and generally failing).
#29 Posted by plats8 on August 27, 2004 7:31:52 am
Omar #26,
Why the angst ? Chowk IS an amateur site, and within that realm it is exceptionally
well-run. They should`ve acknowledged that this came out in Dawn earlier, but now
that the point has been made, let it go.
Why the angst ? Chowk IS an amateur site, and within that realm it is exceptionally
well-run. They should`ve acknowledged that this came out in Dawn earlier, but now
that the point has been made, let it go.
#28 Posted by soundmeister on August 27, 2004 7:31:52 am
Not the first article of its kind on chowk. But frankly, I think the author overestimates the effect of Indian media on Pakistani culture. At most it`s a sort of pop culture restrcited to a small percentage of the population.
BTW, just to clarify, Indian saas-bahu soaps are NOT rooted in any sort of reality, just Ekta Kapoor`s imagination. That woman has singlehandedly pushed the feminism movement in India (?) several decades in a remarkably short span of time!
BTW, just to clarify, Indian saas-bahu soaps are NOT rooted in any sort of reality, just Ekta Kapoor`s imagination. That woman has singlehandedly pushed the feminism movement in India (?) several decades in a remarkably short span of time!
#27 Posted by Layman on August 27, 2004 7:31:51 am
Interesting to see the debate between Hindi cinema and Southern language cinema. One grouse of mine with Hindi cinema is that it does not depict an authentic Indian culture, probably because of the pressure/need to appeal to a pan-India audience. Only a small percentage of movies depict the ethnic background or setting of the characters in the movie. And most of these are either UP or Mumbai based themes. You would think that for movies in a `national langauge`, you would expect to see more movies with the main characters being from other parts of India as well, such as Bengal or Karnataka.
The regional language movies are more authentic, as they capture the ethnicity of the characters more accurately. For example, Tamil movies show characters speaking Chennai Tamil, Coimbatore Tamil etc. The dialect varies by region, class and caste - all of this is captured better in regional cinema than in Hindi cinema - which in my opinion is not in Hindi at all, but Urdu or at best, Hindustani. Also, very rarely do you see Hindi cinema showing the caste of a person, unless it is to caricature (the evil moneylender seth or village thakur, for example).
The regional language movies are more authentic, as they capture the ethnicity of the characters more accurately. For example, Tamil movies show characters speaking Chennai Tamil, Coimbatore Tamil etc. The dialect varies by region, class and caste - all of this is captured better in regional cinema than in Hindi cinema - which in my opinion is not in Hindi at all, but Urdu or at best, Hindustani. Also, very rarely do you see Hindi cinema showing the caste of a person, unless it is to caricature (the evil moneylender seth or village thakur, for example).
#26 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on August 26, 2004 10:57:08 pm
stuka jee
For the record, this article appeared in Dawn some time back -- at least a couple of weeks ago. All articles submitted to the paper are accepted on the condition that they are exclusive to the publication (a standard policy). When we publish material from other sources or even from online sites we attribute it to the original place where it was published. That is also standard policy. It is standard practice, and ethical, to attribute the original source of publication (which has not been done) and I should think that you probably know this, in your role as Chowk`s unofficial spokesperson. If this does not constitute plagiarism then I don`t know what does. A good example of a site being run in pretty amateur fashion, as the editors themselves claim (as in they are all not full-time Chowk editors).
For the record, this article appeared in Dawn some time back -- at least a couple of weeks ago. All articles submitted to the paper are accepted on the condition that they are exclusive to the publication (a standard policy). When we publish material from other sources or even from online sites we attribute it to the original place where it was published. That is also standard policy. It is standard practice, and ethical, to attribute the original source of publication (which has not been done) and I should think that you probably know this, in your role as Chowk`s unofficial spokesperson. If this does not constitute plagiarism then I don`t know what does. A good example of a site being run in pretty amateur fashion, as the editors themselves claim (as in they are all not full-time Chowk editors).
#25 Posted by rahul_capri on August 26, 2004 9:35:24 pm
sridhar-
The spirit of song and dance,and the melodrama,is Indian.This was not imported from anywhere,and will always be in Indian movies,North or South. Some of my friends have seen and appreciated the typical Bollywood kitch.I think it is a matter of ``ghar ki murgi``.It is unreal ,no doubt.But it does provide escape.I enjoy my Mystic River and i also enjoy Mujhse Shadi KArogi,not to speak of movies like Devdas.
What do you call Chicago-(which I personally found quite boring)a much appreciated movie not so long ago?
The appreciation in Hollywood of musicals is because all the realism is getting a bit dull and boring.Besides acting in Bollywood is like working in a circus.Riding horses,dancing around trees and fighting atop builings-all this in a day of work.I doubt if Al Pacino,Robert Di Nero,Clint Eastwood can pull it off. (Probably Johny Depp would.)
The spirit of song and dance,and the melodrama,is Indian.This was not imported from anywhere,and will always be in Indian movies,North or South. Some of my friends have seen and appreciated the typical Bollywood kitch.I think it is a matter of ``ghar ki murgi``.It is unreal ,no doubt.But it does provide escape.I enjoy my Mystic River and i also enjoy Mujhse Shadi KArogi,not to speak of movies like Devdas.
What do you call Chicago-(which I personally found quite boring)a much appreciated movie not so long ago?
The appreciation in Hollywood of musicals is because all the realism is getting a bit dull and boring.Besides acting in Bollywood is like working in a circus.Riding horses,dancing around trees and fighting atop builings-all this in a day of work.I doubt if Al Pacino,Robert Di Nero,Clint Eastwood can pull it off. (Probably Johny Depp would.)
#24 Posted by rsridhar on August 26, 2004 8:30:51 pm
re:#21 by rajsinghi1
I am not talking about Bollywood just copying Hollywood`s ideas or music.
I am talking about aping. There is a difference.
Older Indian movies may have copied some ideas or a whole idea (i saw the complete copy of ``The Dial M for Murder`` in Hindi without any acknowledgement to that genius who made it in the first place), but it still retained its Indianness.
The recent Bollywood movies copy the western mannerisms, dress sense etc. There is nothing Indian about the present movies.
Sridhar
I am not talking about Bollywood just copying Hollywood`s ideas or music.
I am talking about aping. There is a difference.
Older Indian movies may have copied some ideas or a whole idea (i saw the complete copy of ``The Dial M for Murder`` in Hindi without any acknowledgement to that genius who made it in the first place), but it still retained its Indianness.
The recent Bollywood movies copy the western mannerisms, dress sense etc. There is nothing Indian about the present movies.
Sridhar
#23 Posted by rsridhar on August 26, 2004 8:30:50 pm
re:#20 by plats8
I do not think u read my post fully.
South Indian directors and movie makers have been making movies in Hindi and regional languages for many decades now. But to say that Bollywood influenced the south is wrong. South Indian movies are very different from the bollywood flicks. At least they do not ape the west.
``Yes, icons they were, but actors they weren`t.``
Have u ever seen Sivaji Ganeshan`s movies? Some of them are superb. His roles are diverse. In Raja raja Cholan, he acts as the King. In Gauravam, he acts as a brahmin advocate (in double role) and completely changes his mannerisms! In ``Thiruvarutchelvar``, the guy is a Shaivite saint, old, aging, senile! And does a superb job. Nobody, i mean nobody in the North is a match to this guy`s talents. I should know better as i am at ease with both North and South Indian cultures and now-a-days, am comfortably settled in the West!
So, believe me, i am no big fan of Shivaji Ganeshan but i am just stating the truth.
Even Kamal Hassan is better than the best Bollywood has to offer. Seen his ``Appu Raja``? or his Hey Ram? The guy is a natural. I think the only people who can be called actors in Bollywood are Naseeruddin Shah and Om Puri. But, both do not get to do any serious roles in Bollywood nowadays. I should also hasten to add that i do like some of Amitabh Bacchan`s recent movies.
Sridhar
I do not think u read my post fully.
South Indian directors and movie makers have been making movies in Hindi and regional languages for many decades now. But to say that Bollywood influenced the south is wrong. South Indian movies are very different from the bollywood flicks. At least they do not ape the west.
``Yes, icons they were, but actors they weren`t.``
Have u ever seen Sivaji Ganeshan`s movies? Some of them are superb. His roles are diverse. In Raja raja Cholan, he acts as the King. In Gauravam, he acts as a brahmin advocate (in double role) and completely changes his mannerisms! In ``Thiruvarutchelvar``, the guy is a Shaivite saint, old, aging, senile! And does a superb job. Nobody, i mean nobody in the North is a match to this guy`s talents. I should know better as i am at ease with both North and South Indian cultures and now-a-days, am comfortably settled in the West!
So, believe me, i am no big fan of Shivaji Ganeshan but i am just stating the truth.
Even Kamal Hassan is better than the best Bollywood has to offer. Seen his ``Appu Raja``? or his Hey Ram? The guy is a natural. I think the only people who can be called actors in Bollywood are Naseeruddin Shah and Om Puri. But, both do not get to do any serious roles in Bollywood nowadays. I should also hasten to add that i do like some of Amitabh Bacchan`s recent movies.
Sridhar
#22 Posted by halur on August 26, 2004 6:38:38 pm
The fears of an indian cultural invasion are over-stated. Bollywood movies are mostly escapism, something the average citizen of both countries need.
Pakistani entertainment is unable to compete with Bollywood , not due to size or talent, but simply because of religious reasons. this is the truth , whether one likes it or not. Female actors are looked upon as being a little better than call-girls. One of the many wonderful benefits of islamization.
As for the one who suggested,pakistanis should watch englsh movies, well, let them eat cake, too!
Pakistani entertainment is unable to compete with Bollywood , not due to size or talent, but simply because of religious reasons. this is the truth , whether one likes it or not. Female actors are looked upon as being a little better than call-girls. One of the many wonderful benefits of islamization.
As for the one who suggested,pakistanis should watch englsh movies, well, let them eat cake, too!
#21 Posted by rajsinghi1 on August 26, 2004 12:00:28 pm
RSridhar
Post#18
Quote:
``Now-a-days, it is just aping the Hollywood.``
Bollywood/Indian movie industry has been following Hollywood almost from day one. Only thing is, earlier, medium of information of was not that easily available to the majority so this information/knowledge even when well known was not that well spread out.
If you ever get chance to read reviews of that time ofold movies , in many of the reviews critics used to give name of the english/hollywood movie from which Indian/hindi movie was copied/inspired. Even music directors of that time have lifted songs, composition of songs from Hollywood movies.
It is just that now people are becoming more aware of these things so they may feel that this is something new, whereas it has been going on for quite a while now.
Post#18
Quote:
``Now-a-days, it is just aping the Hollywood.``
Bollywood/Indian movie industry has been following Hollywood almost from day one. Only thing is, earlier, medium of information of was not that easily available to the majority so this information/knowledge even when well known was not that well spread out.
If you ever get chance to read reviews of that time ofold movies , in many of the reviews critics used to give name of the english/hollywood movie from which Indian/hindi movie was copied/inspired. Even music directors of that time have lifted songs, composition of songs from Hollywood movies.
It is just that now people are becoming more aware of these things so they may feel that this is something new, whereas it has been going on for quite a while now.
Interact Index
Latest Interacts
- khakiflash: I've got so much... Nothing Queer About It
- Saleem_Chauhan: the whole world is... The Future of Indo
- laddu: Re: # 40. it is... The Future of Indo
- tahmed32: and as for this... Pleas For Sanity as
- tahmed32: #173 GT: In other... Pleas For Sanity as
- GT: tahmed: You are simply a... Pleas For Sanity as
- Pew_Research: Following a visit to... Pleas For Sanity as
- tahmed32: #170 is to GT... Pleas For Sanity as
