The Bollywood Effect – is Reema the next Rani?
Zainab Mahmood August 25, 2004
#1 Posted by amit on August 25, 2004 1:10:07 pm
Look, India and Pakistan are like two lovers who have split up but have an amazing chemistry with each other that will never go away, no matter what you do. So it is futile to lament cultural invasions, when it is really the same culture. If after 57 years of separation and hostility it is like this, what will happen if we actually become close again?
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#2 Posted by stuka on August 25, 2004 2:37:14 pm
I agree Amit. India and Pakistan are basically one. Patta nahi ham alag kyon ho gayey!
Wah wah, with such sweet words Pakistanis get a fire in their ass and then rage against the duplicity of us Banias. LOL!! Don`t u realize that the words above negate Pakistani identity and actually worsen their paranoia about Indians?
Wah wah, with such sweet words Pakistanis get a fire in their ass and then rage against the duplicity of us Banias. LOL!! Don`t u realize that the words above negate Pakistani identity and actually worsen their paranoia about Indians?
#3 Posted by SameerJB on August 25, 2004 3:53:15 pm
I prefer English movies over Hindustani/ Hindi movies in the foreign languages movie category. No comparison with English movies!!! Hindi movies should be about as popular in Pakistan as they are in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or Tamil Nadu. Pakistanis should watch English movies and learn English language.
#4 Posted by bongdongs on August 25, 2004 3:53:15 pm
Now I can understand the American pain with regard to piracy. If only all Paki`s just paid a rupee each time they watched a Hindi movie ....
#5 Posted by kaurasach on August 25, 2004 3:53:15 pm
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#6 Posted by kaurasach on August 25, 2004 3:53:15 pm
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#7 Posted by mohar11 on August 25, 2004 3:53:15 pm
//..what will happen if we actually become close again...//
Exactly. That`s the paki army`s worst nightmare.
Exactly. That`s the paki army`s worst nightmare.
#8 Posted by nikki7777 on August 25, 2004 6:15:25 pm
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#9 Posted by dost_mittar on August 25, 2004 6:51:29 pm
As I had said at another thread, this trend is irreversible. Pakistani entertainment industry is facing the same problem that Canada is facing with the 1000 pound gorilla next door. The only solution for Pakistan is to develop a niche market and excel in it, as they did one time with the Urdu dramas. Or look west to Iran for some lessons.
chowk staff:
This article already appeared in Dawn magazine. In fact, I had pasted it in one of my interacts on the Bachan-Nadeem board.
chowk staff:
This article already appeared in Dawn magazine. In fact, I had pasted it in one of my interacts on the Bachan-Nadeem board.
#10 Posted by AhmadBilal on August 25, 2004 10:05:54 pm
Pakistan’s new music industry has good prospects if they keep up the pace. There is a (relatively) small but growing urban youth subculture in Pakistan consisting of fans of local rock music, which doesn’t have any competition from across the border. Fusion of rock/metal with influences from folk/classical music has become a creative force on its own. Some of these artists are expanding their fan base to India, UAE, UK and North America as well through contracts with foreign record labels. It would be interesting to see how things shape up for Pakistani music in next decade.
#11 Posted by echoboom on August 25, 2004 10:05:54 pm
No wonder those who write for the trash magazines ( mostly they are in the english language--Low on I.Q, high on looking ``faarin``--the illiterates and ignorants of Pakistan)
People of Pakistan watched Indian movies and listened to Indian music, commerce flourished between the two countries, and intra-travel was pretty easy from 47-65. Now all this was happening when the wounds of cross-migration & killings were still raw. Most likely the movies worked more towards assuaging such pain.
This continued till the Indian movies were banned as a reaction more to the double standard exercised by the scheming & cunning Indian distributors who formed a clique against exhibiting quality Pakistani movies in Indian theatres ( after the ``naukar`` success).
Indian movies continued to be popular in Pakistan because , frankly, the quality, both content and production-wise, was superb. Even much much better than the Hollywood movies.Most of H/w movies, even today, are high on tech. and low on touch. Of course some superb movies were made by european directors or their first-generations in Hollywood as well.
SO? what do we learn: We learn that the movie-goers [ the public, the masses, the informed ones--not the goraagoochaaters who happen to be the most illiterate of Pakistan & the world over] keep their hatred for U.S or Indian policies as quite separate . Hatred upnee jagaa, movies upnee jagaa. People watch and do things which brings value to their time and money. They are NOT in the business of social-enginieering or applying faarin ``educatedness`` to test their ghetto pol-sci-lit kind of nonsense Unknowledge..the westernised kind.
If you are not keeping yourself informed by reading Urdu newspapers and not moving around among the Sattar-Edhi crowd and take pride in an apologetic sort of way in saying so often `` jee mujhhay urdu naheeN aatee``. Like that kanjRRee, Shabana Azmi, does.[ yes `wife` of Javaid Akhtar and d/o Kaifee Azmi]
It was around the 1965 war that commerce was affected and travel became increasingly restricted after that.
The revival and blooming of the Ghazal would not have been possible and the quality and creativity of Pakistani music & dramas would not have been possible without such free exchange.
The kanjaRR class has always existed and will always exist. People enjoy them but do not really want to do anything to do with them after the ``act`` and ``performance`` Anyone who has to trade-in the last frontiers of ones possesion must always be treated with contempt.
That is why one is always advised to keep the KanjaRRs in their place. They are simply performers, actors and therefore must be asked to keep to their station; even if wealthy and english-accented.
[of course Satyajit Ray and so many others and ANYONE who does not resort to exhibitionism and kanjaRR-puNN deserve all the respect and adoration ]
People of Pakistan watched Indian movies and listened to Indian music, commerce flourished between the two countries, and intra-travel was pretty easy from 47-65. Now all this was happening when the wounds of cross-migration & killings were still raw. Most likely the movies worked more towards assuaging such pain.
This continued till the Indian movies were banned as a reaction more to the double standard exercised by the scheming & cunning Indian distributors who formed a clique against exhibiting quality Pakistani movies in Indian theatres ( after the ``naukar`` success).
Indian movies continued to be popular in Pakistan because , frankly, the quality, both content and production-wise, was superb. Even much much better than the Hollywood movies.Most of H/w movies, even today, are high on tech. and low on touch. Of course some superb movies were made by european directors or their first-generations in Hollywood as well.
SO? what do we learn: We learn that the movie-goers [ the public, the masses, the informed ones--not the goraagoochaaters who happen to be the most illiterate of Pakistan & the world over] keep their hatred for U.S or Indian policies as quite separate . Hatred upnee jagaa, movies upnee jagaa. People watch and do things which brings value to their time and money. They are NOT in the business of social-enginieering or applying faarin ``educatedness`` to test their ghetto pol-sci-lit kind of nonsense Unknowledge..the westernised kind.
If you are not keeping yourself informed by reading Urdu newspapers and not moving around among the Sattar-Edhi crowd and take pride in an apologetic sort of way in saying so often `` jee mujhhay urdu naheeN aatee``. Like that kanjRRee, Shabana Azmi, does.[ yes `wife` of Javaid Akhtar and d/o Kaifee Azmi]
It was around the 1965 war that commerce was affected and travel became increasingly restricted after that.
The revival and blooming of the Ghazal would not have been possible and the quality and creativity of Pakistani music & dramas would not have been possible without such free exchange.
The kanjaRR class has always existed and will always exist. People enjoy them but do not really want to do anything to do with them after the ``act`` and ``performance`` Anyone who has to trade-in the last frontiers of ones possesion must always be treated with contempt.
That is why one is always advised to keep the KanjaRRs in their place. They are simply performers, actors and therefore must be asked to keep to their station; even if wealthy and english-accented.
[of course Satyajit Ray and so many others and ANYONE who does not resort to exhibitionism and kanjaRR-puNN deserve all the respect and adoration ]
#12 Posted by rahul_capri on August 25, 2004 10:05:54 pm
dost-mittar I think there is a niche market.For eg. Ghazals n pop music.Even the casual listener would know that-if Jagjit Singh n Pankaj Udhas are Diet coke n club soda then Mehndi Hasan n Ghulam Ali are rum n scotch.
In pop music we only have an occasional Euphoria and Silk Route,while Pakistan has a tradition of internationally visible talent like Junoon,Strings etc.
And then there is stand up comedy.Is Shekhar Suman any comparison for Omar Sharif?
In Pujabi folk music , we had Asa Singh Mastana ,Gurdaas Maan and Pakistan had Reshma.Here,I am only talking about those we know in India.
Renting videos of Pakistani serials used to be the rage not so long ago.I remember one which used to be my mother`s favorite-Ankahi ,the one about Sana Murad. And the comedy skit-Baqra Kisto pay.
In case of television,i think it is just a matter of packaging and promotion.For one, fluff is literally pushed down your throat on Indian TV and secondly there is a certain curiosity about Pakistan just as there would be in Pakistan about India. I strongly believe that a TV channel with Pakistan based programming and right promotion would do big in India,though I am out of touch of Indian TV for quite a few years now.
In movies,perhaps the difference in production values is much more pronounced.I dont know.
In pop music we only have an occasional Euphoria and Silk Route,while Pakistan has a tradition of internationally visible talent like Junoon,Strings etc.
And then there is stand up comedy.Is Shekhar Suman any comparison for Omar Sharif?
In Pujabi folk music , we had Asa Singh Mastana ,Gurdaas Maan and Pakistan had Reshma.Here,I am only talking about those we know in India.
Renting videos of Pakistani serials used to be the rage not so long ago.I remember one which used to be my mother`s favorite-Ankahi ,the one about Sana Murad. And the comedy skit-Baqra Kisto pay.
In case of television,i think it is just a matter of packaging and promotion.For one, fluff is literally pushed down your throat on Indian TV and secondly there is a certain curiosity about Pakistan just as there would be in Pakistan about India. I strongly believe that a TV channel with Pakistan based programming and right promotion would do big in India,though I am out of touch of Indian TV for quite a few years now.
In movies,perhaps the difference in production values is much more pronounced.I dont know.
#13 Posted by canadadryer on August 25, 2004 10:05:54 pm
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#14 Posted by omar_r_quraishi on August 26, 2004 7:08:39 am
dostmittar: chowk staff:
This article already appeared in Dawn magazine. In fact, I had pasted it in one of my interacts on the Bachan-Nadeem board.
Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, this appeared in The Review a couple of weeks ago. It appears that Chowk has embraced plagiarism in a big way. Wonder why, when it is pointed out to them, they don`t add the attribution at the end of the piece.
This article already appeared in Dawn magazine. In fact, I had pasted it in one of my interacts on the Bachan-Nadeem board.
Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, this appeared in The Review a couple of weeks ago. It appears that Chowk has embraced plagiarism in a big way. Wonder why, when it is pointed out to them, they don`t add the attribution at the end of the piece.
#15 Posted by kabuliwallah on August 26, 2004 7:08:52 am
Hi Zainab,
This phenomenon occurs in India also...as in North Indian culture ``invading`` South India and other parts of India...though vernacular cinema is strong and popular in South India, it has to be admitted that Bollywood movies are better packaged with more attractive actors...South Indian movies, though original and some with excellent storylines(many, if not most Bollywood movies are remakes of movies from the South), are not really that well packaged, what with overweight female actors and wig-wearing baldy and old populist male superstars...so it is only natural that Bollywood movies set the trends...remember that shalwar kameez was not really popular in South India even around fifteen years ago. But now almost every unmarried woman almost exclusively wears them. I have nothing against shalwar kameez, in fact if cut properly, it can be a beautiful ornament, but South Indian dresses such as Onis are rarely seen nowadays. Even this so called Bollywood/``Indian`` culture can be restricted to only certain groups of people in India. Observe the last names in almost all the movies and dramas. The characters are almost all from Kayasth and Punjabi Khatri communities what with the Mishras, Malhotras, Kapoors, Bhatias etc. Where are the Gujars, Jats, Yadavs, Dalits, Ahirs, Reddys, Mahars, Naidus, Gowdas, Lingayats, Tribals etc of India who form the vast majority?...the ``Indian`` culture that is portrayed in Indian media is in fact the culture of just a few groups such as Khatris and Kayasths. Even if other groups are portrayed, it is usually in the form of comic relief, for example Parsis, Madrasis (Bollywood term for ALL South Indians) and Sikhs. Anglo-Indians are usually portrayed as drunkards, loose etcetera, etcetera...Now just spare a thought or two for North-Eastern Indians, who dont so much as get a mention in ``Indian`` media...the closest thing you might have seen is maybe a Shaab salaaming Gurkha...I`m sure 9.95 out of 10 Indians would not be able to name the capitals of the seven north-eastern states...that is how much exposure they get in Indian media...So friend, relax, you are in good company... ``Indian`` culture portrayed in Indian media frustrates and challenges many Indian cultures and Indian identities. As someone has already said on this thread, one way to counter this ``invasion`` is to develop niche programs. Pakistani music bands have always set the trend in South Asia, what with the Hassan siblings, Vital Signs, Strings, Junoon etc. Though it has always amused me when my Pakistani friends feel outraged when they hear Indian artists perform what they claim as Pakistani songs: songs which have been part of our shared heritage for hundreds of years; marriage songs for example...Coming back to niche programs, Pakistani dramas of old were excellent...there is a Pakistani hole-in-the-wall restaurant where I often get take out from, in Houston...the other day, while waiting for my order, I was watching what looked like a partition era TV serial on GEO channel...the portrayal of Hindus and Sikhs on that program can be described sadly as nothing but bigotry and hatred. Far from following in the glorious footsteps of Tanhaayiyaan, Kasak etc, Pakistani Drama seems to be going in the opposite direction...but then again it was just one show and I maybe wrong...anyways, in India, Malayalam cinema is very powerful and often has first dibs on National Cinema awards...Sikhs have found their own niche through original and rehashed versions of centuries old Punjabi folk
regards
Kabuli
This phenomenon occurs in India also...as in North Indian culture ``invading`` South India and other parts of India...though vernacular cinema is strong and popular in South India, it has to be admitted that Bollywood movies are better packaged with more attractive actors...South Indian movies, though original and some with excellent storylines(many, if not most Bollywood movies are remakes of movies from the South), are not really that well packaged, what with overweight female actors and wig-wearing baldy and old populist male superstars...so it is only natural that Bollywood movies set the trends...remember that shalwar kameez was not really popular in South India even around fifteen years ago. But now almost every unmarried woman almost exclusively wears them. I have nothing against shalwar kameez, in fact if cut properly, it can be a beautiful ornament, but South Indian dresses such as Onis are rarely seen nowadays. Even this so called Bollywood/``Indian`` culture can be restricted to only certain groups of people in India. Observe the last names in almost all the movies and dramas. The characters are almost all from Kayasth and Punjabi Khatri communities what with the Mishras, Malhotras, Kapoors, Bhatias etc. Where are the Gujars, Jats, Yadavs, Dalits, Ahirs, Reddys, Mahars, Naidus, Gowdas, Lingayats, Tribals etc of India who form the vast majority?...the ``Indian`` culture that is portrayed in Indian media is in fact the culture of just a few groups such as Khatris and Kayasths. Even if other groups are portrayed, it is usually in the form of comic relief, for example Parsis, Madrasis (Bollywood term for ALL South Indians) and Sikhs. Anglo-Indians are usually portrayed as drunkards, loose etcetera, etcetera...Now just spare a thought or two for North-Eastern Indians, who dont so much as get a mention in ``Indian`` media...the closest thing you might have seen is maybe a Shaab salaaming Gurkha...I`m sure 9.95 out of 10 Indians would not be able to name the capitals of the seven north-eastern states...that is how much exposure they get in Indian media...So friend, relax, you are in good company... ``Indian`` culture portrayed in Indian media frustrates and challenges many Indian cultures and Indian identities. As someone has already said on this thread, one way to counter this ``invasion`` is to develop niche programs. Pakistani music bands have always set the trend in South Asia, what with the Hassan siblings, Vital Signs, Strings, Junoon etc. Though it has always amused me when my Pakistani friends feel outraged when they hear Indian artists perform what they claim as Pakistani songs: songs which have been part of our shared heritage for hundreds of years; marriage songs for example...Coming back to niche programs, Pakistani dramas of old were excellent...there is a Pakistani hole-in-the-wall restaurant where I often get take out from, in Houston...the other day, while waiting for my order, I was watching what looked like a partition era TV serial on GEO channel...the portrayal of Hindus and Sikhs on that program can be described sadly as nothing but bigotry and hatred. Far from following in the glorious footsteps of Tanhaayiyaan, Kasak etc, Pakistani Drama seems to be going in the opposite direction...but then again it was just one show and I maybe wrong...anyways, in India, Malayalam cinema is very powerful and often has first dibs on National Cinema awards...Sikhs have found their own niche through original and rehashed versions of centuries old Punjabi folk
regards
Kabuli
#16 Posted by dionysus on August 26, 2004 7:08:52 am
#7 sameer
This article is your typical leftist fantasy - reworking reality to fit their fuddy duddy perspectives. Indian entertainment is no where near as popular as it was during the Zia era. At that time Zia`s Islamizaition fraud created a huge vacum that the Indians could fill. Pakistan`s entertainment industry has recovered quite a bit since then and consquently pushed the Indians out. During Zia`s time the latest Indian hits could be heard all over Pakistan soon after they were relased in India. Not any more. The only Indian stuff I hear in the shops, on the buses etc is the old classic stuff by Rafi, Mangeskar etc.
..BUT, regarding your point about Bangladesh. For Bangladeshis Hindi-Urdu is a foriegn language. For Pakistanis it is the `national language` And as long as we continue to use Hindi as Pakistan`s national language, Indianizaiton of the Indus Valley, sooner or later, is inevitable.
This article is your typical leftist fantasy - reworking reality to fit their fuddy duddy perspectives. Indian entertainment is no where near as popular as it was during the Zia era. At that time Zia`s Islamizaition fraud created a huge vacum that the Indians could fill. Pakistan`s entertainment industry has recovered quite a bit since then and consquently pushed the Indians out. During Zia`s time the latest Indian hits could be heard all over Pakistan soon after they were relased in India. Not any more. The only Indian stuff I hear in the shops, on the buses etc is the old classic stuff by Rafi, Mangeskar etc.
..BUT, regarding your point about Bangladesh. For Bangladeshis Hindi-Urdu is a foriegn language. For Pakistanis it is the `national language` And as long as we continue to use Hindi as Pakistan`s national language, Indianizaiton of the Indus Valley, sooner or later, is inevitable.
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