Hey JC, won’t you smile for me?
Farzana Versey December 20, 2004
#62 Posted by dost_mittar on December 23, 2004 6:03:47 am
tahmed32#46:
`` Worry about our own muslim ummah that worships pirs and faqirs and other rogues as if they were sons of God.``
Unless you belong to the tableeghi jamaat, please go easy on those who offer sajdas to Ajmer wale khwaja or sing/hear qawaalis at the dargah of Hazrat Nizamuddin and other such places (that includes yours truly!). These `worshippers` teach nothing but love for their fellow humans and wont harm you in any way if you insult or abuse them and even the objects of their love and devotion.
I wont be able to say the same for those who `worship` the man whom they hold at least 10 notches above Allah; you can hurl explicit abuses at Allah to their face and not a `joon` will `raing`; but say a word which is remotely deemed to be disrespectful to the object of their `worship` and your life is endangered. That object of their worship cannot even be mentioned except in the most praiseworthy manner. His fear is so complete that his `worship` cannot even be called worship and has to disguised in terms such as love and respect.
PM:
I think that there is some truth to those claims. I remember that a yogi in India once declared with great fanfare that he was to be buried and not to be taken out before 60 days. As I recall, he made some noises and had to be brought out after a couple of days. But he did survive those two days.
`` Worry about our own muslim ummah that worships pirs and faqirs and other rogues as if they were sons of God.``
Unless you belong to the tableeghi jamaat, please go easy on those who offer sajdas to Ajmer wale khwaja or sing/hear qawaalis at the dargah of Hazrat Nizamuddin and other such places (that includes yours truly!). These `worshippers` teach nothing but love for their fellow humans and wont harm you in any way if you insult or abuse them and even the objects of their love and devotion.
I wont be able to say the same for those who `worship` the man whom they hold at least 10 notches above Allah; you can hurl explicit abuses at Allah to their face and not a `joon` will `raing`; but say a word which is remotely deemed to be disrespectful to the object of their `worship` and your life is endangered. That object of their worship cannot even be mentioned except in the most praiseworthy manner. His fear is so complete that his `worship` cannot even be called worship and has to disguised in terms such as love and respect.
PM:
I think that there is some truth to those claims. I remember that a yogi in India once declared with great fanfare that he was to be buried and not to be taken out before 60 days. As I recall, he made some noises and had to be brought out after a couple of days. But he did survive those two days.
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#61 Posted by harish_hyd on December 23, 2004 1:41:13 am
#57 by PM
[Silly theories aside, is this true of practitioners of yoga/pranayam??? I mean, are they able to hold their breath for days!?!?]
Yes there are! I don’t know whether they could do it for days together, but my Yoga master could hold his breath for at least 6 hours (that’s the time I spent watching him. I soon got bored and left). My friends who stayed back said he held it for a further 6 hours. When I spoke to him later, he said his gurus in the Himalayas are capable of holding their breaths for weeks, if not months. He also said that Pranayama helps prevent ageing, and practitioners were healthier and looked and felt younger than they actually are. This has helped them live longer too.
[Silly theories aside, is this true of practitioners of yoga/pranayam??? I mean, are they able to hold their breath for days!?!?]
Yes there are! I don’t know whether they could do it for days together, but my Yoga master could hold his breath for at least 6 hours (that’s the time I spent watching him. I soon got bored and left). My friends who stayed back said he held it for a further 6 hours. When I spoke to him later, he said his gurus in the Himalayas are capable of holding their breaths for weeks, if not months. He also said that Pranayama helps prevent ageing, and practitioners were healthier and looked and felt younger than they actually are. This has helped them live longer too.
#60 Posted by FarzanaVersey on December 22, 2004 11:58:36 pm
I really do not know what to say, but this was not a criticism of Christ, for Chrissake. PM, halur, explain no? How does this qualify as a parody of Christ? From which angle are you looking? And what is this...`write about Islam and write about blah and blah...` I wanted to write about this, so I wrote. And how conveniently paras 7/8 are ignored, where I have in fact mentioned the touchiness of Muslims.
PM:
There is a book, `Jesus in India`. My country is really a happening place.
May elaborate on some posts later...meanwhile thanks for those who wrote in. Many responses are indeed far better than the article itself. I do bring out the best in people :)
PM:
There is a book, `Jesus in India`. My country is really a happening place.
May elaborate on some posts later...meanwhile thanks for those who wrote in. Many responses are indeed far better than the article itself. I do bring out the best in people :)
#59 Posted by PM on December 22, 2004 11:22:58 pm
re. #56, ana
Noooloo, fusst of all, Mary Christmas!
achha.. your point is well taken about EO-porphet bashing... or at least religion-bashing. I sent a post in reply to one by armughal, in which i pointed out the inanity of trying to prove the incorrectness of one dogma by reference to another, but chowk swallowed it up.
khair... about the `facrical` comment i made... Tell me how any same person is to believe (assuming s/he buys the possibility of ressurection to begin with) that a mother (or was it the other Mary-- Martha ki behn?) can hold a conversation with the resurrected man himself and NOT realize it was him!? (She thought it was the tombkeeper!)
And then, then there`s the fact that not all the (NT) gospels even mention something as (you`d think) important as the Resurrection.
aanyway... Iget what you mean about matter of faith, but personally think that faith should never offend simple common sense/ reason.
you write: ``i find myself rather drawn to jesus, and his words, his smile and his laughter. ``
Which Jesus are we talking about here? the Willem Deofe one or James Cavaziel wala? Coz Isure as heck don`t think anyone has any idea of Jesus`s smile, or laughter. (BTW, what references to his laughter are there in the NT anyway? I`m not saying I think he wasn`t probably a cool guy who could see the funny side of life, but then, that`s probably what I WANT to believe about him.)
``...but even after all this learning, and reading, i am hardpressed to strip jesus of his divinity.``
Oh C`mon ana, you know that`s a silly thing to say. I mean, I can cite any number of PhD`s in Literature and history or even Divinity that still believe in things like djinns and Prophets ascending seventh heaven and what not.. and all because their momma`s told them so at a very young age.
`` i don`t believe that jesus has been incapable of being fully human and fully divine.``
No one suggested so even for a second.
``i do believe that more than a few of us humans have been incapable of being fully human. but then what do i know?``
Well, you DO know how to switch quite effortlessly from semi-logical arguments to emotional ones. :-)
Noooloo, fusst of all, Mary Christmas!
achha.. your point is well taken about EO-porphet bashing... or at least religion-bashing. I sent a post in reply to one by armughal, in which i pointed out the inanity of trying to prove the incorrectness of one dogma by reference to another, but chowk swallowed it up.
khair... about the `facrical` comment i made... Tell me how any same person is to believe (assuming s/he buys the possibility of ressurection to begin with) that a mother (or was it the other Mary-- Martha ki behn?) can hold a conversation with the resurrected man himself and NOT realize it was him!? (She thought it was the tombkeeper!)
And then, then there`s the fact that not all the (NT) gospels even mention something as (you`d think) important as the Resurrection.
aanyway... Iget what you mean about matter of faith, but personally think that faith should never offend simple common sense/ reason.
you write: ``i find myself rather drawn to jesus, and his words, his smile and his laughter. ``
Which Jesus are we talking about here? the Willem Deofe one or James Cavaziel wala? Coz Isure as heck don`t think anyone has any idea of Jesus`s smile, or laughter. (BTW, what references to his laughter are there in the NT anyway? I`m not saying I think he wasn`t probably a cool guy who could see the funny side of life, but then, that`s probably what I WANT to believe about him.)
``...but even after all this learning, and reading, i am hardpressed to strip jesus of his divinity.``
Oh C`mon ana, you know that`s a silly thing to say. I mean, I can cite any number of PhD`s in Literature and history or even Divinity that still believe in things like djinns and Prophets ascending seventh heaven and what not.. and all because their momma`s told them so at a very young age.
`` i don`t believe that jesus has been incapable of being fully human and fully divine.``
No one suggested so even for a second.
``i do believe that more than a few of us humans have been incapable of being fully human. but then what do i know?``
Well, you DO know how to switch quite effortlessly from semi-logical arguments to emotional ones. :-)
#58 Posted by PM on December 22, 2004 11:16:43 pm
re. #44 by dost-mittar on December 22, 2004 12:57pm PT
[...did you hear that Jesus had learnt the art of Yoga and Pranayam during his claimed stay in India? According to this theory, he had mastered the ability to hold his breath for several days;]
Silly theories aside, is this true of practitioners of yoga/pranayam??? I mean, are they able to hold their breath for days!?!?
[...did you hear that Jesus had learnt the art of Yoga and Pranayam during his claimed stay in India? According to this theory, he had mastered the ability to hold his breath for several days;]
Silly theories aside, is this true of practitioners of yoga/pranayam??? I mean, are they able to hold their breath for days!?!?
#57 Posted by PM on December 22, 2004 11:16:43 pm
re. tahmed #46
Farzana was ``being funny about`` JC here? jeez! could`ve fooled me, that girl!
Farzana was ``being funny about`` JC here? jeez! could`ve fooled me, that girl!
#56 Posted by rahul_capri on December 22, 2004 8:33:41 pm
hamidm, As of now, you are known because of chowk.
I think it is high time chowk is known because of you.
If you expect as many cheerleaders as urstruly has, I think you will be disappointed, but still, I say, go for it.
I think it is high time chowk is known because of you.
If you expect as many cheerleaders as urstruly has, I think you will be disappointed, but still, I say, go for it.
#55 Posted by ana on December 22, 2004 8:33:41 pm
i know it`s only been a week. . . but i was online and dash it all, i just couldn`t resist. . .
tussaud`s is all about celebrities, isn`t it? does it really matter if david and victoria are joseph and mary, and yes, the bumbling blair and bush. it`s just their representation. if caviezel can be christ, what stops victoria from being mary? is caviezel a more moral and chosen one than victoria. it`s rather baffling, boggling and all a bunch of bollocks!
i suppose everyone is entitled to chuckle about the ``silly theories`` regarding christ`s birth, life, death and resurrection. it`s been anything goes, or open season for a long long time on what atheists, non-believers, and ``apostates`` call the irrationality of christ`s story among those of other paighambars and gods. but these aren`t just silly theories to some folk. these are matters of faith, like believing that gabriel told mohammad to write is a matter of faith, like singing ``om jai jagdish hare`` is more than just chanting a few words in front of a figurine.
but since i mentioned silly theories (and i didn`t mention or imply it first), there has been a lot that has been written and said about christ`s life. it`s interesting. one certainly doesn`t have to take all of it seriously, just as one doesn`t take the purana and naya ehadnaameh seriously and says that the gospels actually prove that christ`s resurrection was a farce. it`s all quite interesting. and some of the responses are more interesting than the article itself.
there is a beautiful poem written in spanish by sor juana de la cruz, i think, called ``la noche oscura``. . . in which she expresses her love for her christ in beautiful and ecstatic terms. i have limited access to the internet right now otherwise i`d search for it and say more. i find myself rather drawn to jesus, and his words, his smile and his laughter. and i think its wonderful that there are those who want to humanize him because one of the reasons, if not the reason christ was crucified was for his humanity. but even after all this learning, and reading, i am hardpressed to strip jesus of his divinity. i don`t believe that jesus has been incapable of being fully human and fully divine. i do believe that more than a few of us humans have been incapable of being fully human. but then what do i know?
and folks, this is an article about JC. mohammad`s life is no less interesting, but if non-muslim scholars can write commentaries about mohammad and islam and the muslim world, certainly a journalist like Farzana can feel qualified to comment on her opinions on the beautiful and smiling JC. they are opinions afterall. . . there are some who have written words about the prophet mohammad which set off bells every single time. and those are opinions too. . . but hey, no equal opportunity prophet bashing here! perhaps those of you who are overly anxious can ``bhanDa phoRo`` and shed some light on the ``can`t touch this`` mohammad yourself, eh?
oh yeah, and if any of you are celebrating christmas inspite of the tussaud`s controversy which i didn`t even know about until now, merry christmas! (i guess one does learn something new on chowk afterall). i`ll be getting back to helping out with preparations meself.
tussaud`s is all about celebrities, isn`t it? does it really matter if david and victoria are joseph and mary, and yes, the bumbling blair and bush. it`s just their representation. if caviezel can be christ, what stops victoria from being mary? is caviezel a more moral and chosen one than victoria. it`s rather baffling, boggling and all a bunch of bollocks!
i suppose everyone is entitled to chuckle about the ``silly theories`` regarding christ`s birth, life, death and resurrection. it`s been anything goes, or open season for a long long time on what atheists, non-believers, and ``apostates`` call the irrationality of christ`s story among those of other paighambars and gods. but these aren`t just silly theories to some folk. these are matters of faith, like believing that gabriel told mohammad to write is a matter of faith, like singing ``om jai jagdish hare`` is more than just chanting a few words in front of a figurine.
but since i mentioned silly theories (and i didn`t mention or imply it first), there has been a lot that has been written and said about christ`s life. it`s interesting. one certainly doesn`t have to take all of it seriously, just as one doesn`t take the purana and naya ehadnaameh seriously and says that the gospels actually prove that christ`s resurrection was a farce. it`s all quite interesting. and some of the responses are more interesting than the article itself.
there is a beautiful poem written in spanish by sor juana de la cruz, i think, called ``la noche oscura``. . . in which she expresses her love for her christ in beautiful and ecstatic terms. i have limited access to the internet right now otherwise i`d search for it and say more. i find myself rather drawn to jesus, and his words, his smile and his laughter. and i think its wonderful that there are those who want to humanize him because one of the reasons, if not the reason christ was crucified was for his humanity. but even after all this learning, and reading, i am hardpressed to strip jesus of his divinity. i don`t believe that jesus has been incapable of being fully human and fully divine. i do believe that more than a few of us humans have been incapable of being fully human. but then what do i know?
and folks, this is an article about JC. mohammad`s life is no less interesting, but if non-muslim scholars can write commentaries about mohammad and islam and the muslim world, certainly a journalist like Farzana can feel qualified to comment on her opinions on the beautiful and smiling JC. they are opinions afterall. . . there are some who have written words about the prophet mohammad which set off bells every single time. and those are opinions too. . . but hey, no equal opportunity prophet bashing here! perhaps those of you who are overly anxious can ``bhanDa phoRo`` and shed some light on the ``can`t touch this`` mohammad yourself, eh?
oh yeah, and if any of you are celebrating christmas inspite of the tussaud`s controversy which i didn`t even know about until now, merry christmas! (i guess one does learn something new on chowk afterall). i`ll be getting back to helping out with preparations meself.
#54 Posted by Singularity on December 22, 2004 4:48:53 pm
All,
It is good that the muslims and some non-muslims understand the methods and ways adopted by teh west to Colonize the Non-Western, Non-Christian Mind. But the next target should be to deal with the Arab Imperialism imposed on the Non-Arabs in the guise of Islam. Anybody up for it. Maybe the so eloquent farzana will take a shot at it :)
Regards.
It is good that the muslims and some non-muslims understand the methods and ways adopted by teh west to Colonize the Non-Western, Non-Christian Mind. But the next target should be to deal with the Arab Imperialism imposed on the Non-Arabs in the guise of Islam. Anybody up for it. Maybe the so eloquent farzana will take a shot at it :)
Regards.
#53 Posted by jang on December 22, 2004 4:48:53 pm
why is all that is good is attacked? santa is absolutely great, i saw two cute twin women get their picture taken with him in the mall, and that was pure delight.
please dont harass santa baba, i am going to light some lamps in front of my Balsam Fir tonite, gather neighborhood kids and sing a santa baba aarti..actually he reminds me of one of our own rotund gods who is also a hit among kids..he too has a red-nosed mouse.
so sing kids..
jai santa, jai santa, jai santa baba
pls get me a present, drink up some java
(PS if enyone know a good Santa Aarti please share it).
please dont harass santa baba, i am going to light some lamps in front of my Balsam Fir tonite, gather neighborhood kids and sing a santa baba aarti..actually he reminds me of one of our own rotund gods who is also a hit among kids..he too has a red-nosed mouse.
so sing kids..
jai santa, jai santa, jai santa baba
pls get me a present, drink up some java
(PS if enyone know a good Santa Aarti please share it).
#52 Posted by nikki7777 on December 22, 2004 4:07:03 pm
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#51 Posted by temporal on December 22, 2004 3:43:51 pm
hamidm
go for it bro
main hooN na
so what is another identity and `protection`
go for it bro
main hooN na
so what is another identity and `protection`
#50 Posted by jang on December 22, 2004 3:27:06 pm
Looks like some want to get rid of white domination of christianity and associated brainwashing.
I am sure this will happen immediately after muslims will have names like Ramdas Singh and Laxmi, and we start breaking out fast with a Coconut instead of a Date.
Deconstruction is a popular industry in India. Commies do it out of spite and there are also plenty of mainstream researchers..here are some interesting books about Mahabharat.
Yuganta, Prof Iravati Karve, Sangam Books (1991) ISBN: 0863110983
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0863110983/qid=1103745375/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/102-0369486-8525726?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no36790.htm
I am sure this will happen immediately after muslims will have names like Ramdas Singh and Laxmi, and we start breaking out fast with a Coconut instead of a Date.
Deconstruction is a popular industry in India. Commies do it out of spite and there are also plenty of mainstream researchers..here are some interesting books about Mahabharat.
Yuganta, Prof Iravati Karve, Sangam Books (1991) ISBN: 0863110983
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0863110983/qid=1103745375/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/102-0369486-8525726?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no36790.htm
#49 Posted by tahmed32 on December 22, 2004 3:27:05 pm
Farzana: Forget about Jesus. Worry about our own muslim ummah that worships pirs and faqirs and other rogues as if they were sons of God. And I dare you to take up hamidm on his challenge to try and be funny about some muslim hero.
#48 Posted by urbashi on December 22, 2004 3:27:05 pm
This one`s been doing the e-mail rounds for a couple of years! Something newer, please.
#47 Posted by urbashi on December 22, 2004 3:27:05 pm
Romair, As I`m sure you know, Santa/Father Christmas is fat, white, and dressed in those weird red robes because the figure/s from whom he derives (not just St Nicholas) is/are pre-Christian mythical beings from Finland/Scandinavia/Russia who used to be part of the winter festivities in pagan Europe (centring on 25 Dec in most of Europe, which is why the early Christians decided to celebrate that day as Jesus`s birthday, while it`s more probable that he was actually born in summer, in June). Incidentally, the Finnish Santa was not the loveable old man he`s supposed to be today but quite a frightening person, who used to turn up to punish all the children who were naughty throughout the year.
Ultimately, truth will out. No wonder the religiosity is going out of Christmas and we`re back to the winter celebrations of the eternal cycle of fertility in Nature.
A lot of appropriation going on there. The early Christians were clever politicians, weren`t they?
Ultimately, truth will out. No wonder the religiosity is going out of Christmas and we`re back to the winter celebrations of the eternal cycle of fertility in Nature.
A lot of appropriation going on there. The early Christians were clever politicians, weren`t they?
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