Employment Equity in India’s Private Sector

Urstruly,

In Islamic polity the Ameer cannot be a non-Muslim, if it does n`t fit your moral standards then so be it, we are not answerable to you, we are accountable to our God.

This guy is moron and shows the true color of islam. Tha is, when in minority in foreign land, preach secularism, hold muslim vote bank together and keep on multiplying.
When you become majority suddenly your morals change and secularism becomes s**t ideology, non-muslim must be treated as per sharia and hadith and blah blah blah.

You`re nothing but moderate version of OBL until you can`t take the world anymore like the way it it and become a jihadi.

DM
//... I think they would only be viewed with favour by the international media....//

You think so? Well - then stop ``thinking``. ``International Media`` will singger at the fact that the incompetent India gov`t is passing on its own responsibility on to the private businesses. As it is - the private businesses get a bitter taste from the gov`t and babus. On top of that - now they would have to figure out the ``caste composition`` of the workforce.

Companies go to other countries to make money - NOT to be en-messed with that country`s social issues. ``International Media`` will have a riot with this bullsh!t.

You have done enough ``thinking``. Please give it a rest.

I am all for reservation in the educational system not in the job sector.

Reservations in positions which have a responsibility towards others should be based only on merit and nothing else.

The way to improve the lot of backward classes is to ensure that they have access to good quality education even if it comes at the cost of higher classes. Backward class students can be admitted to the medical college but they should be given a degree only if they make the required grade. Not otherwise. Similarly, when they step out they should be hired only if they have merit not otherwise.

Rahulmal#71:
``This is laughable. The private sector companies have to deliver value to their stakeholders. If the company is publicly listed, then shareholders have a stake and if privately owned, then the partners or family members have a stake. Your assumption that merit is secondary in selections is turning the capitalism logic on its head.``

Please read my reply to netizen(#75). I cannot overemphasize the point that I believe that the equity objectives can be achieved without sacrificing efficiency or profitability. Private firms in both Canada and the US have been doing this and also delivering profits. I have never seen any firm going bankupt blaming affirmative actions for their failure.

``I also couldn`t understand the prescription of limiting the reservation scheme to >1000 people companies. Infact, nepotism and lack of transparency in selections is more likely in smaller companies as compared to Reliance, Wipro and Infosys`s of this world.``

The >1000 restrictions is for practical purposes. Exceptions notwithstanding, smaller firms, in general are likely to have fewer professional/managerial positions where the problem is the most acute.

anil#67
I fully share your sentiments.

Urstruly#74:
Your post is an open acknowledgement that you live in a glass house. So, please stop throwing stones at others.

Netizen#64:
This article is not to defend the politicians and their unethical practices. I will join you in their full condemnation when the occasion arises. It is simply to acknowledge the fact that India`s underclass needs some pro-active measures on the part of the private sector to compensate for their lack of access to the levers of power in the private sector. I believe that they now do have access to the levers of power in the public sector through a better representation -numerical if not qualitative- in the political establishment. I also believe that half a century of reservations/quotas in educational institutions should have assured a sufficient supply of competent candidates from the lower castes so that their representation in the private sector can be improved without sacrificing overall productivity.

Dost Mitter

I do not know about other 59 countries but Pakistan is an Islamic polity thru its constitution (or whatever is left of it). It is not a secular country. In Islamic polity the Ameer cannot be a non-Muslim, if it does n`t fit your moral standards then so be it, we are not answerable to you, we are accountable to our God. However, if you take this as a licence to discriminate against your own Muslim population then you must also stop pontifying others as well. That was my point.

Dost Mitter

I do not know about other 59 countries but Pakistan is an Islamic polity thru its constitution (or whatever is left of it). It is not a secular country. In Islamic polity the Ameer cannot be a non-Muslim, if it does n`t fit your moral standards then so be it, we are not answerable to you, we are accountable to our God. However, if you take this as a licence to discriminate against your own Muslim population then you must also stop pontifying others as well. That was my point.

Urstruly:
I admire and appreciate your interest in India and coming to a board devoted to India`s problems. But it is useless to discuss any problem with you since your muslim-specific rhetoric is not only simple but it also has absolutely no regard for facts. Never mind India, you do not seem to know enough even about the country`s muslims.

It is nobody`s case (at least not mine) that India`s secularism is flawless or that muslim representation in several sectors does not need to be improved. But as a muslim, you should be ashamed of the fact that of the 60-some muslim countries, you wont be able to point out to even one country where the president, the prime minister or the most powerful politician is a non-muslim, let alone all three of them.

Kabhi kabaar aiynai mein jhaank kar bhi dekh lena chaahiye!

DMji,

i was aghast at the knee-jerk treatment of an issue as serious as caste-based reservation in private sector. It is poorly reserched and resorts to cliches.

``They assume, for instance, that the current system of recruitment is indeed based on merit and merit alone. Anyone familiar with the private sector in India knows that this is not the case.``

This is laughable. The private sector companies have to deliver value to their stakeholders. If the company is publicly listed, then shareholders have a stake and if privately owned, then the partners or family members have a stake. Your assumption that merit is secondary in selections is turning the capitalism logic on its head.

I also couldn`t understand the prescription of limiting the reservation scheme to >1000 people companies. Infact, nepotism and lack of transparency in selections is more likely in smaller companies as compared to Reliance, Wipro and Infosys`s of this world.

The fact is that government has failed to alleviate the problems of poverty, lack of education and development in India in the last 6 decades. Private sector is the only part of the society that has taken forward strides despite the incompetence and apathy of successive governments. They`ve already destroyed the public sector with their non-sense reservation and promotion policies. Now they want to kill the goose that lays golden eggs.

Andher nagari chaupat Raja!!

Dost Mitter and several others

Please spare me of your pompous and self righteous indignation until you have something concrete to show me. The fact of the matter is that on national basis Muslim representation in anything is less than 3% and that is a solid and irrefutable indicator of the inherent anti-Mulsim discrimination in your society. Had the participation of Muslims, who constitute from 20% to 25% of population of India, been close to 10% or 12 % then we could blame the disparity on education and other apolitical factors in the society but a figure of less than 3% indicates the criminal and anti-human nature of discrimination in your society. The fact remains that if you subtract the income and foreign exchange that is sent by diaspora indian Muslims, the economics of the Muslim segment of the population is horrific. Now I know for a fact that IK Gujral or probably VP Singh, in mid 80`s after Indra, tried to give 0.5% extra quota to lower caste hindus, and it resulted in a nationwide wheel jam with protests from upper caste hindus where they even went as far as self immulating themselves to stop this increase of benefit to lower caste. The government was eventually forced to take this reform back. Now, I know you all are so fond of talking about big words like `equity` and `participation` but the fact remains that Muslims stand absolutely no chance in India. I want to know what concrete steps you can take to stop this inhuman discrimination of Muslims, otherwise plz refrain from pontificating innocent bystanders on net with your self-serving propaganda.

Ref scott #65

[``Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion`` ha ha is that what they really call him?]

Yes. The Masanamuthus of Tamil Nadu never refer to a poltical leader by name but by a variety of titles, usually self-bestowed. Thus Karunanidhi -- whose name translates to The Fund of Compassion -- is referred to by ALL of his several titles. He called himself the Artist for being a script-writer for C-grade movies. He is the Leader of the DMK party. He got himself an honorary doctorate from a local university after the police killed at least one among the protesting students. Thus he is Doctor Artist Leader to the Masanamuthus of Tamil Nadu. He used to have one more, Chief Minister, which he doesn`t have currently.

I do NOT have to make up anything weird about this place. It is already unbelievably weird.

Anil, the cooperative movement has been going on.Clearly it does not affect everyone.Only the skilled labourers.Who anyhow are not going to go for jobs.So dost-mittar is right in pointing out that this is a supplemental measure.
You are right in saying that this should be done with more fervour,small scale and cottage industries should be promoted more vigorously.My point is,make education more relevant, dont gear education only towards producing babus, make it more technical,teach more skills and crafts,so that more and more people can benefit from the cooperative movement.
We have to get out of the colonial education system.Whats wrong with making a skill or a craft compulsory in government schools even in primary levels?Why not teach every child to become an entrepreneur craftsman?
In fact, I see reservations as a postive reinforcement to encourage entrepreneurship in higher castes,who traditionally work their asses off preparing for public sector examinations.

``Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion`` ha ha is that what they really call him?

Harimau sir,

``There IS a difference. We have the choice of the State Board, the Central Board, the Senior Cambridge Examinations, etc., so that the student or his parents have a choice of curricula. Most of the Maasanamuthus and Sangilikkaruppans of Tamil Nadu take the State Board knowing it is the easiest. ..``

-- I don`t think you know how the education system works in TN.. ask some of your relatives (if u still have any left in TN..).. The marks in the board exams whether it is state/central board get a weightage of 200/300 and the common entrance exam which is the same for all the students irrespective of their boards, account for the remaining 100..
And it is a big stretch to say all the so called ``FC```s study in the ``tough`` central board and all the ``masanamuthus`` studied in the ``easy`` state boards..

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``I suppose that is why Murasoli Maran spent 10 months (and the government`s money) in a hospital in Houston, TX.``.

``Just last week, Stalin left for the US ostensibly to visit his daughter but also to get a medical check-up, having been rushed a few days earlier to Apollo Hospital in Chennai at 9 pm with chest pains``

``And of course your own Great Intellectual Elder Brother was treated for cancer in the US, MGR underwent treatment in Maryland, and the Fund of Compassion gets his medical check-ups in the US too. ``

---

This is ridiculous, ppl go where they can get the specialists. It`s not just folks from India, but rich ppl from all over the world come to the US for treating their medical conditions.. It`s a wrong notion that Murasoli maran got treated thru` the govt. money. His son clarified that all the expenses were paid by him. And I`m no lawyer for Maran/Karunanidhi.. To hell with them..

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``I went to a Tamil-medium ``private`` school where the tuition was all of Rs. 3 a month till the 8th grade and Rs. 7 thereafter. And to ease the burden on large families, the school waived the tuition for the third child if three brothers were in school at the same time. A few years later, the state made secondary education free and paid the school the loss in revenues so the same education I received was available to all and sundry. So stop your baloney about lack of quality education

-- Good to know that.. Wow, Rs 3 a month.. looks like you`re pretty old.. i can see that from your outdated views.. same education and ``private``, just wondering how many ``masanamuthus`` studied with u, or did u study in those ``agraharam`` type schools where only certain ppl are allowed..... I bet you had your relatives either as govt. officers, doctors, maybe one or two in america..
See, I dont begrudge the fact that you did well, came up on your own etc.. etc..

But please think abt the kid whose parents are illiterate, have just enough money to survive and never knew any engineer/doctor/IAS officer in his/her family/neighbors.. Isn`t it good that the benefits of higher education be made available to that kid??..

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``That has nothing to do with affirmative action. Tamil Nadu has 260+ engineering colleges and Karnataka has 100+. (No errors in those numbers.) With a large number of code coolies coming out of these colleges, FDI investment will definitely come to these two states and not go to Orissa or Mizoram. Or Kashmir. (Urstruly, go pop an artery). ..``

-- well well.. what can I say.. do you think ppl invest in a place where quality manpower is not available.. esp. for fields like IT/Biotech.. and do you seriously think ppl who get hired by the companies are just the ``intelligent`` forward castes..??

Harimau sir, good to know that you`re interested in finding out my name, dad`s name etc..
I`m really the ``masanamuthu`` you caricature in your writings..and I dont respect/disrespect a person for what caste/religion he/she is born into, but rather on what he/she stands for..

Cheers,

Dear Dost-Mitter:

If the objectives are to achieve greater upward mobility in education, health, prosperity through job creation, then why not community based economic initiatives be considered, and create efficient access to the marketplace for the goods and services that are offered by the communities. Kashmiri Carpet, and Mirzapuri Carpet industries are other examples.

In 1999, I ordered pashmina shawls on Internet through a company in New York. This company was run by an American gentleman and a Paksitani woman who had Nepalese women weaving pashmina shawls in a village in Nepal. In ten days, I got my shawls delivered to my home all the way from Nepal village via New York. The shawls were made to my colors and beautiful. I asked the American gentleman, of his experience, he sounded enthusiastic and was also running a school for the kids of the women weaving for his company. The profit he brought in the village allowed him to set up a dispensary as well for basic healthcare. Again no job quota, just community based initiative. There are many success stories which are probably not heard in the ivory towers of bureaucrats and economic planners in Delhi.

A few years ago, I had an opportunity to visit Cotton-rugs and Durrie manufacturing facility near Delhi. These villagers took cotton to their homes and made Cotton-rugs and Durries for export. There exists an amazing network of entreprenuers who link these homes to the showrooms world wide. The prosperity of these villages in Haryana is obvious and quite visible. I would say each network at least supports 1,000 homes and therefore at least 1,000 jobs which pay better than what they will make working in Delhi. One of my friends in Manhattan and in Maharani Bagh in New Delhi own a factory to produce high end embroidery and bead work used in high fashions sold in places like Saks Fifth Avenue, Nordstrom etc. The workers are managed by a contractor, and these workers can come and live in the factory and work and then go home. These are again significantly higher paying jobs created for them by the market forces. They all possess some form of knoweldge, it is not software or IT, but certainly valuable worthy enough to call it intellectual capital. Entreprenuers have connected this intellectual capital to the market palce to bring profits to these centers of different excellence, and results are quite obvious. I did not see any cry for employment - equity or quota among these workers. Interestingly their sons and daughters were very aware of the owner ship of intellectual capital and I would not be surprised next generation entreprenuers will be from this younger generation and bring more profits and prosperity to their villages and homes.

A fresh look and approach for old social and economic issues is needed.

Anil