“Final” solution?
Shujaat Wasty October 5, 2004
#152 Posted by gujju1 on October 10, 2004 2:36:04 pm
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#151 Posted by Urstruly on October 9, 2004 9:45:19 am
HP #134
That`s OK. There are holocaust deniers as well. Right on this very board there are Hindus who cannot comprehend that even a shred of wrong was done in Gujrat. However, if you want to get into the spirit of debate than look at HEs and mine interact. We are talking about different time frames and circumstances.
#150 Posted by khamkhwa. on October 9, 2004 8:18:51 am
arjun# 145
[What I find irksome is you thinking anyone gives a pakis rear about what you think....]
arjun,
...abay that`s a sound observation and applies to you as well...;)
[What I find irksome is you thinking anyone gives a pakis rear about what you think....]
arjun,
...abay that`s a sound observation and applies to you as well...;)
#149 Posted by khamkhwa. on October 9, 2004 8:18:51 am
ballukhan...
... puttra! your goose is cooked irrespective of how ``loyal`` you act...hehehehe...;)
... puttra! your goose is cooked irrespective of how ``loyal`` you act...hehehehe...;)
#148 Posted by rajsinghi1 on October 9, 2004 7:36:32 am
Farzana Versey
Please ignore my post#141 addressed to you. Apparently, my mind was elsewhere, when I wrote that. :)
Please ignore my post#141 addressed to you. Apparently, my mind was elsewhere, when I wrote that. :)
#147 Posted by rajsinghi1 on October 9, 2004 7:36:32 am
Some excerpts ..
That “the nature of the regime determines the nature of the outcome” is a well-known adage in public administration and public policy studies. The nature of a regime is not only influenced by its constitution, guiding philosophy, and the consequent system of government, but also by the structure of the system. We know from experience, both in the corporate world and in public administration, that monolithic and centralized structures fail when the size and scope of the organization grows. Thus to compete with Honda and Toyota , General Motors and Ford have had to restructure into smaller and independent operating units. In public administration this is called de-centralization. De-centralization not only implies the downward flow of decision-making but also greater closeness of the reviewing authority to the decision-making level.
Thus, if more decision-making flows to the districts and sub-districts, the state government, which is the reviewing authority, must also have fewer units to supervise. I have always held that the real concentration of power is not with the Central Government but with the State Governments. Thus when a person like Chandrababu Naidu clamors for greater functional autonomy, he is actually calling for a greater concentration of power to himself. From the perspective of good governance, this is clearly unacceptable. Good government also means lesser government, responsive government, closer government and quicker government. Large centralized governments are inimical to good government. State Governments are the worst kind of centralized governments masking their regional jingoism as a demand for autonomy.
In 1973 Rasheeduddin Khan wrote: “ the process of the infra-structuring of the Indian federation is not yet over. Therefore, political demands of viable sub-regions for new administrative arrangements are not necessarily antithetical to the territorial integrity of the country. For, every urge for autonomy is not a divisive, but most probably a complementary force; it would not lead to balkanization but to the restructuring of national identity; it is not a fissiparous but a normal centrifugal tendency in a federation; it should not be taken as a call for disintegration of the national sovereignty, but its re-integration.” The “Report of the States Reorganization Commission, 1955” states: “Unlike the United States of America , the Indian Union is not an indestructible union composed of indestructible states. But on the contrary the Union alone is indestructible but the individual states are not.” It would be unfortunate if demands for the restructuring of India by creating more states are seen only as mere political contests, where the just causes of individual socio-cultural and agro-climatic regions is just a weapon of in the hands of out of work politicians deprived of a share of the benefits of office.
That “the nature of the regime determines the nature of the outcome” is a well-known adage in public administration and public policy studies. The nature of a regime is not only influenced by its constitution, guiding philosophy, and the consequent system of government, but also by the structure of the system. We know from experience, both in the corporate world and in public administration, that monolithic and centralized structures fail when the size and scope of the organization grows. Thus to compete with Honda and Toyota , General Motors and Ford have had to restructure into smaller and independent operating units. In public administration this is called de-centralization. De-centralization not only implies the downward flow of decision-making but also greater closeness of the reviewing authority to the decision-making level.
Thus, if more decision-making flows to the districts and sub-districts, the state government, which is the reviewing authority, must also have fewer units to supervise. I have always held that the real concentration of power is not with the Central Government but with the State Governments. Thus when a person like Chandrababu Naidu clamors for greater functional autonomy, he is actually calling for a greater concentration of power to himself. From the perspective of good governance, this is clearly unacceptable. Good government also means lesser government, responsive government, closer government and quicker government. Large centralized governments are inimical to good government. State Governments are the worst kind of centralized governments masking their regional jingoism as a demand for autonomy.
In 1973 Rasheeduddin Khan wrote: “ the process of the infra-structuring of the Indian federation is not yet over. Therefore, political demands of viable sub-regions for new administrative arrangements are not necessarily antithetical to the territorial integrity of the country. For, every urge for autonomy is not a divisive, but most probably a complementary force; it would not lead to balkanization but to the restructuring of national identity; it is not a fissiparous but a normal centrifugal tendency in a federation; it should not be taken as a call for disintegration of the national sovereignty, but its re-integration.” The “Report of the States Reorganization Commission, 1955” states: “Unlike the United States of America , the Indian Union is not an indestructible union composed of indestructible states. But on the contrary the Union alone is indestructible but the individual states are not.” It would be unfortunate if demands for the restructuring of India by creating more states are seen only as mere political contests, where the just causes of individual socio-cultural and agro-climatic regions is just a weapon of in the hands of out of work politicians deprived of a share of the benefits of office.
#146 Posted by ballukhan on October 9, 2004 7:36:31 am
Do we recognize a communalist literature??
It is a fact that most of the time Indians fail to recognize racist and communalist assertions because of the universal acceptance of the communal stereotypes that are carefully cultivated by our culture.
So when the RSS fascist makes sweeping remarks about the Muslim collective beliefs and intentions it is on the same footing with the shrill about tolerating ``Hindus``. It is imperative that the muslim intelligensia in the country should refrain from re-inforcing those very stereotypes that RSS communalist wants us to believe because this rabble rousing deviates the focus of IMs from the main issues of economic , educational and political empowerment.
So do we need to counter RSS communalism with our own brand of communalism???
It is a fact that most of the time Indians fail to recognize racist and communalist assertions because of the universal acceptance of the communal stereotypes that are carefully cultivated by our culture.
So when the RSS fascist makes sweeping remarks about the Muslim collective beliefs and intentions it is on the same footing with the shrill about tolerating ``Hindus``. It is imperative that the muslim intelligensia in the country should refrain from re-inforcing those very stereotypes that RSS communalist wants us to believe because this rabble rousing deviates the focus of IMs from the main issues of economic , educational and political empowerment.
So do we need to counter RSS communalism with our own brand of communalism???
#145 Posted by arjun_m on October 9, 2004 7:36:30 am
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#144 Posted by Simran on October 8, 2004 7:43:20 pm
#102 by Stuka
At times I find it very amusing that my criticisms of India have led to my being labelled ``Khalistani`` or ``Pakistani; at others I find it annoying; If only compartmentalizing things into black or white could be a panacea for the world`s ills.
``It is the very same democracy you hold in contempt that has led to a form of stability and progress in India. ``
I wish you wouldn`t put words into my mouth stuka. Did I mention anything about the economic condition in India? India has probably ``progressed``. What I find irksome is its being very fervently labelled time and again as ``a great democaracy``. The ban on the final solution in India just confirms this view of mine. I think it is legitimate to challenge the democracy of India. Why cannot people like Rakesh Sharma be allowed to express their opinion freely? why don`t the widows of 1984 and of Gujrat who await justice have their voices ever heard? In my opinion, a democracy should be more conducive of the voices of the dispossed. Empathise. Put yourself in the shoes of these people and ask yourself if they have the same optimism of Indian democracy and justice as you do. And in doing so, could you not constantly compare India to Pakistan as many people interacting here are very eager to. As if by doing that, the ills of India become somewhat smaller in comparison.
Yes, India has ``stabilized`` and ``progressed`` to some degree, but at what cost? I understand the point you make about the Cultural Revolution in China. Maybe progress does come at some cost. However, I am no supporter of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution in China. Why the need to constantly compare? Does that make things in India more legitimate and justifiable? China implemented the one child policy. Would you recommend the forceful implementation of the same in India? China has ``progressed`` economically (in the cities), but its Human Rights record is very bleak. Comparison might not be such a great indicator of ``progress`` after all.
I think that the growing popularity of the RSS and similar fascist groups is a cause for alarm indeed. ``Progress`` of India not withstanding. I reiterate my opinion that the ban should be lifted on this documetary and that the voices of the dispossed need to be brought to light and heard.
As for ``stability`` in India, I am critical of that too, what with the trouble in the Northeast and communal flare ups ever so often. From a purely economic prespective however, you could probably make a point of India`s stabilization.
I appreciate your post but I still continue to hold my opinion ``challenging`` the ``democracy`` of India. Human rights violations should not be ignored, not in India, not the world over.
Simran
At times I find it very amusing that my criticisms of India have led to my being labelled ``Khalistani`` or ``Pakistani; at others I find it annoying; If only compartmentalizing things into black or white could be a panacea for the world`s ills.
``It is the very same democracy you hold in contempt that has led to a form of stability and progress in India. ``
I wish you wouldn`t put words into my mouth stuka. Did I mention anything about the economic condition in India? India has probably ``progressed``. What I find irksome is its being very fervently labelled time and again as ``a great democaracy``. The ban on the final solution in India just confirms this view of mine. I think it is legitimate to challenge the democracy of India. Why cannot people like Rakesh Sharma be allowed to express their opinion freely? why don`t the widows of 1984 and of Gujrat who await justice have their voices ever heard? In my opinion, a democracy should be more conducive of the voices of the dispossed. Empathise. Put yourself in the shoes of these people and ask yourself if they have the same optimism of Indian democracy and justice as you do. And in doing so, could you not constantly compare India to Pakistan as many people interacting here are very eager to. As if by doing that, the ills of India become somewhat smaller in comparison.
Yes, India has ``stabilized`` and ``progressed`` to some degree, but at what cost? I understand the point you make about the Cultural Revolution in China. Maybe progress does come at some cost. However, I am no supporter of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution in China. Why the need to constantly compare? Does that make things in India more legitimate and justifiable? China implemented the one child policy. Would you recommend the forceful implementation of the same in India? China has ``progressed`` economically (in the cities), but its Human Rights record is very bleak. Comparison might not be such a great indicator of ``progress`` after all.
I think that the growing popularity of the RSS and similar fascist groups is a cause for alarm indeed. ``Progress`` of India not withstanding. I reiterate my opinion that the ban should be lifted on this documetary and that the voices of the dispossed need to be brought to light and heard.
As for ``stability`` in India, I am critical of that too, what with the trouble in the Northeast and communal flare ups ever so often. From a purely economic prespective however, you could probably make a point of India`s stabilization.
I appreciate your post but I still continue to hold my opinion ``challenging`` the ``democracy`` of India. Human rights violations should not be ignored, not in India, not the world over.
Simran
#143 Posted by hindvi on October 8, 2004 5:09:08 pm
cant wait to hunt them down eh? dont worry we all now live in pakistan.
#142 Posted by hindvi on October 8, 2004 5:09:08 pm
#127 gujju1
Hindvi ,
Thats their punishment for being anti-India. Do you have family in India ?``
and i am supposed to tell you so that you can met out the same punishment to them?
#137 by gujju1 on October 8, 2004 2:52pm PT
Hindvi ,
so you admit you and your folks are anti-India.
**********************************************************************
Judgement delivered we are now in the mood for some mutilation and abortions eh?
Hindvi ,
Thats their punishment for being anti-India. Do you have family in India ?``
and i am supposed to tell you so that you can met out the same punishment to them?
#137 by gujju1 on October 8, 2004 2:52pm PT
Hindvi ,
so you admit you and your folks are anti-India.
**********************************************************************
Judgement delivered we are now in the mood for some mutilation and abortions eh?
#141 Posted by rajsinghi1 on October 8, 2004 2:52:56 pm
Farzana Versey
Post#135
I have not really understood that post. Not sure how it answers the question/s I raised earlier in my post.
Anyway, thing that I am glad about is that you have responded. Really. For, I was having some different thoughts and have been toying with the idea as to shall I write (questioning, as well) now (post/s on not getting reply from you on this, and perhaps some more:) ), or let it be ....
Chances are/were that for a while, I would have waited more...after that, I do not know if I would have even remembered about raising the topic....:)
Post#135
I have not really understood that post. Not sure how it answers the question/s I raised earlier in my post.
Anyway, thing that I am glad about is that you have responded. Really. For, I was having some different thoughts and have been toying with the idea as to shall I write (questioning, as well) now (post/s on not getting reply from you on this, and perhaps some more:) ), or let it be ....
Chances are/were that for a while, I would have waited more...after that, I do not know if I would have even remembered about raising the topic....:)
#140 Posted by rajsinghi1 on October 8, 2004 2:52:56 pm
Farzana Versey
Quote:
`` In case you have not yet read the news, `Final Solution` has been passed by the Indian Censor Board finally without any cuts. ``
Sorry, I have absolutely no idea as to what is meant by the above.
I came to this board on reading HP`s recommendation/his post which was on your article/board. That is all. Other than that, have no idea. Just responded to few posts, here.
Quote:
`` In case you have not yet read the news, `Final Solution` has been passed by the Indian Censor Board finally without any cuts. ``
Sorry, I have absolutely no idea as to what is meant by the above.
I came to this board on reading HP`s recommendation/his post which was on your article/board. That is all. Other than that, have no idea. Just responded to few posts, here.
#139 Posted by gujju1 on October 8, 2004 2:52:55 pm
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#138 Posted by mannyd on October 8, 2004 2:52:55 pm
The following is a link to RSS video mentioned by someone here.
http://www.dailyherald.com/special/passagefromindia/video/rss3-1.mov
I do not understand the language they are using. Can someone translate their song please unless it is a duplication of the hate literature mentioned above?
Ballu Khan: Excellent posts. Do not let anyone silence you.
http://www.dailyherald.com/special/passagefromindia/video/rss3-1.mov
I do not understand the language they are using. Can someone translate their song please unless it is a duplication of the hate literature mentioned above?
Ballu Khan: Excellent posts. Do not let anyone silence you.
#137 Posted by BruceLee on October 8, 2004 2:52:55 pm
i feel like taking a bath after reading this article because I feel soiled. BUT! The author should stick to one field and not try and be clever...you can ruin your credibility by coming out with cr@p like the 9/11 was commited by Mossad. get a grip of yourself!
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