Employment Equity in India’s Private Sector
Dost Mittar October 24, 2004
#16 Posted by mohar11 on October 25, 2004 9:08:09 am
HP
//...Let’s put whatever our Indian friends claim about India’s economic progress aside,...//
Don`t listen to what your Indian frieds tell you. There ain`t no ``economic progress`` happening in the land of jack-a$$es. MothaF@kkas who have been r@ping their m@ther-country for last 57 years aren`t satisfied yet. They are old but they are still virile - they won`t let it go.
What the he!! were we thinking? That we can build an economy - bring back the glory days? No way man - we can`t do sh!t with old f@gs sitting on your head. The dream is over!!
//...Let’s put whatever our Indian friends claim about India’s economic progress aside,...//
Don`t listen to what your Indian frieds tell you. There ain`t no ``economic progress`` happening in the land of jack-a$$es. MothaF@kkas who have been r@ping their m@ther-country for last 57 years aren`t satisfied yet. They are old but they are still virile - they won`t let it go.
What the he!! were we thinking? That we can build an economy - bring back the glory days? No way man - we can`t do sh!t with old f@gs sitting on your head. The dream is over!!
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#15 Posted by mshergill on October 25, 2004 8:12:40 am
In todays day and age in the Corporate sector, I dont think that anyone practices a recruitment policy, both express and implied that excludes a particular community. If there is still a feeling after 57 years or so after independence, that people from backward classes are still exploited in India, then it is obvious that whatever we (The Government)have been doing is incorrect for the past 57 years.
The authors remedy is to extend the wrong doing to the areas which have been excluded so far. (Spread the pain !!!) I can still remember my anger to find my classmate in college, who was a ministers son, lived in the best part of Delhi, had the best school education, and had more money than what I could dream off. That year the cut off marks for admission were 79% in Sri Ram college but this dude got in with 64%, because he was a `backward class`. In what way was he a `backward ` class ??? I have heard of a harrowing story about a `backward ` class doctor making 8 unsuccesful attempts for a `lumber` punch. How would the author like to be in the receiving end of such a doctor.
The private sector is never on the basis of merit. So Dost Mitter is not writing anything new. Why should it be so otherwise ??? If by recruiting someone I get access to an additional 20 million dollars worth of business, my business sense would tell me to recruit him or her as long as he/ she is acceptable. However no one wants `free loaders`.
Perhaps Dost Mitter does not have much experience or interaction in Global Business, otherwise he would not be making unworkable meaningless suggestions. Global business is going to chew you and you will have to cut corners in expenses and everyone will have to justify their existence.
I read a lot of things in Chowk, as to how we (India) are such a great democracy etc etc, and how unlucky Pakistan has been with military dictators. However what have our politicians done during the last 57 years, screwed up Kashmir and the North East, set Punjab aflame for so many years, divided the country on the basis of religion, caste and community, fucked us all on the basis of self defeating socialistic policies which tried to `distribute ` poverty for years, and the numerous innocent people killed in Communal riots. The BJP government has its shame in the Gujrat riots and the Congress in the butchering of Sikhs in 1984. Now since there has not been any `drama` for the past 2-3 years the Congress wants to screw the country on the basis of reservations.
I would have anyday had a dictator in India who had the sense and wisdom to rise above these secatarian issues, someone like Kemal Ataturuk.
The only reason why the IT industry has done well is because of non interference by the government. Imagine a company like Infosys recruiting every 5th person from the backward classes, maybe someone with no skill sets just so that it compiles with government regulations.
If the government feels that there are certain vastly underdeveloped areas in India then spend money on them in terms of school, infrastructure etc, so that the people there can be developed to stand on their own feet and not with crutches. Do not let people feel that they are children of a lesser god.
The authors remedy is to extend the wrong doing to the areas which have been excluded so far. (Spread the pain !!!) I can still remember my anger to find my classmate in college, who was a ministers son, lived in the best part of Delhi, had the best school education, and had more money than what I could dream off. That year the cut off marks for admission were 79% in Sri Ram college but this dude got in with 64%, because he was a `backward class`. In what way was he a `backward ` class ??? I have heard of a harrowing story about a `backward ` class doctor making 8 unsuccesful attempts for a `lumber` punch. How would the author like to be in the receiving end of such a doctor.
The private sector is never on the basis of merit. So Dost Mitter is not writing anything new. Why should it be so otherwise ??? If by recruiting someone I get access to an additional 20 million dollars worth of business, my business sense would tell me to recruit him or her as long as he/ she is acceptable. However no one wants `free loaders`.
Perhaps Dost Mitter does not have much experience or interaction in Global Business, otherwise he would not be making unworkable meaningless suggestions. Global business is going to chew you and you will have to cut corners in expenses and everyone will have to justify their existence.
I read a lot of things in Chowk, as to how we (India) are such a great democracy etc etc, and how unlucky Pakistan has been with military dictators. However what have our politicians done during the last 57 years, screwed up Kashmir and the North East, set Punjab aflame for so many years, divided the country on the basis of religion, caste and community, fucked us all on the basis of self defeating socialistic policies which tried to `distribute ` poverty for years, and the numerous innocent people killed in Communal riots. The BJP government has its shame in the Gujrat riots and the Congress in the butchering of Sikhs in 1984. Now since there has not been any `drama` for the past 2-3 years the Congress wants to screw the country on the basis of reservations.
I would have anyday had a dictator in India who had the sense and wisdom to rise above these secatarian issues, someone like Kemal Ataturuk.
The only reason why the IT industry has done well is because of non interference by the government. Imagine a company like Infosys recruiting every 5th person from the backward classes, maybe someone with no skill sets just so that it compiles with government regulations.
If the government feels that there are certain vastly underdeveloped areas in India then spend money on them in terms of school, infrastructure etc, so that the people there can be developed to stand on their own feet and not with crutches. Do not let people feel that they are children of a lesser god.
#14 Posted by HP on October 25, 2004 7:41:41 am
#7 by sameerJB
Sameer,
I am not going to go into Indian job market and practices as I don’t have enough knowledge about it.
I think quotas and some affirmative action programs are fine. But making it a struggle between haves and have-nots is not fair. If you call it against have-nots then may be you are just following the stereotypes.
Let’s put whatever our Indian friends claim about India’s economic progress aside, the reality is that India is essentially an extremely poor country and the first attempt for every government should be to lift the economy by encouraging investors to first start a business and then encouraging it to hire the local talent. Any local or outside investor who is putting money in India should have the right to choose the people it would like to keep at its employee.
Granted that the Indian government has an obligation to help all its subjects but this is not the responsibility of the private Investors. The private investor is not depending on winning the popularity contest but it is investing some really scares money to make some profit. If you take the element of possible profit away from an investment that investment would walk away. Forcing the private business to comply with the government quota would amount to forcing the investors to expect less profit. The quality of employees is a factor in business profit.
DM may be right in the sense that businesses in India don’t have clearly defined employment policies and connections may help some candidates but essentially that’s still a business decision. By forcing the issue, it would be perceived as tying the business’s hands in defining its own employment policies..
The place where quotas and affirmative actions should be in place is the educational institutions. It is clear that people who get better jobs come from better schools. If the poor and economically disadvantaged are allowed the opportunity to get better education, they should thereafter be ready to compete for jobs on almost equal footing.
The place where the quota system might seem appropriate would be government jobs. In most of those jobs especially non tech jobs high qualifications are not required and it may be possible for the government to support the disadvantaged sections of the population. This would help them to catch up with the privileged sections of the society in the next couple of generations.
Sameer,
I am not going to go into Indian job market and practices as I don’t have enough knowledge about it.
I think quotas and some affirmative action programs are fine. But making it a struggle between haves and have-nots is not fair. If you call it against have-nots then may be you are just following the stereotypes.
Let’s put whatever our Indian friends claim about India’s economic progress aside, the reality is that India is essentially an extremely poor country and the first attempt for every government should be to lift the economy by encouraging investors to first start a business and then encouraging it to hire the local talent. Any local or outside investor who is putting money in India should have the right to choose the people it would like to keep at its employee.
Granted that the Indian government has an obligation to help all its subjects but this is not the responsibility of the private Investors. The private investor is not depending on winning the popularity contest but it is investing some really scares money to make some profit. If you take the element of possible profit away from an investment that investment would walk away. Forcing the private business to comply with the government quota would amount to forcing the investors to expect less profit. The quality of employees is a factor in business profit.
DM may be right in the sense that businesses in India don’t have clearly defined employment policies and connections may help some candidates but essentially that’s still a business decision. By forcing the issue, it would be perceived as tying the business’s hands in defining its own employment policies..
The place where quotas and affirmative actions should be in place is the educational institutions. It is clear that people who get better jobs come from better schools. If the poor and economically disadvantaged are allowed the opportunity to get better education, they should thereafter be ready to compete for jobs on almost equal footing.
The place where the quota system might seem appropriate would be government jobs. In most of those jobs especially non tech jobs high qualifications are not required and it may be possible for the government to support the disadvantaged sections of the population. This would help them to catch up with the privileged sections of the society in the next couple of generations.
#13 Posted by harimau on October 25, 2004 7:41:41 am
Dost-Mittarji,
Should the private companies also be required to provide a Haj subsidy to Muslim employees?
Should the private companies also be required to provide a Haj subsidy to Muslim employees?
#12 Posted by ballukhan on October 25, 2004 7:41:41 am
Another Conspiracy by the erstwhile Stalinists!!
I am amazed that although the West Bengali Stalinists have already been through these issues in the last 30 years of rule their frustrated Central Politbureau leaders like Yechuri and Surjeet have almost turned this issue into a Cabinet Decision.
These professional Stalinists have turned the process of subverting Indian Capitalism into another art form. Instead of acknowleding the grave fact that the past Governments (including their own in West Bengal) and the State apparatuses have failed to implement the numerous of Anti-Poverty and Upliftment Schemes and Programmes at the District and National levels they have now done their bit in subversion of the Indian Capitalism by taking this Cabinet decision. Whether we believe it or not this is in fact the last coup attempt by these Stalinists to gloss over the fact about the redundancy of giving more powers to the governmental to exercise controls over the Private Sector.
Let us not forget that these Stalinists are Centralist . So they always talks about real democracy in the Soviet State while disparaging the real American Democracy- In the same way he cites the aberrations in the Capitalism in order to push his narcisstic agenda of total control.
So here he talks about the extent of nepotism in the capitalistic system of recruitments. But can he answer the question of how many percent of recruitments in the private sectors are based considerations of nepotism? And especially when most of these recruitments are clearly geared towards either gaining some benefit for the Private Commercial Concern ( like recruiting ex-government officials or sons of powerful people) and hence may not be at all contrary to the overall goals and objectives any private commercial concern which is Commercial PROFITABILITY.
So what exactly is the game plan of these CPM Stalinists??
Simple- try to kill the Private Sector so that they can claim that the Indian Capitalism is moving towards the final breakdown that their metaphysical religion called Historical Materialism predicts.
However, viewing this as a repudiation of the thesis that the State is NOT the right organization to DELIVER the social goods in the existing bureaucratic enviroment, this would imply that we should first strengthen the hands of the Private NGO-s at the delivery of the existing Social Goods rathar than try to give the funds allocated for the schemes and programmes to the State apparatus per se.
There is a clear division of labour between the State and the Private Commercial Organizations. Where do you think the money to run all the benefit schemens come from?The private Sector clearly fulfils its obligations by paying Thousands of Crores of their hard earned money as Taxes to the government in order to enable the government to run the social programmes for the poor.
So this implies that the State should own up to its failure and not try to shift the burden of its responsibilities and social obligations onto the Private Commercial concerns whose goals and aims are clearly profitability and not social welfare.
This Cabinet Decision is just another attempt by the Stalinists and their bureaucratic friends in the exisiting coalition government to shirking from its responsibility and forcing the Private Sector to become slaves to this forced outsourcing of the social responsibility that actually belongs to the government and which it has badly done job since last 50 years.
We forget that so encompasing the force of this legislation would be that any subsequent government would demand the muslim and other minority organizations to recruit hindu OBC-s and SC/ST in their organizations!!!!
So instead of hanging these Stalinist and their bureaucratic dogs by the post we are letting them deliver their last suicidal act against the Indian Capitalism.
I am amazed that although the West Bengali Stalinists have already been through these issues in the last 30 years of rule their frustrated Central Politbureau leaders like Yechuri and Surjeet have almost turned this issue into a Cabinet Decision.
These professional Stalinists have turned the process of subverting Indian Capitalism into another art form. Instead of acknowleding the grave fact that the past Governments (including their own in West Bengal) and the State apparatuses have failed to implement the numerous of Anti-Poverty and Upliftment Schemes and Programmes at the District and National levels they have now done their bit in subversion of the Indian Capitalism by taking this Cabinet decision. Whether we believe it or not this is in fact the last coup attempt by these Stalinists to gloss over the fact about the redundancy of giving more powers to the governmental to exercise controls over the Private Sector.
Let us not forget that these Stalinists are Centralist . So they always talks about real democracy in the Soviet State while disparaging the real American Democracy- In the same way he cites the aberrations in the Capitalism in order to push his narcisstic agenda of total control.
So here he talks about the extent of nepotism in the capitalistic system of recruitments. But can he answer the question of how many percent of recruitments in the private sectors are based considerations of nepotism? And especially when most of these recruitments are clearly geared towards either gaining some benefit for the Private Commercial Concern ( like recruiting ex-government officials or sons of powerful people) and hence may not be at all contrary to the overall goals and objectives any private commercial concern which is Commercial PROFITABILITY.
So what exactly is the game plan of these CPM Stalinists??
Simple- try to kill the Private Sector so that they can claim that the Indian Capitalism is moving towards the final breakdown that their metaphysical religion called Historical Materialism predicts.
However, viewing this as a repudiation of the thesis that the State is NOT the right organization to DELIVER the social goods in the existing bureaucratic enviroment, this would imply that we should first strengthen the hands of the Private NGO-s at the delivery of the existing Social Goods rathar than try to give the funds allocated for the schemes and programmes to the State apparatus per se.
There is a clear division of labour between the State and the Private Commercial Organizations. Where do you think the money to run all the benefit schemens come from?The private Sector clearly fulfils its obligations by paying Thousands of Crores of their hard earned money as Taxes to the government in order to enable the government to run the social programmes for the poor.
So this implies that the State should own up to its failure and not try to shift the burden of its responsibilities and social obligations onto the Private Commercial concerns whose goals and aims are clearly profitability and not social welfare.
This Cabinet Decision is just another attempt by the Stalinists and their bureaucratic friends in the exisiting coalition government to shirking from its responsibility and forcing the Private Sector to become slaves to this forced outsourcing of the social responsibility that actually belongs to the government and which it has badly done job since last 50 years.
We forget that so encompasing the force of this legislation would be that any subsequent government would demand the muslim and other minority organizations to recruit hindu OBC-s and SC/ST in their organizations!!!!
So instead of hanging these Stalinist and their bureaucratic dogs by the post we are letting them deliver their last suicidal act against the Indian Capitalism.
#11 Posted by ballukhan on October 25, 2004 7:41:41 am
Another Conspiracy by the erstwhile Stalinists!!
I am amazed that although the West Bengali Stalinists have already been through these issues in the last 30 years of rule their frustrated Central Politbureau leaders like Yechuri and Surjeet have almost turned this issue into a Cabinet Decision.
These professional Stalinists have turned the process of subverting Indian Capitalism into another art form. Instead of acknowleding the grave fact that the past Governments (including their own in West Bengal) and the State apparatuses have failed to implement the numerous of Anti-Poverty and Upliftment Schemes and Programmes at the District and National levels they have now done their bit in subversion of the Indian Capitalism by taking this Cabinet decision. Whether we believe it or not this is in fact the last coup attempt by these Stalinists to gloss over the fact about the redundancy of giving more powers to the governmental to exercise controls over the Private Sector.
Let us not forget that these Stalinists are Centralist . So they always talks about real democracy in the Soviet State while disparaging the real American Democracy- In the same way he cites the aberrations in the Capitalism in order to push his narcisstic agenda of total control.
So here he talks about the extent of nepotism in the capitalistic system of recruitments. But can he answer the question of how many percent of recruitments in the private sectors are based considerations of nepotism? And especially when most of these recruitments are clearly geared towards either gaining some benefit for the Private Commercial Concern ( like recruiting ex-government officials or sons of powerful people) and hence may not be at all contrary to the overall goals and objectives any private commercial concern which is Commercial PROFITABILITY.
So what exactly is the game plan of these CPM Stalinists??
Simple- try to kill the Private Sector so that they can claim that the Indian Capitalism is moving towards the final breakdown that their metaphysical religion called Historical Materialism predicts.
However, viewing this as a repudiation of the thesis that the State is NOT the right organization to DELIVER the social goods in the existing bureaucratic enviroment, this would imply that we should first strengthen the hands of the Private NGO-s at the delivery of the existing Social Goods rathar than try to give the funds allocated for the schemes and programmes to the State apparatus per se.
There is a clear division of labour between the State and the Private Commercial Organizations. Where do you think the money to run all the benefit schemens come from?The private Sector clearly fulfils its obligations by paying Thousands of Crores of their hard earned money as Taxes to the government in order to enable the government to run the social programmes for the poor.
So this implies that the State should own up to its failure and not try to shift the burden of its responsibilities and social obligations onto the Private Commercial concerns whose goals and aims are clearly profitability and not social welfare.
This Cabinet Decision is just another attempt by the Stalinists and their bureaucratic friends in the exisiting coalition government to shirking from its responsibility and forcing the Private Sector to become slaves to this forced outsourcing of the social responsibility that actually belongs to the government and which it has badly done job since last 50 years.
We forget that so encompasing the force of this legislation would be that any subsequent government would demand the muslim and other minority organizations to recruit hindu OBC-s and SC/ST in their organizations!!!!
So instead of hanging these Stalinist and their bureaucratic dogs by the post we are letting them deliver their last suicidal act against the Indian Capitalism.
I am amazed that although the West Bengali Stalinists have already been through these issues in the last 30 years of rule their frustrated Central Politbureau leaders like Yechuri and Surjeet have almost turned this issue into a Cabinet Decision.
These professional Stalinists have turned the process of subverting Indian Capitalism into another art form. Instead of acknowleding the grave fact that the past Governments (including their own in West Bengal) and the State apparatuses have failed to implement the numerous of Anti-Poverty and Upliftment Schemes and Programmes at the District and National levels they have now done their bit in subversion of the Indian Capitalism by taking this Cabinet decision. Whether we believe it or not this is in fact the last coup attempt by these Stalinists to gloss over the fact about the redundancy of giving more powers to the governmental to exercise controls over the Private Sector.
Let us not forget that these Stalinists are Centralist . So they always talks about real democracy in the Soviet State while disparaging the real American Democracy- In the same way he cites the aberrations in the Capitalism in order to push his narcisstic agenda of total control.
So here he talks about the extent of nepotism in the capitalistic system of recruitments. But can he answer the question of how many percent of recruitments in the private sectors are based considerations of nepotism? And especially when most of these recruitments are clearly geared towards either gaining some benefit for the Private Commercial Concern ( like recruiting ex-government officials or sons of powerful people) and hence may not be at all contrary to the overall goals and objectives any private commercial concern which is Commercial PROFITABILITY.
So what exactly is the game plan of these CPM Stalinists??
Simple- try to kill the Private Sector so that they can claim that the Indian Capitalism is moving towards the final breakdown that their metaphysical religion called Historical Materialism predicts.
However, viewing this as a repudiation of the thesis that the State is NOT the right organization to DELIVER the social goods in the existing bureaucratic enviroment, this would imply that we should first strengthen the hands of the Private NGO-s at the delivery of the existing Social Goods rathar than try to give the funds allocated for the schemes and programmes to the State apparatus per se.
There is a clear division of labour between the State and the Private Commercial Organizations. Where do you think the money to run all the benefit schemens come from?The private Sector clearly fulfils its obligations by paying Thousands of Crores of their hard earned money as Taxes to the government in order to enable the government to run the social programmes for the poor.
So this implies that the State should own up to its failure and not try to shift the burden of its responsibilities and social obligations onto the Private Commercial concerns whose goals and aims are clearly profitability and not social welfare.
This Cabinet Decision is just another attempt by the Stalinists and their bureaucratic friends in the exisiting coalition government to shirking from its responsibility and forcing the Private Sector to become slaves to this forced outsourcing of the social responsibility that actually belongs to the government and which it has badly done job since last 50 years.
We forget that so encompasing the force of this legislation would be that any subsequent government would demand the muslim and other minority organizations to recruit hindu OBC-s and SC/ST in their organizations!!!!
So instead of hanging these Stalinist and their bureaucratic dogs by the post we are letting them deliver their last suicidal act against the Indian Capitalism.
#10 Posted by satyamvada on October 25, 2004 7:39:41 am
Sameerjb....
Merely expressing ``sympathy`` does not mean you are a better person than the
others. Merely asking for more regulation to ``protect the poor`` does not mean
that you are really more concerned. To people like you facts and evidence do not
mean anything. Just because you express ``concern`` - you somehow claim to be
better than others. Such an attitude is pure conceit.
Think for a second that you are a businessman - do you think that you will go around
hiring people of your own jaat even if they are incompetent ? Such crap happens only
in the Govt. Do you know who the largest landowning classes in UP and
Bihar are ? - all the so called ``OBC`s`` - Yadavs. Kurmis etc.
What Dost-mitter rights is all crap .... the guy sits in canada and writes his nonsense
Does he think that all the people who own the neigbourhood box-shops like paan,
grocery shop, tailoring shop, footwear and clothes are all ``forward castes `` ?
Who do you think owns and works in the manufacturing ancillary shops of India ?
They are the ones who will be affected with the whacko
What makes a country rich is: protection of property-rights,access to education,
low taxes, entrepreneurship and trade.
#9 Posted by mohar11 on October 25, 2004 7:39:40 am
#8 by nazarhayatkhan
//...is not easy to become a rich country from a poor country....//
Depends. How many years did it take for S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore to go from third world countries to first world? 30/40 years, may be. How many years is it going to take China ot do so - another 20 years?
We have been talking about Haves and Have-nots for last 57 years. We have been shedding croc tears about the poor for since ages. We have been talking about ``Garibi Hatao`` for so long. ANd yet nothing has happened, has it? The poor are still dirt poor. Why do you think that is so?? Do you have an answer for that???
We don`t like those who call us reds, lefties, commies, do we? And yet, come to think of it - they have a point here........For at least 50 long years - we controlled india`s economy, politics and everything in-between - we had absolute control over everything under the sun. And yet we have nothing to show for it. We did absolutely nothing for the poor, or for anybody else for that matter.
ANd yet, we have the guts to come back as ``advocates of have-nots``!!! Again and again - we come back to shed the same croc tears - talk same old big words and yet, last 50 years, we have delivered nothing.
WHy don`t you old folks give us young guys a chance? You had your chance and did nothing with it - why don`t you realize that you guys have scre!wed up big time? How much more it`s going to take to realize that?
When does this bullsh!t end?
//...is not easy to become a rich country from a poor country....//
Depends. How many years did it take for S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore to go from third world countries to first world? 30/40 years, may be. How many years is it going to take China ot do so - another 20 years?
We have been talking about Haves and Have-nots for last 57 years. We have been shedding croc tears about the poor for since ages. We have been talking about ``Garibi Hatao`` for so long. ANd yet nothing has happened, has it? The poor are still dirt poor. Why do you think that is so?? Do you have an answer for that???
We don`t like those who call us reds, lefties, commies, do we? And yet, come to think of it - they have a point here........For at least 50 long years - we controlled india`s economy, politics and everything in-between - we had absolute control over everything under the sun. And yet we have nothing to show for it. We did absolutely nothing for the poor, or for anybody else for that matter.
ANd yet, we have the guts to come back as ``advocates of have-nots``!!! Again and again - we come back to shed the same croc tears - talk same old big words and yet, last 50 years, we have delivered nothing.
WHy don`t you old folks give us young guys a chance? You had your chance and did nothing with it - why don`t you realize that you guys have scre!wed up big time? How much more it`s going to take to realize that?
When does this bullsh!t end?
#8 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on October 25, 2004 4:57:10 am
Dost Mitter
You are right. As Sameer has said, we HAVES have a made a water tight system (at least in Pakistan) which lowest of lower can not penetrate. Our children get better education, they get more exposure, they get better jobs, they make the merit. If not, we have good connections to get their careers going.
The poor keep running generation after generation for the peon, labourer or driver jobs. The poor women and their daughters work in our homes for ages.
Romair is right when he says that the only institution that picks up a person from wirderness and gets him into the middle class is the 4-5 lakh of armed forces. It is mostly fair selection.
Incidently, the same tight hold is kept by the rich nations on the poor nations. It is not easy to become a rich country from a poor country. The HAVE countries show no mercy and they have a system for it. By making Labour, environment, quality control etc regulations that were not there when they were poor.
nhk
#7 Posted by scott on October 24, 2004 11:11:41 pm
Is there affirmative action in private firms in US & Canada?
#6 Posted by SameerJB on October 24, 2004 11:11:41 pm
There you have it, dear dost-mittar. We are living in a time when the advocates of have-nots in any fields are easily brushed aside by simply labeling them old-fashioned, commies, lefties, reds and reactioneries. Few lucky ones might be dealt a bit kindly by calling them keynesian or liberals. We are living in intersting times when a fashionable fabric print, if seen worn by maids and servants, is discarded quickly as out-of-fashion by people otherwise displaying best of intentions to bring justice, prosperity and equality. Yes sir! the social activists, speaking and writing passionately against the discrimination and injustices prefer to listen to same classical notes of conservative era over and over, played by different groups and artists. The have-nots get nothing from religious, conservatives, liberals, rightists, leftists or seculars in this world.
#5 Posted by veeresh on October 24, 2004 7:56:24 pm
DM, you try to bring in a quantifiable solution to an issue on which it appears as though you have superficial knolwedge at best, basis an assumption like this quoted from your article:-
````All one has to do is to look at the last names of the managers, lawyers, journalists in the news and business media and see that most of the names belong to the Brahmin, Kaysthas, Khatris and other upper castes, with a sprinkling of Jaat and Muslim names; Dalit and other backward caste (OBC) names are conspicuous by their absence. It is thus clear that the managerial and professional class in India’s private sector is not representative of the whole society. ````
Hunh?
a) Do you watch the credits as television programmes roll?
b) Are you able to decipher castes and communities and religions from South Indian names, for example, or from East Indian names for that matter?
c) And most of all, are you aware that surnames are no longer an exclusive domain for caste in India?
Would you, DM ji, try to hazard a guess on the caste/community of people with surnames like Wadia, Dalal, Sharma, Iqbal, Paul . . . and even that holiest of holies, Sharma?
+++
The workforce in the private sector is there basis selection and tenure based on competence. People from even the most backward of castes and communities understand this, and so do employers.
The workforce in the public sector is there basis these convoluted calculations based on faulty assumptions and see where it got India?
Please, DM-ji, do try to implement such solutions within the ethnic community in your adopted country as a voluntary experiment first.
````All one has to do is to look at the last names of the managers, lawyers, journalists in the news and business media and see that most of the names belong to the Brahmin, Kaysthas, Khatris and other upper castes, with a sprinkling of Jaat and Muslim names; Dalit and other backward caste (OBC) names are conspicuous by their absence. It is thus clear that the managerial and professional class in India’s private sector is not representative of the whole society. ````
Hunh?
a) Do you watch the credits as television programmes roll?
b) Are you able to decipher castes and communities and religions from South Indian names, for example, or from East Indian names for that matter?
c) And most of all, are you aware that surnames are no longer an exclusive domain for caste in India?
Would you, DM ji, try to hazard a guess on the caste/community of people with surnames like Wadia, Dalal, Sharma, Iqbal, Paul . . . and even that holiest of holies, Sharma?
+++
The workforce in the private sector is there basis selection and tenure based on competence. People from even the most backward of castes and communities understand this, and so do employers.
The workforce in the public sector is there basis these convoluted calculations based on faulty assumptions and see where it got India?
Please, DM-ji, do try to implement such solutions within the ethnic community in your adopted country as a voluntary experiment first.
#4 Posted by bongdongs on October 24, 2004 7:40:49 pm
bring it on! I know a district magistrate who can make me any caste certificate I want. It helps that most Bengali`s have a rather vague idea about the whole caste thing to start with. Jyoti Basu having famously dismissed Mr Mandal`s magnum-opus as ``Not relevant in Bengal!``
I hear the highest prices going are for the Nomadic Tribe ones, the OBC one`s are useless. Hey, maybe I`ll pick up one of those fancy 20 lakh/year Bangalore jobs with my fresh-from-the-press NT certificate.
problem is ~150 million of my caste-advantaged/disadvantaged (now I`m all confused which one it is) bretheren will have the same idea. So what will we do, a Saudi ``religious police`` style ``caste police`` maybe?
I hear the highest prices going are for the Nomadic Tribe ones, the OBC one`s are useless. Hey, maybe I`ll pick up one of those fancy 20 lakh/year Bangalore jobs with my fresh-from-the-press NT certificate.
problem is ~150 million of my caste-advantaged/disadvantaged (now I`m all confused which one it is) bretheren will have the same idea. So what will we do, a Saudi ``religious police`` style ``caste police`` maybe?
#3 Posted by mohar11 on October 24, 2004 6:53:48 pm
//....Large firms should be asked to undertake an annual survey of the caste composition of their employees in the selected occupations....//
Yep - that`s exactly what India needs right now - annual survey of ``caste compositions`` in workforce. Your brains have frozen in tundra of canuckistan.
Here is one humble request to the esteem comrade - Why don`t you wait until the Golden Goose lays at least one golden egg - before killing it. Right now - it`s just a baby. Those who have worked hard to bring up the ``Private Sector`` upto speed, deserve at least that much consideration - don`t you think?
Commies have already killed privatization - Privatization is dead as door knob. FDI is on the death bed - no more money is coming in.
I mean, have some mercy, man. What`s your hurry - you will have plenty of time to kill and cook the goose. After all - you have 57 years of experience in doing so. Industry after industry, year after year - India`s goose have been cooked by the this moronic brigrade of jack-a$$ moth!erf@kkers. And yet they are not satisfied.
Fukkk@#^& man - when is this nightmare going to end???? When are we going to be free of this BullSh!t. We are supposed have some 330 million gods [.... no wait it`s actually more than that ... add muhammad,jesus,nanak to the list] Can`t any one of them intervene to save us from these people?
Yep - that`s exactly what India needs right now - annual survey of ``caste compositions`` in workforce. Your brains have frozen in tundra of canuckistan.
Here is one humble request to the esteem comrade - Why don`t you wait until the Golden Goose lays at least one golden egg - before killing it. Right now - it`s just a baby. Those who have worked hard to bring up the ``Private Sector`` upto speed, deserve at least that much consideration - don`t you think?
Commies have already killed privatization - Privatization is dead as door knob. FDI is on the death bed - no more money is coming in.
I mean, have some mercy, man. What`s your hurry - you will have plenty of time to kill and cook the goose. After all - you have 57 years of experience in doing so. Industry after industry, year after year - India`s goose have been cooked by the this moronic brigrade of jack-a$$ moth!erf@kkers. And yet they are not satisfied.
Fukkk@#^& man - when is this nightmare going to end???? When are we going to be free of this BullSh!t. We are supposed have some 330 million gods [.... no wait it`s actually more than that ... add muhammad,jesus,nanak to the list] Can`t any one of them intervene to save us from these people?
#2 Posted by Netizen on October 24, 2004 4:29:11 pm
This quota system is a bane of the Indian society. This is the life blood of castiest parties of V.P. Singh, Paswan, Laloo, Mulayam et al. Instead of looking at what caused the failure of the behemoth PSUs, they now want a share of the profit making private sector. When is all this nonsense going to stop. If the gov. is that serious then they should fire Tendulkar, kumble, dravid et al. from the team and get lower castes there too. Anyway who cares about winning, we should care more about proper representation.
jai hind
jai hind
#1 Posted by satyamvada on October 24, 2004 4:29:11 pm
Oh gosh...the fool spills bytes again !
Dost mitter - You also claim to be an economist right ?
What you are ``recommending`` is a new Ministry of Job Equity and a whole new
beauracracy to restrain the poorest people of India from improving their lives.
It is people with your self-righteous mentality who have prevented India from becoming
rich in the past 50 years.
When you write this nonsense - also think of how an industrialist may seek to
avoid all these regulations. Overnite all the companies that employ more than
thousand will suddenly dissolve themselves and re-register themselves under different
various names with an employe base of 950 each - It is that easy !!!
People will change their names and give false jati background - how many people
are you going to check ? We will then need a special police force
I higly recommend that you read Hazlitt`s
http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Nonfiction_EconomicsInOneLesson.html,
also read writings of Friedrich Hayek`s and Federic Bastiat.
Read some stuff and ``think` before writing this kind of drivel.
With well wishers like you the poor of India do not need enemies
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