“Final” solution?

Ref wahi_to #57

[gandiv (#9):

problem with kachawadis like yourself is that you dont want to see. you want freaking research/citations to confirm the atrocites in Gujarat. you choose to be ignorant when hindus are killing muslims but would cry a thousand tears if few kar sewaks are given their due treatment.]

So, ``due treatment`` given to Hindus should not be given to Muslims!

So, I suppose that the only crime the Gujaratis committed was using fire. Throwing acid, beating with rods, rape, mayhem and killing are okay as ``due treatment`` for Muslims?

Ref Inji-kari-kuzhambu #64

[I too believe that Modi is a symptom of a deeper problem. Middle-class gujarati hindus, like ordinary germans of another era, have become fascistic. It`s not a problem that can be fixed by changing leaders.]

How about the Tamil Arasans, Tamil Manis and Love Kings painting slogans such as ``If you see a brahmin and a snake, kill the brahmin first`` on bridge railings and abutments? Would this be fascistic or just an expression of pure love toward snakes?

hindvi:
I was not referring to the Abu Gharib but the large-scale bombing and killing of the innocent people taking place all over Iraq; thank god the Indians have not resorted to that kind of massacres in Kashmir. Apna khoon phir apna hai!

stuka:
I was referring to the role of the govt. in Bangladesh, not of any political party. And yes, I agree that Morarji Desai was right about India doing a favour to Pakistan by amputating the eastern wing. Why did you think that he got Sitara-e-Imtiaz from Pakistan? :-)

Ref jang #38

[I must stay that I have had Tea in Godhra before, and it was was memorably awful.]

How about samosas? Were they equally bad? Would the bad tea and samosa be sufficient grounds not to pay The Muslim Tea Vendor Not Paid for Tea and Samosas who so prominently figured in all the write-ups about Godhra?

[This is saying a lot considering I had tea in other god-forsaken railway stations like Jhansi, Urai, Kanpur, Sahranpur, Bhusawal, Egmore, New Jalpaiguri and so on.. ]

Where the HELL is Urai? That and places like Bhusawal (I know where it is; I have been on a Calcutta-Mumbai train via Allahabad; Hell on wheels if ever there is one) would certainly qualify for the adjective ``god-forsaken`` but Egmore? Come on! The place has probably more Ganesh statues than you can shake a stick at!

re:#30 by Gandiv
By enlightened i mean: the government is responsive to the needs of the people and is accountable. There is accountability in every aspect of life in USA. People and the media are very alert as to what their leaders are upto. This does not mean everything is hunky dory but half the battle is won when the people are alert.
In India, despite so much poverty, we see leaders amassing wealth. They do not seem to realize that the poor people who elect them want to see them work for their upliftment. I am amazed at the kind of corruption that exists in India. All because of lack of accountability.
Sridhar

re:#29 by Urstruly
It was democrazy that prevented the Gujarat carnage from spreading to whole of India. It was democrazy that threw out the BJP government and elected a more secular govt at center.
Sridhar

Jang,

You said:
``problem with kachawadis like yourself is that you dont want to see. you want freaking research/citations to confirm the atrocites in Gujarat. you choose to be ignorant when hindus are killing muslims but would cry a thousand tears if few kar sewaks are given their due treatment. ``

Well, call me whatever if that really charms you.
A ``freaking`` research/citation definitely weighs in more than mullah-spouted hate speech calling for jehad. The later might be just another form of prayer for you.

You seem to be a Pakistani. If so, which flavour of secularism do you practice in your country and what`s your own track record about secularism?

BTW, you seem to be really knocked off.
Cool down, it would take a while but there would justice, as it`s India, unlike the land of pure where donating on the name of murderers is considered highly religious and upright.

At least minorities can stand up and resort to courts in India and there`s a hope for justice. What you`ve done in Kashmir is total ethnic cleansing of Hindus off the valley.

In Marad (Kerala), muslim mob butchered several Hindus for reasons unknown and who gives a hoot? Incidents like these are common place and convenient to ignore when those killed are Hindus.

Muslims used a mosque to stockpile weapon-cache and our secular media would use the word ``miscreants`` to describe the gruesome murderes as if they were innocent youth experimenting a harmless childish adventure.

If the victims were Muslims , the secular media would use ``Hindu commmunalist murderers ``.

*********************************************************
The massacre at Marad brings the frontline of terror closer to our
doorstep.

It was the 2 nd of May , sundown under a crescent moon at the Marad
beach. The Hindu fishermen, most of whom had just hauled their daily
catch and were resting on the beach, never knew what hit them. Three
teams of about a hundred armed men climbed out of their fiberglass
boats on to the shore. Another batch eased out of a house near the
Marad Juma Masjid. Armed with swords and machets, clutching Coke cans
filled with gelatin, they rushed in from all directions.Within
minutes, the hit team melted away leaving behind the dead and the
living dead. The dead -Chandran, Dasan, Gopalan, Krishnan , Madhavan,
Prajeesh, Pushparaj, Santhosh,…hacked to death in a
choreographed storm of flashing swords and machets. Thirteen others,
some of them women, had to fight for their lives at the Kozhikode
medical college. Some had their private organs torn out. You can find
them, a Chandran, a Dasan, in every town or village in Kerala. Among
them , Pushparaj received special treatment from the murderers. After
bringing him down with swords, the assailants who had left him for
dead came back to lift boulders which they dropped over his writhing
body. Pushparaj died on the spot, his internal organs bursting in the
impact.

In the subsequent police firing on a crowd of Hindus, 13 were injured,
one of them seriously. Today,twenty-five Hindus are in preventive
police custody.

Later ,the Kerala police recovered the bloodstained swords, some of
them with pieces of hair sticking to them, from the nearby mosque
along with 17 unexploded bombs. The AK Antony government took over the
Mosque under the Section 27 of the Kerala Police act.

Kozhikode city Police Commissioner T K Vinod Kumar told mediapersons,
“it was a pre-planned and sudden attack”. There were no
incidents in that area which may have acted as a provocation, and
there was not even a petition submitted to a police station in that
area.



The Secular response : Marxist leader of the Opposition
Com: Achuthanandan cited the building of an Ayyappa temple at the
Idukki reservoir as the reason for the attack.

Long live secularism.

``Most of the popular actors happen to be Muslim (at least by name)``

What an idiot.

While the movie might have been commendable this review certainly is not.

#39 by Urstruly

+++
what has happened in Karachi and sindh has happened for almost 10 years and rendered 30,000+ Muslims dead and property damage is estimated to be in billions of rupees
+++

Janab, what are you saying! This 30,000 is a gross exaggeration. Even during the peak year of violence (i.e. 1995), the number of deaths as reported by Edhi Ambulance Service were 1,850. This was the most violent year in Karachi. Even if we assume (for argument`s sake) that this death toll continued for 10 years, the total comes to 18,500.

I would be surprised if the actual number exceeds 6,000 over the last 10 years. And this would include all people killed in dacoities, innocent bystanders, policemen killed by MQM, workers killed in MQM-A versus MQM-Haqiqi standoff... and MQM workers killed by police. Of course, 6000 deaths are no laughing matter. But not all of these people were model citizens. Not all of them were civilians. Not all of them were even MQM people because many of these were policemen and Rangers. If you have any statistics that can shed more light on Karachi violence, please share the source with us.

What do you say about the MQM`s torture cells and Khajji Ground? What about the assassination of Azeem Tariq, Maulana Salahuddin, Hakeem Saeed and dozens of judges and traders who refused to give bhatta? The MQM started haunting mohajirs themselves and that is why the operation against it cannot be termed a ``genocide`` or state-oppression. The Pakistani government was prepared to negotiate with MQM and even include it in power structure. But it was not prepared to let MQM set up a parallel law inside Karachi. No government can allow one party to kill innocents and then demand immunity for its henchmen.

-Regards

#37 stuka
I too believe that Modi is a symptom of a deeper problem. Middle-class gujarati hindus, like ordinary germans of another era, have become fascistic. It`s not a problem that can be fixed by changing leaders.

dost mittar
i am no fan of americans, and i can understand if you said american behaviour in vietnam, where in the late 60s early 70s they commited rapes, summary executions and even massacres like mylai but Iraq? just because of Abu Gharib? where no body was raped .or sodomised or electrocuted (simulations yes but never in reality) or killed extra judicialy. dost mittar dont buy urstruly and echobooms or your antiglobalisation beti`s ideologies.

also look at the swiftness with which the US has dealt with these small number of simulated tortures.

stuka

this caught my eye..
``If this involves lobbying the US for an invasion of Iindia if some freakazoid like you or Thackeray or Modi takes power, then God Willing I will do it. ``

well, modi is in power in Guj and Thakrey practically rules Mumbai (he never taked gaddi, but acts as a remote control.). god is willing..

Hindvi

there are times when i find newspapers funny. i mean most students wont be able to place delhi on indian map, name 4 of inidas neighbors, or know about 1857 rising, so ignorance is widely practiced in india. so news stories like this anecdotes is simplistic journalism.

Dost Mittar:

Are you kidding me? Tthe BNP and Jamaat e Islami have pretty much coordinated effort to screw the Hindus. As much as I hate the Modi types, I reserve the same for these ``grateful`` Bangladshis.

We should have done a deal with Pak over Kashmir in exchange for letting them keep East Pakistan. Desai was the only one with the foresight to see this.

kaurasach:
What is happening in bangladesh is to be condemned, but there is no evidence that it is sponsored by the state.
What the Pakistan army did in East Pakistan was also condemnable but of a different nature. The army was facing insurgency there and their abuses are similar to the ones being committed by the Indian security forces in Kashmir now and the even worst crimes being committed by the americans in Iraq.
No, there is no comparison to Gujarat!

Gandiv

I am interested in understanding the aftermath of the riots. I understand that there can be riots in response to Godhra incident. What I am trying to understand is the reasoning in how the people of Gujrat seem to have not blamed Modi govt, political parties in Guj have been quiet etc. Most of the port-riot help effort also seems to be from out of Gujrat. I know for a fact that Gujjus are a very giving community (e.g. the earthquake got large donations) but the riot victims were studiedly ignored. Enquiries to Gujju charitable orgs regarding where to send help for riot victims was replied with total silence, very unlike charitable organizations.

So any light you can shed on this is apreciated. (i.e. you can say that its untrue and give examples to the contrary, or say its true and give possible reasons, or just call me an armchair analyst. i have been called worst names like secular).

(The stuff about bullying gujjus is in jest, but based on my experience, I think of gujjus as more non-violent as compared to any other community.)

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