Musharraf: Excerpts from an Interview in NYT
Sushil Bhatnagar September 21, 2004
#84 Posted by nakhok on September 24, 2004 7:11:16 pm
#78 M.B.Z.Isphahani
*****
Few months ago I went to India. ..... looked worse than in 1947.
*****
1947 was a long time ago. Most chowkees were not even born at that time. M.B.Z.Isphahani obviously doesn`t remeber what he saw in 1947 - not surprising in persons of his age. Ronald Reagan was just an extreme case in the last years of his life.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3314331.stm
BBC News
Monday, 15 December, 2003, 11:05 GMT
Bangalore - better by design
By Charles Haviland
Bangalore may now have rivals as India`s technological epicentre, but the southern city is basking in a new reputation as its designer capital.
Along with Tallinn in Estonia, Sao Paulo in Brazil and the more predictable London and Paris, Bangalore was one of 12 cities recently named by US magazine Newsweek as the world`s top hot spots for design.
It starts with designer drink.
Coffee bars, which have sprung up in many cities where people have got rich quick, abound here.
But they are already being made to look passe by a new concept - the tea bar.
``Infinitea`` boasts tables made of tea bushes and a slew of bold new tea concepts.
``We`ve tried to give a whole New World look to the Old World thing that is tea,`` says its 24-year-old creator, Gaurav Saria.
``Besides the effect on the palate, it is visually very appealing.``
Cue Enigma on the Rocks - brewed in the fridge and served in a whisky glass to look like scotch.
Or Stupa - fine tea leaves tied together into a bud and placed in a transparent cup.
When water is poured on it slowly blossoms open, looking like a sea anemone.
Gaurav is from Calcutta but chose Bangalore as his springboard because he says it is full of open-minded newcomers - ``people from every field of business``.
Graduate influx
Across the park, design and fashion guru Prasad Bidapa works out of a cavernous old building, once a dance hall, car showroom and printing press.
He has left its wooden floors untreated and bare.
``I just thought the space was so beautiful, and it`s just got a huge amount of soul,`` he says as his staff quiz a would-be model from Madras.
``Because we rehearse theatre and fashion shows, it never looks the same way twice when you walk in.``
Prasad says Bangalore has become India`s design capital because many graduates from the National Institute of Design in Gujarat have made their home here.
At the institute`s recent awards, more than half the winners were from this city.
Inspiration spans branded clothing to revamped traditional crafts to a home-grown electrical car seen all over town, the Reva, which Prasad says is the answer to urban congestion.
``It zips around very smartly, it comes in fashionable colours - and trust me, you can park it on a dime!``
Old and new
It is in architectural design that Bangalore is evolving most rapidly.
Walking down its main shopping streets, Brigade Road and Mahatma Gandhi Road, you see plate-glass malls interspersed with just a few of the beautiful colonial-era bungalows the city was once famous for.
Some have been lovingly preserved; many others knocked down.
The architectural historian, TP Issar, refuses to wallow in nostalgia.
The new buildings, he says, are ``modern and good, well constructed. The core character as a green city of beautifully laid out gardens and flowering trees is still there.``
But, pointing out that old buildings are often demolished when privately sold, he sounds a warning note.
``Selectively some of that heritage, even though privately owned, has to be kept,`` he says.
``That can only be done when you set up a body with statutory powers and funding. Apparently that is not an area of top priority in Bangalore yet. Which is a pity.``
But he is hopeful that will happen soon.
There are some successful marriages of old with new.
At the hottest new nightclub in town, Spinn, the lounge is lined with dazzling white seating, its bar ingeniously opening on to the courtyard on the other side.
The whole interior is peppered with circular mirrors and luminescent green and red discs, reminiscent of CDs.
Yet on the outside it is still an Art Deco bungalow dating from 1940.
``I wanted to keep it and give it to the public - the teak wood, the high roof and tiles,`` says owner KR Rajanna.
Nevertheless, Spinn`s marriage of old and new is an exception.
Most new buildings come up in the rubble of the old, which prompts mixed feelings among Bangaloreans.
But in a city where many have chosen to come to live, most are happy to endorse it as India`s designer capital.
*****
Few months ago I went to India. ..... looked worse than in 1947.
*****
1947 was a long time ago. Most chowkees were not even born at that time. M.B.Z.Isphahani obviously doesn`t remeber what he saw in 1947 - not surprising in persons of his age. Ronald Reagan was just an extreme case in the last years of his life.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3314331.stm
BBC News
Monday, 15 December, 2003, 11:05 GMT
Bangalore - better by design
By Charles Haviland
Bangalore may now have rivals as India`s technological epicentre, but the southern city is basking in a new reputation as its designer capital.
Along with Tallinn in Estonia, Sao Paulo in Brazil and the more predictable London and Paris, Bangalore was one of 12 cities recently named by US magazine Newsweek as the world`s top hot spots for design.
It starts with designer drink.
Coffee bars, which have sprung up in many cities where people have got rich quick, abound here.
But they are already being made to look passe by a new concept - the tea bar.
``Infinitea`` boasts tables made of tea bushes and a slew of bold new tea concepts.
``We`ve tried to give a whole New World look to the Old World thing that is tea,`` says its 24-year-old creator, Gaurav Saria.
``Besides the effect on the palate, it is visually very appealing.``
Cue Enigma on the Rocks - brewed in the fridge and served in a whisky glass to look like scotch.
Or Stupa - fine tea leaves tied together into a bud and placed in a transparent cup.
When water is poured on it slowly blossoms open, looking like a sea anemone.
Gaurav is from Calcutta but chose Bangalore as his springboard because he says it is full of open-minded newcomers - ``people from every field of business``.
Graduate influx
Across the park, design and fashion guru Prasad Bidapa works out of a cavernous old building, once a dance hall, car showroom and printing press.
He has left its wooden floors untreated and bare.
``I just thought the space was so beautiful, and it`s just got a huge amount of soul,`` he says as his staff quiz a would-be model from Madras.
``Because we rehearse theatre and fashion shows, it never looks the same way twice when you walk in.``
Prasad says Bangalore has become India`s design capital because many graduates from the National Institute of Design in Gujarat have made their home here.
At the institute`s recent awards, more than half the winners were from this city.
Inspiration spans branded clothing to revamped traditional crafts to a home-grown electrical car seen all over town, the Reva, which Prasad says is the answer to urban congestion.
``It zips around very smartly, it comes in fashionable colours - and trust me, you can park it on a dime!``
Old and new
It is in architectural design that Bangalore is evolving most rapidly.
Walking down its main shopping streets, Brigade Road and Mahatma Gandhi Road, you see plate-glass malls interspersed with just a few of the beautiful colonial-era bungalows the city was once famous for.
Some have been lovingly preserved; many others knocked down.
The architectural historian, TP Issar, refuses to wallow in nostalgia.
The new buildings, he says, are ``modern and good, well constructed. The core character as a green city of beautifully laid out gardens and flowering trees is still there.``
But, pointing out that old buildings are often demolished when privately sold, he sounds a warning note.
``Selectively some of that heritage, even though privately owned, has to be kept,`` he says.
``That can only be done when you set up a body with statutory powers and funding. Apparently that is not an area of top priority in Bangalore yet. Which is a pity.``
But he is hopeful that will happen soon.
There are some successful marriages of old with new.
At the hottest new nightclub in town, Spinn, the lounge is lined with dazzling white seating, its bar ingeniously opening on to the courtyard on the other side.
The whole interior is peppered with circular mirrors and luminescent green and red discs, reminiscent of CDs.
Yet on the outside it is still an Art Deco bungalow dating from 1940.
``I wanted to keep it and give it to the public - the teak wood, the high roof and tiles,`` says owner KR Rajanna.
Nevertheless, Spinn`s marriage of old and new is an exception.
Most new buildings come up in the rubble of the old, which prompts mixed feelings among Bangaloreans.
But in a city where many have chosen to come to live, most are happy to endorse it as India`s designer capital.
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#83 Posted by nakhok on September 24, 2004 5:54:55 pm
#60 HisExcellency
*****
Why single out Islam alone? Naipaul`s [crazy] formula should also be applied to India and Israel. After all, the only 2 states that expanded their borders through military invasion during the last 60 years are Hindu-majority and Jewish-majority states. The former invaded Kashmir in 1948, the latter occupied Palestinian territories in 1967.
*****
HisExccellency has it all wrong. It was Pakistan that invaded Jammu & Kashmir even after it had signed a stand-still agreement with the ruler of the princely kingdom.
Pakistan was wrong in 1947 to send in tribal militia to ``liberate`` Jammu & Kashmir. If much of Jammu & Kashmir ended up outside Pakistan`s control, it is only because members of Pakistan tribal militia had stopped for ``rest and recreation`` in Baramulla, a few miles short of Srinagar. It is this delay that allowed India to land its troops in Srinagar.
Pakistan was just as wrong in the closing decades of the century to unleash the veterans of the Afghan war on Jammu & Kashmir. The Kargil misadventure was brinkmanship at its worst. The Generals were playing with fire when they assumed it was quite all right to use violence to alter the ceasefire line between two nuclear weapon states. War is just not a rational option for either Islamabad or New Delhi.
Here are a few writeups from Pakistan that give a candid picture of how Pakistan got initiated in the business of liberating Kashmir. Needless to say it had nothing to do with the liberation of Kashmiris - it was all about real estate and self indulgence.
Excerpt from Article in DAWN (07/27/99):
Kargil - before and after
By Zafar Iqbal
``MILITARILY, the critical point which was supposed to have created the Kashmir problem was the hiatus in the tribesman`s march towards Srinagar when they stopped for
a bit of ``rest and recreation`` (R&R) at Baramulla about a dozen miles from Srinagar airport. Their concept of recreation included a diversion into some looting and pillage and possibly a bit of rape on the side.
Anyway, whatever the truth, this window of opportunity permitted the Indians to capture Srinagar airport and bring in reinforcements; at least so the story is told. The ultimate result was the cease-fire line.``
DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
10 April, 2000
Kashmir: time to change tack
By Brig (retd) M. Sher Khan
``The story of Kashmir is a long saga, which started at the very inception of the new-born nation of Pakistan. While the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir was wavering about deciding which of the two new dominions his largely Muslim state should accede to, large tribal lashkars from the NWFP region invaded the state with the aim of forcing the Maharaja`s hand in acceding to Pakistan. When these lashkars were in a position to seize Srinagar and its airport, the lust for spoils, loot and pillage got the better of them. The Maharaja panicked and sought Indian intercession, the price of which was that he should first sign an instrument of accession.``
Excerpt from Article in Pakistan Link (1/28/2000):
Men and Events That Mattered in Pakistan
By Mohammad Ashraf Chaudhry
``The Kashmir problem which brought Pakistan to the three most costly wars it fought with India with the fourth looming on the horizon, might have been solved had Liaquat Ali Khan, the then PM, accepted Sardar Patel`s proposal to exchange Hyderabad with the Valley. As Sardar Shaukat Hayat puts it, Liaquat Ali Khan brushed aside the proposal by saying, ``Sardar Sahib, do you take me for a fool to accept a few hills in exchange for the vast plains of Deccan?`` India usurped Hyderabad anyway and forcefully occupied Kashmir too, leaving Pakistanis ruminating as to who was right, Liaquat Ali Khan or the Sardar of Wah who insisted on accepting it.
If this sounds somewhat dramatic, here is another event that let Kashmir slip away from Pakistan`s lap. In 1948 the, Tribal ``Mujahidins``, brought by Major Khurshid, had reached Srinagar which lay deserted. As they put their hands on the National Bank and came by some 3 lac rupees, it so happened that while the Major insisted on taking away that money as it belonged to the government of Pakistan, the ``Mujahidins`` on the contrary persisted in their demand to celebrate Eid-ul-Azha along with it, and in this tug of war they lost three most precious days. This lull and halt provided India enough time to rush its deployments to the area and what happened next to the rest of the story as far as Kashmir is concerned is well known to all.``
Now, as for HisExcellency`s gripes about Israel, they are completely unwarranted and stem from the prejudices of the Islamic world against the Jews that dates back to the time of Muhammed himself.
It would be wise of HisExcellency to walk a little in the other party`s mocasins before mouthing his hatred for the Jews.
Cooler tempers might prevail if HisExcellency mulls over what he would have done in 1948 if he were a holocaust survivor. Wouldn`t he have done everything in his power to defeat the Arab armies that invaded Israel?
More importantly, HisExcellency might want to mull over the fact that Palestine was a two-way street at that moment in history. Yes, many a Palestinian ( 0.5 million?) fled his ancestral home in the wake of Palestine`s partition. But at least an equal number of Jews got thrown out from Arab countries (from Morocco to Iraq) and even from Iran.
Today, the majority of Jews in Israel are Shephardic Jews most of whom have either lived in Palestine for centuries or are from Arab lands.
In fact, the downfall of the Labor Party in Israel and the rise of the hard line Likud is specifically related to this demographic mix - the better educated Ashkenazic Jews (of Yiddish heritage) yielding to the numerically dominant Shephardic Jews.
Needless to say, these Shephardic Jews have no reason to feel that they owe anything to the Palestinians who had lost their ancestral home. More importantly, the Shephardic Jews have genuine cause to resent the Arab countries that threw them out of their ancestral home in the aftermath of Palestine`s partition.
If HisExcellency mulls over the facts, I am sure he`ll see how illogical and unreasonable it was for him to denounce Israel who have been far more sinned against than sinning.
More importantly, HisExcellency will realize how unreasonable are those that will not settle for peace for anything less than the Palestinians` right to return to their ancestral land.
*****
Of the 50+ Muslim countries today, how many states are occupying another peoples` lands?
*****
HisExcellency might want to research how those 50+countries became Muslim in the first place. Was it by turning the other cheek?!!! Is it any wonder that none of the two dozen Arab states are willing to resettle the Palestinians in their midst even as they have got rid of at least as many Jews from their lands? Neither Pan-Arabism nor Ummah have allowed Palestinians to settle down and live in dignity in any of the two dozen Arab states between Morocco on the Atlantic Ocean and Iraq on the Persian Gulf.
Come to think of it, the half million Hindu Sindhis who were driven into exile at India`s partition have a far stronger cause for grievance than the half million Palestinians who went into exile at Palestine`s partition. The Palestinians can easily choose to be be at home in any of the 2 dozen Arab countries who speak the same language as them. Such is not the case with the Hindu Sindhis who were forced into the Diaspora in 1947 and who must live in lands where the Sindhi language can at best try to survive unobtrusively in a non-Sindhi land.
*****
Most Muslim states today are inner-directed, trying to harmonize modernity with religion internally.
*****
HisExcellency is being disingenous. The Ummah didn`t just turn into the fountainhead of global terrorism by ``trying to harmonize modernity with religion internally.`` Belief in God-sanctioned jihad between Dar-ul-harb and Dar-ul-Islam isn`t the symptom of an ``inner-directed`` society ``trying to harmonize modernity with religion internally.``
*****
Why single out Islam alone? Naipaul`s [crazy] formula should also be applied to India and Israel. After all, the only 2 states that expanded their borders through military invasion during the last 60 years are Hindu-majority and Jewish-majority states. The former invaded Kashmir in 1948, the latter occupied Palestinian territories in 1967.
*****
HisExccellency has it all wrong. It was Pakistan that invaded Jammu & Kashmir even after it had signed a stand-still agreement with the ruler of the princely kingdom.
Pakistan was wrong in 1947 to send in tribal militia to ``liberate`` Jammu & Kashmir. If much of Jammu & Kashmir ended up outside Pakistan`s control, it is only because members of Pakistan tribal militia had stopped for ``rest and recreation`` in Baramulla, a few miles short of Srinagar. It is this delay that allowed India to land its troops in Srinagar.
Pakistan was just as wrong in the closing decades of the century to unleash the veterans of the Afghan war on Jammu & Kashmir. The Kargil misadventure was brinkmanship at its worst. The Generals were playing with fire when they assumed it was quite all right to use violence to alter the ceasefire line between two nuclear weapon states. War is just not a rational option for either Islamabad or New Delhi.
Here are a few writeups from Pakistan that give a candid picture of how Pakistan got initiated in the business of liberating Kashmir. Needless to say it had nothing to do with the liberation of Kashmiris - it was all about real estate and self indulgence.
Excerpt from Article in DAWN (07/27/99):
Kargil - before and after
By Zafar Iqbal
``MILITARILY, the critical point which was supposed to have created the Kashmir problem was the hiatus in the tribesman`s march towards Srinagar when they stopped for
a bit of ``rest and recreation`` (R&R) at Baramulla about a dozen miles from Srinagar airport. Their concept of recreation included a diversion into some looting and pillage and possibly a bit of rape on the side.
Anyway, whatever the truth, this window of opportunity permitted the Indians to capture Srinagar airport and bring in reinforcements; at least so the story is told. The ultimate result was the cease-fire line.``
DAWN, Karachi, Pakistan
10 April, 2000
Kashmir: time to change tack
By Brig (retd) M. Sher Khan
``The story of Kashmir is a long saga, which started at the very inception of the new-born nation of Pakistan. While the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir was wavering about deciding which of the two new dominions his largely Muslim state should accede to, large tribal lashkars from the NWFP region invaded the state with the aim of forcing the Maharaja`s hand in acceding to Pakistan. When these lashkars were in a position to seize Srinagar and its airport, the lust for spoils, loot and pillage got the better of them. The Maharaja panicked and sought Indian intercession, the price of which was that he should first sign an instrument of accession.``
Excerpt from Article in Pakistan Link (1/28/2000):
Men and Events That Mattered in Pakistan
By Mohammad Ashraf Chaudhry
``The Kashmir problem which brought Pakistan to the three most costly wars it fought with India with the fourth looming on the horizon, might have been solved had Liaquat Ali Khan, the then PM, accepted Sardar Patel`s proposal to exchange Hyderabad with the Valley. As Sardar Shaukat Hayat puts it, Liaquat Ali Khan brushed aside the proposal by saying, ``Sardar Sahib, do you take me for a fool to accept a few hills in exchange for the vast plains of Deccan?`` India usurped Hyderabad anyway and forcefully occupied Kashmir too, leaving Pakistanis ruminating as to who was right, Liaquat Ali Khan or the Sardar of Wah who insisted on accepting it.
If this sounds somewhat dramatic, here is another event that let Kashmir slip away from Pakistan`s lap. In 1948 the, Tribal ``Mujahidins``, brought by Major Khurshid, had reached Srinagar which lay deserted. As they put their hands on the National Bank and came by some 3 lac rupees, it so happened that while the Major insisted on taking away that money as it belonged to the government of Pakistan, the ``Mujahidins`` on the contrary persisted in their demand to celebrate Eid-ul-Azha along with it, and in this tug of war they lost three most precious days. This lull and halt provided India enough time to rush its deployments to the area and what happened next to the rest of the story as far as Kashmir is concerned is well known to all.``
Now, as for HisExcellency`s gripes about Israel, they are completely unwarranted and stem from the prejudices of the Islamic world against the Jews that dates back to the time of Muhammed himself.
It would be wise of HisExcellency to walk a little in the other party`s mocasins before mouthing his hatred for the Jews.
Cooler tempers might prevail if HisExcellency mulls over what he would have done in 1948 if he were a holocaust survivor. Wouldn`t he have done everything in his power to defeat the Arab armies that invaded Israel?
More importantly, HisExcellency might want to mull over the fact that Palestine was a two-way street at that moment in history. Yes, many a Palestinian ( 0.5 million?) fled his ancestral home in the wake of Palestine`s partition. But at least an equal number of Jews got thrown out from Arab countries (from Morocco to Iraq) and even from Iran.
Today, the majority of Jews in Israel are Shephardic Jews most of whom have either lived in Palestine for centuries or are from Arab lands.
In fact, the downfall of the Labor Party in Israel and the rise of the hard line Likud is specifically related to this demographic mix - the better educated Ashkenazic Jews (of Yiddish heritage) yielding to the numerically dominant Shephardic Jews.
Needless to say, these Shephardic Jews have no reason to feel that they owe anything to the Palestinians who had lost their ancestral home. More importantly, the Shephardic Jews have genuine cause to resent the Arab countries that threw them out of their ancestral home in the aftermath of Palestine`s partition.
If HisExcellency mulls over the facts, I am sure he`ll see how illogical and unreasonable it was for him to denounce Israel who have been far more sinned against than sinning.
More importantly, HisExcellency will realize how unreasonable are those that will not settle for peace for anything less than the Palestinians` right to return to their ancestral land.
*****
Of the 50+ Muslim countries today, how many states are occupying another peoples` lands?
*****
HisExcellency might want to research how those 50+countries became Muslim in the first place. Was it by turning the other cheek?!!! Is it any wonder that none of the two dozen Arab states are willing to resettle the Palestinians in their midst even as they have got rid of at least as many Jews from their lands? Neither Pan-Arabism nor Ummah have allowed Palestinians to settle down and live in dignity in any of the two dozen Arab states between Morocco on the Atlantic Ocean and Iraq on the Persian Gulf.
Come to think of it, the half million Hindu Sindhis who were driven into exile at India`s partition have a far stronger cause for grievance than the half million Palestinians who went into exile at Palestine`s partition. The Palestinians can easily choose to be be at home in any of the 2 dozen Arab countries who speak the same language as them. Such is not the case with the Hindu Sindhis who were forced into the Diaspora in 1947 and who must live in lands where the Sindhi language can at best try to survive unobtrusively in a non-Sindhi land.
*****
Most Muslim states today are inner-directed, trying to harmonize modernity with religion internally.
*****
HisExcellency is being disingenous. The Ummah didn`t just turn into the fountainhead of global terrorism by ``trying to harmonize modernity with religion internally.`` Belief in God-sanctioned jihad between Dar-ul-harb and Dar-ul-Islam isn`t the symptom of an ``inner-directed`` society ``trying to harmonize modernity with religion internally.``
#82 Posted by nakhok on September 24, 2004 5:54:54 pm
#60 HisExcellency
*****
Of the 50+ Muslim countries today, how many states are occupying another peoples` lands?
*****
What about the Kurds? Who is is occupying their land? Are countries like Iraq, Turkey and Iran outside the pale of the Ummah?
And what about the Blacks in Southern Sudan? Who are perpetrating rapes and genocide upon them? Are the villains from outside the Ummah?
And why are there practically no Jews left in Arab lands?
Why is today`s Pakistan 97% Muslim even though a quarter of the population was non-Muslim at the time of the 1947 partition?
When Pakistan tried to snuff out the freedom fighters of Bangladesh through mass rape and genocide, it was the forces of ``Hindu`` India that brought independence to Bangladesh, the second most populous Muslim nation of the world.
The forces of ``Hindu`` India were led by Field Marshal Manekshaw, the Zoroastrian, General Jagjit Singh, the Sikh, and General Jacob, the Jew. The army led by these three infidel commanders mercifully brought to an end the genocide that had already claimed 3 million lives and had sent tens of millions of Bengalis seeking refuge across the border.
When Iraq occupied Kuwait, it was once again the forces from Dar-ul-Harb that regained independence for Kuwait.
Much of today`s terrorism stems from Pakistan`s attempt to secure ``strategic depth`` in Afghanistan. But once again the infidels rose to the occasion. Americans have been able to foce the Taleban to be on the run.
The world will be a lot more peaceful if these 50+ states can ever manage to purge themselves of the philosophy that enjoins Dar-ul-Islam to wage jihad on Dar-ul-Harb perpetually.
*****
Of the 50+ Muslim countries today, how many states are occupying another peoples` lands?
*****
What about the Kurds? Who is is occupying their land? Are countries like Iraq, Turkey and Iran outside the pale of the Ummah?
And what about the Blacks in Southern Sudan? Who are perpetrating rapes and genocide upon them? Are the villains from outside the Ummah?
And why are there practically no Jews left in Arab lands?
Why is today`s Pakistan 97% Muslim even though a quarter of the population was non-Muslim at the time of the 1947 partition?
When Pakistan tried to snuff out the freedom fighters of Bangladesh through mass rape and genocide, it was the forces of ``Hindu`` India that brought independence to Bangladesh, the second most populous Muslim nation of the world.
The forces of ``Hindu`` India were led by Field Marshal Manekshaw, the Zoroastrian, General Jagjit Singh, the Sikh, and General Jacob, the Jew. The army led by these three infidel commanders mercifully brought to an end the genocide that had already claimed 3 million lives and had sent tens of millions of Bengalis seeking refuge across the border.
When Iraq occupied Kuwait, it was once again the forces from Dar-ul-Harb that regained independence for Kuwait.
Much of today`s terrorism stems from Pakistan`s attempt to secure ``strategic depth`` in Afghanistan. But once again the infidels rose to the occasion. Americans have been able to foce the Taleban to be on the run.
The world will be a lot more peaceful if these 50+ states can ever manage to purge themselves of the philosophy that enjoins Dar-ul-Islam to wage jihad on Dar-ul-Harb perpetually.
#81 Posted by ssdhillon on September 24, 2004 3:36:30 pm
Mushy is acting like a ``Madaari`` trying to attract maximum attention.
****************************************************************
I was really surprised by Mushy`s comment about Pakistanis speaking better English than Indians. Even if he was joking...it sounds very petty.
His comment about building the tallest building is so typical of dictators. They are completely out of touch with reality.
****************************************************************
I was really surprised by Mushy`s comment about Pakistanis speaking better English than Indians. Even if he was joking...it sounds very petty.
His comment about building the tallest building is so typical of dictators. They are completely out of touch with reality.
#80 Posted by arjun_m on September 24, 2004 1:37:11 pm
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#79 Posted by rsridhar on September 24, 2004 12:21:25 pm
re: #77 by arjun_m
You are right about the IT.
Thomas Friedman wondered in one of his articles (that he wrote from Bangalore) why Pakis could not emulate the IT success of Indians, given the fact that both are the product of same (or similar)cultures .
While Paki elite may speak a better English (since most send their children to Universities in UK, USA at personal expenses), the numbers are small. These elite are not willing to sit in a shop for 12 hours at a stretch and work their butts off to earn foreign exchange. Middle class youth in Indians are very gung-ho about this. Therein lies the difference.
So, Mushy was only venting his frustration when he said Pakis speak a better English.
Sridhar
You are right about the IT.
Thomas Friedman wondered in one of his articles (that he wrote from Bangalore) why Pakis could not emulate the IT success of Indians, given the fact that both are the product of same (or similar)cultures .
While Paki elite may speak a better English (since most send their children to Universities in UK, USA at personal expenses), the numbers are small. These elite are not willing to sit in a shop for 12 hours at a stretch and work their butts off to earn foreign exchange. Middle class youth in Indians are very gung-ho about this. Therein lies the difference.
So, Mushy was only venting his frustration when he said Pakis speak a better English.
Sridhar
#78 Posted by M.B.Z.Isphahani on September 24, 2004 10:31:42 am
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#77 Posted by arjun_m on September 24, 2004 10:09:44 am
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#76 Posted by Jibbe on September 24, 2004 6:52:16 am
firstly this `article` cannot really constitue as a piece of writing - its quite amatuer and belongs in ilog.
However, I support the pro-Musharraf stance. But, to the writer - next time try to write your own piece instead of copying and pasting and adding a two line comment with italics.
Good luck!
However, I support the pro-Musharraf stance. But, to the writer - next time try to write your own piece instead of copying and pasting and adding a two line comment with italics.
Good luck!
#75 Posted by harimau on September 24, 2004 6:52:16 am
Ref HisStupidity #60
[Why single out Islam alone? Naipaul`s [crazy] formula should also be applied to India and Israel. After all, the only 2 states that expanded their borders through military invasion during the last 60 years are Hindu-majority and Jewish-majority states. The former invaded Kashmir in 1948, the latter occupied Palestinian territories in 1967.]
No matter how much you want to re-write history, the fact is that Kashmir was invaded by Pakistan and was rescued by India.
[Of the 50+ Muslim countries today, how many states are occupying another peoples` lands?]
Every single one of them. Do you see any indigenous religions still left in any of those Islamic countries?
[Most Muslim states today are inner-directed, trying to harmonize modernity with religion internally.]
The only modernity that Islam has attempted to harmonize with Islam is the use of the loudspeaker to issue the call for prayers. The sooner this madness is banned, the better the people can sleep.
[Why single out Islam alone? Naipaul`s [crazy] formula should also be applied to India and Israel. After all, the only 2 states that expanded their borders through military invasion during the last 60 years are Hindu-majority and Jewish-majority states. The former invaded Kashmir in 1948, the latter occupied Palestinian territories in 1967.]
No matter how much you want to re-write history, the fact is that Kashmir was invaded by Pakistan and was rescued by India.
[Of the 50+ Muslim countries today, how many states are occupying another peoples` lands?]
Every single one of them. Do you see any indigenous religions still left in any of those Islamic countries?
[Most Muslim states today are inner-directed, trying to harmonize modernity with religion internally.]
The only modernity that Islam has attempted to harmonize with Islam is the use of the loudspeaker to issue the call for prayers. The sooner this madness is banned, the better the people can sleep.
#74 Posted by rsridhar on September 24, 2004 6:52:16 am
re:#59 by arjun_m
You might have noticed how different Mushy`s approach is from Manmohan Singh`s during the recent visit to USA. While Manmohan Singh is busy meeting businessmen, talking to NYSE and do what a renouned Economist is supposed to do, Mushy is acting like a ``Madaari`` trying to attract maximum attention.
Also of note is the fact how Pakis look up to Mushy to deliver the goods and do not question his ``usurping power`` for so long. Hence, no demos by Pakis when he visited USA.
Also, note how the attempt at achieving that elusive parity continues. It would be a time for great mirth if it were not so tragic for Pakis. This attempt at parity with India has cost Pakistan a great deal. Today, Pak has literally become a satellite state of USA, with Mushy as USA`s best ally. If Pakis feel good about this, i have nothing to say.
``Musharraf also promised to build the world`s tallest building in Pakistan...``
Yes, indeed. Dictators can do what they want. So, why not the tallest building, even if it were to be just a showpiece with nobody occupying it.
Sridhar
You might have noticed how different Mushy`s approach is from Manmohan Singh`s during the recent visit to USA. While Manmohan Singh is busy meeting businessmen, talking to NYSE and do what a renouned Economist is supposed to do, Mushy is acting like a ``Madaari`` trying to attract maximum attention.
Also of note is the fact how Pakis look up to Mushy to deliver the goods and do not question his ``usurping power`` for so long. Hence, no demos by Pakis when he visited USA.
Also, note how the attempt at achieving that elusive parity continues. It would be a time for great mirth if it were not so tragic for Pakis. This attempt at parity with India has cost Pakistan a great deal. Today, Pak has literally become a satellite state of USA, with Mushy as USA`s best ally. If Pakis feel good about this, i have nothing to say.
``Musharraf also promised to build the world`s tallest building in Pakistan...``
Yes, indeed. Dictators can do what they want. So, why not the tallest building, even if it were to be just a showpiece with nobody occupying it.
Sridhar
#73 Posted by rsridhar on September 24, 2004 6:52:15 am
re:#57 by M.B.Z.Isphahani
``For me Manmohan Singh has no credibility...``
Nobody cares a rat`s A$$ whether u think Manmohan Singh has creditility or not. What matters is how the US business and the governments the world over percieve him. His credibility is high among the investors and the business community. They know he was the one who turned India`s economy around in the early 90s.
Sridhar
``For me Manmohan Singh has no credibility...``
Nobody cares a rat`s A$$ whether u think Manmohan Singh has creditility or not. What matters is how the US business and the governments the world over percieve him. His credibility is high among the investors and the business community. They know he was the one who turned India`s economy around in the early 90s.
Sridhar
#72 Posted by tahmed32 on September 23, 2004 9:30:53 pm
niki: i am not going to waste time arguing with you. but rest assured - i am well aware of the truth of BOTH india and pakistan. and by now i am well aware of the low-class values in which people like you are raised (even in the US, in your case). enough said.
#71 Posted by nikki7777 on September 23, 2004 5:20:35 pm
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#70 Posted by tahmed32 on September 23, 2004 4:19:51 pm
inquirer #67 So great minds, as always, think alike. ;-)
as for the hare-dog analogy, actually it is from the phrase ``to hunt with the hounds and run with the hare`` (this phrase is of course from the fox hunting ``sport``). in other words to be on both sides of the fence. thus, musharaff has certainly joined the US (and the civilized world, i may add) in fighting terrorists, he has also bent over backwards to give them political power in pakistan that the were never able to achieve through fair elections. I dont know why he does this and hope he realizes how important it is for Pakistan to continue on the democratic path and to allow the mainstream parties (PPP and Muslim League) to flourish.
as for the hare-dog analogy, actually it is from the phrase ``to hunt with the hounds and run with the hare`` (this phrase is of course from the fox hunting ``sport``). in other words to be on both sides of the fence. thus, musharaff has certainly joined the US (and the civilized world, i may add) in fighting terrorists, he has also bent over backwards to give them political power in pakistan that the were never able to achieve through fair elections. I dont know why he does this and hope he realizes how important it is for Pakistan to continue on the democratic path and to allow the mainstream parties (PPP and Muslim League) to flourish.
#69 Posted by tahmed32 on September 23, 2004 4:19:51 pm
nikki: get a life you idiot. stop sighing over pakistan continuing to survive despite your petty bad wishes - there are enough of your kind on chowk already.
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