The Bollywood Effect – is Reema the next Rani?
Zainab Mahmood August 25, 2004
#52 Posted by plats8 on August 31, 2004 12:22:30 pm
MaheshG2 #51,
Ahem...changing the goalposts again, I see. You make a flat claim like Kamal Hassan
is the best actor in the world (or some such thing) and accuse me of making tall claims.
Now that has been pointed out, your defense is that you have seen bundles
of Kamal Hasan movies and are able to stand in judgment. Do we at least agree that
I was not the one making sweeping claims ?
``You have seen just one and you think that`s enough for you to pass judgement on Kamalahassan`s acting skills.``
Assumptions again. How do you know that I have seen only one movie of his ?
Ahem...changing the goalposts again, I see. You make a flat claim like Kamal Hassan
is the best actor in the world (or some such thing) and accuse me of making tall claims.
Now that has been pointed out, your defense is that you have seen bundles
of Kamal Hasan movies and are able to stand in judgment. Do we at least agree that
I was not the one making sweeping claims ?
``You have seen just one and you think that`s enough for you to pass judgement on Kamalahassan`s acting skills.``
Assumptions again. How do you know that I have seen only one movie of his ?
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#51 Posted by MaheshG2 on August 31, 2004 11:21:39 am
Harish_hyd #50,
show me one great actor who has not made a fool of himself at least once.
Plats #49,
Atleast, I have seen enough movies of Kamalahassan and of other actors to make a comparison. You have seen just one and you think that`s enough for you to pass judgement on Kamalahassan`s acting skills.
#50 Posted by harish_hyd on August 30, 2004 11:46:08 pm
MaheshG2 and plats8,
Kamalhasan is undoubtedly a very good actor, but sometimes he tends to overact. This has become rather rampant in his recent movies. I love his earlier movies like Sagara Sangamam (Telugu), Ek Duje Ke Liye, Sadma, Swati Mutyam (Telugu), and Nayakan (Tamil) but in almost every recent movie, he has overreached himself and looked like an amateur.
Kamalhasan is undoubtedly a very good actor, but sometimes he tends to overact. This has become rather rampant in his recent movies. I love his earlier movies like Sagara Sangamam (Telugu), Ek Duje Ke Liye, Sadma, Swati Mutyam (Telugu), and Nayakan (Tamil) but in almost every recent movie, he has overreached himself and looked like an amateur.
#49 Posted by plats8 on August 30, 2004 3:32:03 pm
MaheshG2 #48,
You make this statement : ``Nobody in Bollywood (even Hollywood) can match his
acting skills.`` and accuse me of making tall claims ! Interesting...
Care to show what tall claims/unqualified absolute statements I have made on this
thread ?
You make this statement : ``Nobody in Bollywood (even Hollywood) can match his
acting skills.`` and accuse me of making tall claims ! Interesting...
Care to show what tall claims/unqualified absolute statements I have made on this
thread ?
#48 Posted by MaheshG2 on August 30, 2004 12:36:16 pm
plats #35,
How many Kamalahassan movies have you seen anyway? You have seen one, I gather, from your posts and yet you are all willing to make tall claims.
#47 Posted by soundmeister on August 30, 2004 6:27:56 am
In India, DVDs are available fairly cheap (around 200-300 bucks for the pirated stuff, 500-600 at the organised retailers like Planet M). Nowhere as cheap as Indonesia or Thailand, where you can pick `em up at 100 bucks or less (my last lot was at 80/-, that`s about $1.75 each). Have heard that you get cheap stuff at Pondicherry ( a union territory close to Chennai) but not confirmed.
To answer Urstruly`s question, pirating is rampant. Most of the prints you see on cable are shot in movie theatres, complete with bobbing heads and audience laughter. I thought I spotted a couple making out on ``I,Robot`` on cable last night ;))))
To answer Urstruly`s question, pirating is rampant. Most of the prints you see on cable are shot in movie theatres, complete with bobbing heads and audience laughter. I thought I spotted a couple making out on ``I,Robot`` on cable last night ;))))
#46 Posted by Forever_dune on August 30, 2004 6:27:55 am
Just wondering if I was taught psychology by you in Greenwhich before I left for Ireland. For mutual privacy at chowk, I would appreciate a reply at forever_dune@yahoo.com. I had a lecturer called Zainab Masood. I have a funny feeling it is you.
Adeel Husain
Adeel Husain
#45 Posted by kabuliwallah on August 28, 2004 12:26:45 am
re: urstruly # 34
Videos and VCRs have become almost obsolete in India...it is very rare nowadays to see stores renting video cassettes...at least this is the case in Bangalore...it is mostly VCDs now...most VCDs are rented and sold illegally in India and every now and then there is a huge drive to arrest characters involved in this underground racket. But I think it is just a naam-ke-vaaste exercise designed to keep the movie industry happy. It is a lucrative racket with foreign connections (Dubai and Pakistan) and I think for such a large network to thrive successfully, the racket obviously has political connections. So naturally the naam-ke-vaaste exercises end up being what they are. For some reason, Aamir Khan movies seem to be more successful at not getting pirated. Also nowadays, Hindi movies come out officially on DVD and VCD much earlier than they used to. Like within a few weeks of their theatre release. This trend seems to be global as I notice the same thing with Hollywood movies too. Kazaa and other file sharing devices seem to have distributing companies running for cover.
Watching movies in cinema halls is treated as an experience in India rather than simply watching a movie. The lutf of this ``experience`` is considered watching a movie on a big screen with good sound in total darkness and privacy sitting in an air conditioned environment, conditions unavailable to most Indians in their daily lives. It is also a way for couples to get some alone time, away from joint families. Ticket prices in Bangalore are kind of biased, with English being most expensive at Rs. 75 in AC, Hindi at Rs. 40 in AC and Kannada at Rs. 15. For some strange reason, a city the size of Delhi has only about 20 odd cinema halls. However the PVR chain cinema halls are world-class, and kinda expensive at Rs. 100 a ticket. (This was 2 years ago).
regards
Kabuli
Videos and VCRs have become almost obsolete in India...it is very rare nowadays to see stores renting video cassettes...at least this is the case in Bangalore...it is mostly VCDs now...most VCDs are rented and sold illegally in India and every now and then there is a huge drive to arrest characters involved in this underground racket. But I think it is just a naam-ke-vaaste exercise designed to keep the movie industry happy. It is a lucrative racket with foreign connections (Dubai and Pakistan) and I think for such a large network to thrive successfully, the racket obviously has political connections. So naturally the naam-ke-vaaste exercises end up being what they are. For some reason, Aamir Khan movies seem to be more successful at not getting pirated. Also nowadays, Hindi movies come out officially on DVD and VCD much earlier than they used to. Like within a few weeks of their theatre release. This trend seems to be global as I notice the same thing with Hollywood movies too. Kazaa and other file sharing devices seem to have distributing companies running for cover.
Watching movies in cinema halls is treated as an experience in India rather than simply watching a movie. The lutf of this ``experience`` is considered watching a movie on a big screen with good sound in total darkness and privacy sitting in an air conditioned environment, conditions unavailable to most Indians in their daily lives. It is also a way for couples to get some alone time, away from joint families. Ticket prices in Bangalore are kind of biased, with English being most expensive at Rs. 75 in AC, Hindi at Rs. 40 in AC and Kannada at Rs. 15. For some strange reason, a city the size of Delhi has only about 20 odd cinema halls. However the PVR chain cinema halls are world-class, and kinda expensive at Rs. 100 a ticket. (This was 2 years ago).
regards
Kabuli
#44 Posted by nikki7777 on August 27, 2004 5:17:49 pm
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#43 Posted by kabuliwallah on August 27, 2004 5:17:49 pm
re: 38 plats8
my comments were in response to your statement:
``Yes, icons they were, but actors they weren`t``.
I just wanted to show with the help of an example that thespians like NTR are considered very good actors. This is not to say that they did not make crappy films. But the fact remains that NTR and some other South Indian actors were and are very good. There are other South Indian superstars such as Balakrishna and the many Rajkumar sons (these sons by the way are among the the ugliest specimens of the human species) who though popular, will never be in the same league as their fathers.
I never said that ALL South Indian films are good. This is what I said:
`` I think regional movies have done very well compared to Bollywood. Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards we are talking about here) goes to regional films. Bollywood unashamedly steals, copies and plagiarises from regional movies, especially those from the South.``
I was referring to regional movies, under which South Indian movies also occupy a distinguished place. I was never referring to the run of the mill regional movies, but to the significant # of well-made, thought-provoking ones that tend to be made originally in the vernacular languages. I do agree with how however that Bengalis seem to be ahead of everyone else in making good vernacular-regional cinema.
regards
Kabuli
my comments were in response to your statement:
``Yes, icons they were, but actors they weren`t``.
I just wanted to show with the help of an example that thespians like NTR are considered very good actors. This is not to say that they did not make crappy films. But the fact remains that NTR and some other South Indian actors were and are very good. There are other South Indian superstars such as Balakrishna and the many Rajkumar sons (these sons by the way are among the the ugliest specimens of the human species) who though popular, will never be in the same league as their fathers.
I never said that ALL South Indian films are good. This is what I said:
`` I think regional movies have done very well compared to Bollywood. Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards we are talking about here) goes to regional films. Bollywood unashamedly steals, copies and plagiarises from regional movies, especially those from the South.``
I was referring to regional movies, under which South Indian movies also occupy a distinguished place. I was never referring to the run of the mill regional movies, but to the significant # of well-made, thought-provoking ones that tend to be made originally in the vernacular languages. I do agree with how however that Bengalis seem to be ahead of everyone else in making good vernacular-regional cinema.
regards
Kabuli
#42 Posted by kabuliwallah on August 27, 2004 5:17:49 pm
Following is a link to a list all the Dadasaheb Phalke awards winners and the President`s Gold Medal (Swarna Kamal) winners. Read it and think what you will.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nfa/storypage-report.htm
re: rajsinghi1 # 40 & 41
I think regional cinema is doing pretty well without the need for the Central Govt. to ``encourage, motivate and add commercial success too to the movies.``. Vernacular cinema does not suffer from a lack of commercial success and is quite popular, even the ``arty`` ones. This is in contrast to Bollywood ``art`` movies which bomb more often than not.
``By the way, lot of politics is involved when it comes to awarding National awards to movies in India. IIRC only few years ago there was big controversy on this and many things came out in the open. So National award is not necessarily a yardstick to measure whether movies made in particular language are good or bad.``
What is not affected by corruption and nepotism in India?...do you mean to say that vernacular cinema has more Godfathers than Bollywood? why would that be the case when the movers and shakers of Bollywood command such power and influence. Bollywood, with its vast resources and ties to the vast Hindi Cow belt, could just buy the awards. I think that vernacular cinema wins national awards inspite of the nepotism and corruption. It is a recognition of the lifelong achievement and service of Dada Saheb Phalke award winners to cinema.
The hue and cry you mention vis-a-vis the national awards was when Anil Kapoor, a Bollywood actor, got the national award for Pukar, a jingoistic Hindi film. That was when discerning cinemaphiles cried foul. This was during the Cow-belt rule of the BJP at the centre.
(``And yes, A.R. Rahman and more importantly his guru, Ilayaraja have no peers in the North.``
Would you care to explain what is meant by the above? What is so special about A R Rahman`s music which has not been found in the music in the likes of Naushad, Jaidev, OP Nayyar and some more? How A R Rahman`s music is superior to the music of few names mentioned before, or his knowledge of music more deep or better?)
I used the term peer as in music directors working today. Naushad, Jaidev, OP Nayyar were great; I only wish they were still around, so that cheats like Anu Malik wouldnt be in business.
I think it is very rare for vernacular cinema to copy Bollywood plots, though I did recognise in my earlier posts that Bollywood trends are copied by regional cinema, which I think is a good thing.
I agree with you that Indians have a lot more choice and are creative when it comes to clothing. I was just highlighting the fact that Pakistanis are a lot more creative and seem to work very well with what in effect has become their `awami` dress.
And at the risk of offending my Pakistani friends, I have yet to taste good Pakistani biryani. Having lived in Hyderabad for a few years, nothing compares to the biryani found in the houses and restaurants of that city. Pakistani biryani is almost always greasy and sticky.
regards,
Kabuli
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nfa/storypage-report.htm
re: rajsinghi1 # 40 & 41
I think regional cinema is doing pretty well without the need for the Central Govt. to ``encourage, motivate and add commercial success too to the movies.``. Vernacular cinema does not suffer from a lack of commercial success and is quite popular, even the ``arty`` ones. This is in contrast to Bollywood ``art`` movies which bomb more often than not.
``By the way, lot of politics is involved when it comes to awarding National awards to movies in India. IIRC only few years ago there was big controversy on this and many things came out in the open. So National award is not necessarily a yardstick to measure whether movies made in particular language are good or bad.``
What is not affected by corruption and nepotism in India?...do you mean to say that vernacular cinema has more Godfathers than Bollywood? why would that be the case when the movers and shakers of Bollywood command such power and influence. Bollywood, with its vast resources and ties to the vast Hindi Cow belt, could just buy the awards. I think that vernacular cinema wins national awards inspite of the nepotism and corruption. It is a recognition of the lifelong achievement and service of Dada Saheb Phalke award winners to cinema.
The hue and cry you mention vis-a-vis the national awards was when Anil Kapoor, a Bollywood actor, got the national award for Pukar, a jingoistic Hindi film. That was when discerning cinemaphiles cried foul. This was during the Cow-belt rule of the BJP at the centre.
(``And yes, A.R. Rahman and more importantly his guru, Ilayaraja have no peers in the North.``
Would you care to explain what is meant by the above? What is so special about A R Rahman`s music which has not been found in the music in the likes of Naushad, Jaidev, OP Nayyar and some more? How A R Rahman`s music is superior to the music of few names mentioned before, or his knowledge of music more deep or better?)
I used the term peer as in music directors working today. Naushad, Jaidev, OP Nayyar were great; I only wish they were still around, so that cheats like Anu Malik wouldnt be in business.
I think it is very rare for vernacular cinema to copy Bollywood plots, though I did recognise in my earlier posts that Bollywood trends are copied by regional cinema, which I think is a good thing.
I agree with you that Indians have a lot more choice and are creative when it comes to clothing. I was just highlighting the fact that Pakistanis are a lot more creative and seem to work very well with what in effect has become their `awami` dress.
And at the risk of offending my Pakistani friends, I have yet to taste good Pakistani biryani. Having lived in Hyderabad for a few years, nothing compares to the biryani found in the houses and restaurants of that city. Pakistani biryani is almost always greasy and sticky.
regards,
Kabuli
#41 Posted by rajsinghi1 on August 27, 2004 4:06:45 pm
Kabuliwallah
Post # 32
Quote:
``And yes, A.R. Rahman and more importantly his guru, Ilayaraja have no peers in the North.``
Would you care to explain what is meant by the above? What is so special about A R Rahman`s music which has not been found in the music in the likes of Naushad, Jaidev, OP Nayyar and some more? How A R Rahman`s music is superior to the music of few names mentioned before, or his knowledge of music more deep or better?
As to Hindi movies copying storyline/songs/plots from other regional language movies, well, it is a two way process. Regional language movies too find inspiration from hindi movies and many things get copied. Figures may vary here and there but overall traffic flows both ways.
Coming to creativity in salwar kameez, may I humbly suggest, watch some hindi movies of 60/70/80s and there is plenty of creativity in salwar kameez. Thing which should be kept in mind is that in India or Indian movies, dress is not limited to salwar kameez and they have lot of other type of dresses too to play around with whereas when it comes to Pakistan, choice gets limited comparatively.
Let me try to put this in slightly different way..It is like someone saying, Pakistan is excellent when it comes to making/cooking biryani comparative to India. Fine. But what is being ignored/overlooked or forgotten is that India does not come out only with biryani on the table but other mouth watering dishes like butter chicken, murg massallam, chicken nazuki, pudina laccha prantha and of course biryani too, alongwith many other items. And that biryani in no way is inferior to the biryani coming from Pakistan. But, because variety coming from India is so much that biryani becomes one of the dishes and not the only dish.
Above part (biryani+) has been said in a very light hearted manner...hope people do not take it seriously.
Post # 32
Quote:
``And yes, A.R. Rahman and more importantly his guru, Ilayaraja have no peers in the North.``
Would you care to explain what is meant by the above? What is so special about A R Rahman`s music which has not been found in the music in the likes of Naushad, Jaidev, OP Nayyar and some more? How A R Rahman`s music is superior to the music of few names mentioned before, or his knowledge of music more deep or better?
As to Hindi movies copying storyline/songs/plots from other regional language movies, well, it is a two way process. Regional language movies too find inspiration from hindi movies and many things get copied. Figures may vary here and there but overall traffic flows both ways.
Coming to creativity in salwar kameez, may I humbly suggest, watch some hindi movies of 60/70/80s and there is plenty of creativity in salwar kameez. Thing which should be kept in mind is that in India or Indian movies, dress is not limited to salwar kameez and they have lot of other type of dresses too to play around with whereas when it comes to Pakistan, choice gets limited comparatively.
Let me try to put this in slightly different way..It is like someone saying, Pakistan is excellent when it comes to making/cooking biryani comparative to India. Fine. But what is being ignored/overlooked or forgotten is that India does not come out only with biryani on the table but other mouth watering dishes like butter chicken, murg massallam, chicken nazuki, pudina laccha prantha and of course biryani too, alongwith many other items. And that biryani in no way is inferior to the biryani coming from Pakistan. But, because variety coming from India is so much that biryani becomes one of the dishes and not the only dish.
Above part (biryani+) has been said in a very light hearted manner...hope people do not take it seriously.
#40 Posted by rajsinghi1 on August 27, 2004 3:39:43 pm
Kabuliwallah
Post #37
Quote:
``I think regional movies have done very well compared to Bollywood. Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards we are talking about here) goes to regional films.``
National award, by its very nature/spirit should go more and more to regional language films and probably it does go. That does not mean regional films are better or worse than hindi/bollywood films. Awards like national awards are to encourage, motivate and add commercial success too to the movies. For example, when a movie or an actor/actoress gets Oscar, besides the name and fame, a particular movie and/or people associated with it get another boost to their careers.
By the way, lot of politics is involved when it comes to awarding National awards to movies in India. IIRC only few years ago there was big controversy on this and many things came out in the open. So National award is not necessarily a yardstick to measure whether movies made in particular language are good or bad.
Post #37
Quote:
``I think regional movies have done very well compared to Bollywood. Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards we are talking about here) goes to regional films.``
National award, by its very nature/spirit should go more and more to regional language films and probably it does go. That does not mean regional films are better or worse than hindi/bollywood films. Awards like national awards are to encourage, motivate and add commercial success too to the movies. For example, when a movie or an actor/actoress gets Oscar, besides the name and fame, a particular movie and/or people associated with it get another boost to their careers.
By the way, lot of politics is involved when it comes to awarding National awards to movies in India. IIRC only few years ago there was big controversy on this and many things came out in the open. So National award is not necessarily a yardstick to measure whether movies made in particular language are good or bad.
#39 Posted by arjun_m on August 27, 2004 2:02:25 pm
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#38 Posted by plats8 on August 27, 2004 1:40:55 pm
Kabuli #37,
``Illiterate people in rural Andhra were so mesmerised by his portrayals of Rama,
Krishna, Arjuna etc, that they used to cut out his movie posters (where he is dressed
up as mythological characters) and hang the posters in their shrines.``
I realise that you are not citing this as a testament to their acting prowess. Didn`t
the same sort of thing happen with the Ramayana actors ? Just to clarify, I have no
problem with South Indian films and/or actors. But a run of the mill South Indian/
regional film is made with exactly the same viewing public in mind (and panders to the
same denominator) as Bollywood. I don`t think there`s much scope for anyone to act high
and mighty - that`s all.
``Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards
we are talking about here) goes to regional films.``
Yes, they do - but not necessarily to South Indian films. Bengal seems to be doing
alright in that area. But that doesn`t tell us how bad an average Bengali film is.
``Illiterate people in rural Andhra were so mesmerised by his portrayals of Rama,
Krishna, Arjuna etc, that they used to cut out his movie posters (where he is dressed
up as mythological characters) and hang the posters in their shrines.``
I realise that you are not citing this as a testament to their acting prowess. Didn`t
the same sort of thing happen with the Ramayana actors ? Just to clarify, I have no
problem with South Indian films and/or actors. But a run of the mill South Indian/
regional film is made with exactly the same viewing public in mind (and panders to the
same denominator) as Bollywood. I don`t think there`s much scope for anyone to act high
and mighty - that`s all.
``Almost every national award (not filmfare mind you, these are the national awards
we are talking about here) goes to regional films.``
Yes, they do - but not necessarily to South Indian films. Bengal seems to be doing
alright in that area. But that doesn`t tell us how bad an average Bengali film is.
#37 Posted by kkkandk on August 27, 2004 10:57:30 am
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