The Middle Kingdom Wallas

#79 by kaalchakra

Truer words have never been written. :)

Urstruly #62

`` Sometimes, when I read about China and India, as the emerging superpowers, I wonder what either of the counties has to offer to the rest of the world. Neither of them have any ideology nor any values, and not even principles that can address the contemporary problems in the world. Being a good shopkeeper is not equivalent to being a leader and a guide. So what, if they start selling and buying most of the stuff produced in the world – then what? ``

You have a point - you need values to be a superpower. USA offered capitalism, democracy, free markets etc. For all its faults Soviet Union offered communism, socialism, weapons etc. China and India are still poor, developing countries. I think India and China will be political, economic, intellectual and military giants that will reshape the world like the way USA is doing now. The reason will be a highly skilled massive workforce. When Bangladesh cannot compete with China in the textile industry you watch out.

`` The truth of the matter is that world is clamouring out for political and economic equity. It already has one too many superpowers. It doesn’t need more – thank you very much. Lets all please get out of 19th century, which ended a hundred years ago. Now this world has shrunken to the size of a village and at the same time capitalists are becoming more vicious and more aggressive in response – because that is the only option they are left with. What happened in the aftermath of Tsunami is an eye opener; Capitalists were forced to open the coffers, which they did grudgingly; all to avert a global sedition, which now seems so inevitable.``

When you say the world is clamouring for political and economic equity I take it as a translation for ``Your Islamic ideology does not have a response to India and China``. It depends on what you mean as ``equity``. There is no reason why views of groups like the Taliban ought to be considered.

tahmadji,

I will be most greatful if you translate Mr Ispahani`s post(s) for me.
My english spelling & grammer are admittedly flawed.
I`m not sure if mian Isphahani`s english or mind is the problem..

It reminds me of a Mongol ruler, Kublai Khan, the great, who once had China or vice versa. In his time there was a small minority of Muslims in China, like Ahmadies in Pakistan. It was reported to the Khan that there were some people in China who believe in a religion called Islam who call us `Kafars` (infidel) and their Book ordains them to exterminate all kafars. On hearing this the Khan ordered the leader of that sect to be produced before him. The Khan asked the Mulla who was presented before him whether their Book ordained them to kill us whom you consider as kafars. The Mulla said , ``Yes, it does so``. The Khan asked, ``Then why don`t you kill us?`` The Talibani Mulla said, ``We will do so when our time comes.`` Upon hearing this the Khan became furious and said ``But my time is here.`` And then ordered all Muslims to be gathered and killed before their time comes and they kill us. But before this massacre was to be carried out some enlightened and moderate Muslims realising the predicament presented themselves before the Khan and submitted that they did not consider the Mongols as kafars as they do believe in some supper power named `Aasman` (the sky). So they saved the Muslims from the wrath of Kublai Khan.

Today the Chinese rulers do not believe in any Super Power whatsoever but inspite of that they are called the best friends of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and even Talibani Mulla of Pakistan who defy the Super Power of America do not call them kafars, perhaps because they are more afraid of, what they call, `Yahood-o-Hanood` who do believe in some sort of a Super Power. What is this Islam? Can somebody enlighten me?

tahmed32 to shankar : ``I thought you would understand what`s going on here since you do this for a living.``

He doesn`t work unless being paid:-)

re:#69 by shankar
Thanks for your post.
I agree with you when you say China is much ahead of India. Chinese communist party also seems to have brought in a lot of reforms in rural areas. Rural poverty in china is much less than in India. India has to find ways of benefitting its rural masses. All the prosperity that has happened in the last 10 years or so is limited to certain areas and is predominantly an urban phenomenon.
Please read what a Chinese writer has to say about India:
http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=412635
Sridhar

#70 by singularity
``And the whole world is witness to the power of Indian ideas.``
And what ideas would that be?
India does influence west in spirituality. In turn, it has taken most of the ideas of democrazy, institution building etc from the West. India of today seems to look up to USA as a role model. You may read an interesting artilce ``Americanization`` in the Url:
http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=412520

No doubt India also influenced South East Asia in a distant past. Imprints of that can still be seen in places like Thailand, Indonesia. This is all a 2 way game and nobody is a winner or a loser.
USA will remain an intellectual giant for years to come and will continue to influence the way we think and act. China has started to make its presence felt globally. Its position will get a boost after the next Olympics to be held in China.
After being shackled in Nehruvian socialism and ``licence raj`` , India has finally woken up to its own potentials. It will take many decades for India to make an impact globally if it continues on the present growth trajectory. One big detriment is corruption in high places. I do not see India tackling this head on so far while China is doing it.

``Today, in the nooks and corners of the US, people take up Yoga and Meditation.``
While increasing number of Americans are interested in things like Yoga and other forms of eastern meditation techniques, Indians in India seem to be moving away from their roots. How many schools in India teach yoga? In the name of secular education, India is fast losing its roots.

``China for all its civilizational achievement is no match for India`s cultural magic.``
That may be your view though an average Chinese will laugh at this statement.

You seem to be critical of Judeo-Chritian traditions but sitting in US, i have lived through the tragedy of Tsunami and one thing that came out loud and clear was the generosity of average American (most of who are christians) during this tragedy. My sister told me today that an average of 10% and more Americans have contributed towards Tsunami relief effort. This is unprecedented. Hindus can learn philanthropy from christians.
In the end, it is good to be proud of what you are (like i am proud of my Indian heritage) but it is also good to have your foot firm on the ground. Your post suggests you are floating in a fantasy land.
Sridhar

Re:Romair

What do you Pakistanis see in these Chaptas, er, I mean the Chinese :-) ? They dont talk like us, they dont think like us, they dont eat like us. They are pretty much from some other planet as far as we desis are concerned. How can you guys even imagine choosing them over us Indians? I mean, come on, can a chinese ever appreciate a good Sardarji joke or a typical Punjabi gaali? Can a chinese ever appreciate a Bollywood movie or Mohammad Rafi? Heck, a chinese will probably find Aishwarya Rai to be ugly. And we will probably throw up on whatever they consider to be pretty. And you want to be their allies :-)? I can understand, if you choose Turkey or Iran over us based on Islam, but China? Good heavens!!

#87 RShridhar,
The ideas of Democracy in the west arose out of the need to separate state and the church. It is only a working arrangement. People are not inherent and natural democrats coz of their Tribal, White, Christian Root. They grudgingly follow the law. The law can hold a soceity only during good times. During times of crisis no LAW can hold them to practice equality. That is when their inherent belief in their IN-TOLERANT, Il-logically superior dogmas will surface.

On the Other hand Democracy is natural to Indians. Throughout Indian history, event the Kings followed certain principles. That is our civilizational achievement.

India will look up to the US for the next decade or so. The Ameircanization of India is not happening to the extent that media claims. Indians are evolving a hybrid culture and eventually will absorb western influences and make it distinctly Indian.

The Indian ideas are the truth about Hindu Dharma, that God is Universal and that the whole Universe is One family. That is a powerful idea. An evolved west will grab on to that idea just like the whole of Asia grabbed on to Buddism in the past. Christianity wont sell in an increasingly knowledge based world. So they will have to turn to a more spiritual version of christianity, which is the essence of Dharmic faith.

Secondly, Indians are not loosing touch with their roots. If any, they are returning back to the root. It will happen with more resources at the people`s disposal. More will try to learn Indian history. Arts always follows wealth creation. It is Technology which initially leads the wealth creation. Only if wealth is there people can move on to Arts and History.So it will happen.

thirdly, as for the donation, Indians this time have donated $ 100 million to PM TSUNAMI relief fund in 3 weeks. It took close to a year to collect the same amount in 2001 during Gujarat Earth quake. Also many individual donations and voluntary work has been unprecedented in a typically indifferent Indian mass. What this shows is that people will donate ONLY if they feel confident about their finanacial status and are confident about their financial future. Also, per capita, India is still a poor country than US and will remain so in my lifetime. So More Americans can donate more per capita than Indians. But that doesn`t mean Indians are not as giving. It only means that Americans of today are more wealthy and more confident of their financial future than Indians. Watch out how that pattern swiftly changes when the US enters a prolonged recession in the next 7/8 years after the Baby boomer retirement.

#79 Kaalchakra, #82 Mohar11: There are still some Indians with British hangover who think ascertianing yourself is against Indian ethos. But as India gets that animal spirit such people will jump fence.

To set the record straight:

So that the secularists, atheists, munafiques, liberals & all ilks-tilks can feel singed & roasted right here & now, before their departure for the real fire-works.

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According to Muslim traditions, when the early Muslims were being persecuted in Mecca some of them were allowed to migrate to Habash (Abyssinia) but most of them later came back, including the famous companions and muazzin Bilal. However, the Books of Individual Records noticed that four companions did not return, one of them being Abi Waqqas, a maternal uncle of the Holy Prophet. It is narrated that Abi Waqqas had gained favour with the Najashi King of Habash who had allowed him to sail to China.
This tallies with the account of Liu Chih (who wrote a 12-volume Life of the Prophet in Chinese in 1721 A.D.) according to which Abi Waqqas, the Holy Prophets maternal uncle, arrived in China with three other Sahaba. Broomhall gives the date of this arrival in China of the Sahaba

The introduction so Islam in Western China makes a still more colourful and fascinating study. According to Tang Dynasty (618-907 A.D.) records, two embassies, one from Yezdegrid, the grandson of Khosroes and the other from the Roman Empire, came to the court of Tai Tsung, the second tang Emperor (627-650) in 638 and 643 respectively and both reported their defeats at the hands of the Arabs. Yezdegird, the last of Sassanian Kings of Iran, had sought refuge with the Turkish tribes of Ferghana an had also sought friendship with Emperor Tai Tsung whose capital was at Chang An (modern Sian). The Chinese of the time were at the hight of their power, and had their frontiers with the persian Empire. In 650 Tai Tsung died and his son, Emperor Kao Tsung, received an appeal for aid from Firuz, the son of Yezdegird. Kao Tsung sent an emissary to Caliph Osman at Madina to plead for Firuz and the Caliph in return sent one of his generals to Sian in 651 and thus the first Muslim Embassy was established in Western China.
During the reign of the Omayyad Caliph, Walid I, Central Asia, India, North Africa and Spain were being conquered. At the time when Mohammad Bin Qasim had landed in Sind, Qutaiba Bin Muslim was making advances in Central Asia. Emperor Hsuan Tsung and the envoy refused to kow tow to the Emperor saying he could only bow to the Almighty Allah. However, Qutaiba agreed to release the Chinese prisoners on the condition that they taught Muslims how to make paper an art the Chinese had masteres. Thus the art of paper-making was acquired by the Arabs and taken to Baghdad. From there this art spread to Egypt, Spain and later to Europe.
It was because of the death of Caliph Walid I (719 A.D.) the assassination of Qutaiba and the overthrow of the Omayyads by the Abbasids that the Arab advance in Central Asia was halted. This period corresponds in time with the Battle of Tours in France (732 A.D.) when Muslim advances in Europe were also halted.
In 755 A.D., five years after the rise of the Abbasids, during the reign of Abu Jaffar, the 3rd Abbasid Caliph, a rebellion broke out in China the leader of which was a Turk named An Lu-shan. Emperor Hasuan Tsung was driven from his capital and he abdicated in favour of his son Su Tsung (756-763 A.D.) who appealed to the Arabs for help. Abu Jaffar sent 4,000 Muslim soldiers who recovered Sian and Honanfu for the Emperor in 757 A.D. These soldiers never went back, but instead married in China and formed the nucleus of the naturalised Chinese Muslims in Western China whose descendents live there even today. The story was repeated by Tai Tsung (763-780 A.D.), son of Su Tsung, who also sought help from Abu Jaffar when 300,000 Tibetans invaded his kingdom. Abu Jaffar sent a large contingent so much so that the Chinese government was obliged to double the tax on tea to raise funds to pay them. These Muslims also settled down in Western China and some in Yunnan, in South China, where they came to be known as Panthays.
As a result of contact with Muslim armies, many people accepted Islam, among them a tribe ralled Hui Chi, after whom the Muslims of China were known until the time of the Yuan (Mongol) dynasty, when the name was changed to Hui-Hui, by which name they are still known. But there is another name, which is generally used by Muslims, that is, Ching Zhen, In Chinese, Islam is called Ching Zhen Jiao, meaning Pure Religion, as Ching and Zhen mean clean and real respectively.

Muslims Under Sung, Yuan and Ming Dynasties:
During the Sung Dynasty (960-1280), the Court Records mention twenty embassies from Arabia. Muslims received good treatment from the kings of this dynasty and many of them were given titles and appointed to high posts.
The news of this treatment spread to the Muslim countries and many Muslims came from Turkestan to find employment in the Chinese army.
During the Mongol period (Yuan Dynasty, 1260-1368 A.D.) the Muslims thrived and established themselves as an important section of Chinese society.
The records of Yuan Dynasty include many biographies of distinguished Muslims who were employed by the Mongols. Sayid Ajjal (Sai Tien-Chih) of Bokhara became the conqueror and governor of Yunnan. His son, Nasaruddin is mentioned by Marco Polo. He distinguished himself in the wars against Cochin China and Burma. Alauddin (A-lao-wa-ting) and Ismail (I-ssu-ma-yin) were sent from Persia to China as expert makers. Their machines were used in the catapult siege of Siang Yang fu in 1271 A.D. Jamal-ud-Din, a Persian astronomer presented to Kublai Khan seven Persian astronomical instruments (1267 A.D.) and a new chronology entitled Wannianli (The Ten Thousand Year Chronology).
Under the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) also, the Muslims enjoyed privileges, and, both in the army and the civil services, occupied high positions. Numerous embassies came to China from Arabia and Muslim arts and crafts influenced China. A number of Muslim artistic motifs can be seen in the famous Ming porcelain and the beautiful blue of this porcelain is due to the introduction of Persian cobalt. A good deal of porcelain belonging to this period bears Arabic words and inscriptions and verses from the Holy Quran. Moreover, many shapes of Tang, Sung and Ming china are based on those common in Islamic countries.
During the Ming period, Admiral Zheng Ho and his lieutenant Ma Huan (Muhammad Hasan) became famous as navigators and explorers. Zheng Ho was the name bestowed on Sai Ho Ch`ih (i.e. Sayyid Haji) by Yung Lo, the third Emperor of the Ming. He is also known by the title San Pao Kung (Our Master of the Three Jewels) given to him by the grateful Chinese settlers of South East Asia, who worship him to this day as one of their saints. Zheng Ho was born in 1371 A.D. in the fourth year of the reign of the first Ming Emperor Hung Wu. Having los this father at the early age of twelve he joined military service and took a prominent part in the subjugation of his ancestral Yunnan province fro the newly risen Ming power. he achieved spectacular successes in the pacification of the frontier provinces of China while he was still in his teens. His distinguished services to the state brought him royal favour, which he utilised for the welfare of his fellow Muslims, A living monument of his solicitude for the Chinese Muslims is the stone tablet of the Sian mosque, which commemorates some of the generous concessions that he obtained for them from the grateful Emperor. In 1403 Emperor Yung Lo ascended the throne and planned to extend the Chinese political influence and trade overseas. For this ambitious venture he selected Zheng Ho to lead Chinese armadas in the China Sea and the Indian Ocean. The story of his seven maritime expeditions has few parallels in the history of navigation. Having churned the waves of the Western Pacific and Indian Ocean almost a century before Vasco da Gama reached India, Zheng Ho made his last voyage to the Eternal Home in 1435 at the age of 65.

The Panthays of Yunnan:
Islam was introduced in Yunnan (literally South of Clouds ) province by the soldiers of Kublai khan in the beginning of Yuan Dynasty (1260-1368 A.D.). Marco Polo writes of the presence of Saracens in Yunnan. Rashid-ud-Din, who died in 1316 A.D. wrote: All inhabitants of Yachi (modern Talifu) are Mohammedans . Kublai Khan united this province in 1257 A.D. and appointed one of his ministers Sai Tien-Chih (Syed Ajjal) as governor. Syed Ajjal was from Bokhara and traced his lineage to the Holy Prophet in the 27th generation. His son Nasaruddin and grandson Saddi were also governors of Yunnan.
It was during the Manchu rule that the Panthays of Yunnan (so named after the Burmese name for Muslims) had their difficulties and clashes with the Central government in which millions are said to have perished. An Imam of Talifu, Ma Teh-hsing and his lieutenant Ma Hsien (Mohammad Hassan) declared their independence in 1855 and so did Tu Wen-siu (Sultan Suleiman) who made Talifu his capital at a time when the Central government was engaged in the Taiping uprising and the Second Opium War which led to the occupation of Peking by Western powers.
Sultan Sulaiman adopted the title of Generalissimo (Yuan Shuai) and established regular caravan trade with Burma. Ma Hsien, meanwhile, accepted service with the Imperial Army in the rank of Brigadier General (Chen Tai). While serious differences arose between Ma Hsien and Sultan Sulaiman, the Taiping uprising was put down with the help of General (Chinese) Gordon in 1864 and the Central government then concentrated forces against Sultan Sulaiman. It is said that when he was finally convinced of his impending defeat at the hands of Imperial Army at Talifu, Sultan Sulaiman first poisoned his three wives and five daughters and then himself committed suicide on 15 January 1873 after having ruled the area for 16 years. Since then the population of Panthays in Yunnan has been on the decrease.

The tungans of Western China:

Tungan or Dungan is the word for converts in turkish and the term was generally used for muslims in the areas now comprising Kansu, Ningsha and Xinjiang. These were the people converted to Islam through contacts with Arabs since the days of Tang Dynasty. Vigurs (or Vighurs), a Turkish race originally Buddhists, they had followed the example of their beloved prince Sartook Bookra Khan (Satoq Bughra Khan) and had become Muslims en masse.
The Tungans also had a difficult time under the Manchus specially in 1785, from 1862 to 1876 and in 1895 because they resented wearing of Manchu style queues and also the restrictions imposed on building mosques and performing pilgrimage etc.

The Story of Yaqub Beg:

Yaqub Khan came to Chinese Turkistan from Khokand in 1864 as a subordinate officer with approximately 60 men. Being a man of action and ability, he set up an independent kingdom in Yangi Hissar, Kashgar and Yarkand which lasted for 12 years. The Amir of Bokhara conferred on him the title of Atalik Ghazi. He added Kucha, Aksu, Urumchi and Turfan to his territories and in 1872 his independence was recognised by the Russians and subsequently by Britain and Turkey. The Sultan of Turkey conferred on him the title of Amir-ul-Momineen. In the meantime the Ching Emperor having successfully dealt with the Taiping uprising, deputed an experienced general, Tso Chung-tang, to establish Chinese suzeranity in the area. General Tso raised an Agricultural Army which produced its own food as it went along thus overcoming the logistic problem of crossing the Gobi desert. The campaign was slow and it cost the Chinese government 30 million pound sterling but it succeeded. Urumchi fell in 1876. Yaqub Beg suddenly died on 1st May 1877. Although the Ching Emperor tolerated a Muslim local chieftain at Turfan, his position was maintained for political purposes without any real power.

Recent History

Coming nearer our times, Dr. Sun Yatsens revolution which delivered the Chinese people from the Manchus and overthrew the Ching Dynasty in 1911 was welcomed by the Chinese Muslims also. Dr. Sun Yatsen proclaimed the doctrine of harmony and equality of five races . These five races (or nationalities as these are called now) were Han, Manchu, Tibetan, Mongol and Hui (i.e. Muslim) and are represented on the flag of the People`s Republic by the 5 stars. During this period Muslims were appointed to important positions in the Army and they also secured seats in the National Legislative Assembly and held high posts in the Nationalist government.
When Chairman Mao led the Workers and Peasants Red Army in the famous Long March of 6,000 miles (1934-35), many Muslims joined the Red Army. It is said that a mosque was built for them at Yenan, Chairman Maos headquarters after the Long March. later, during the war against the japanese and during the struggle against Chiang Kai Shek, most Chinese Muslims joined the struggle alongwith the majority of the Han Chinese. Xinjiang was secured without a fight due to the efforts of Burhan Shahidi and Aziz Saifuddin. Burhan Shahidi is now the President of the Islamic Association of China and Saifuddin an Alternate Member of the Politburo. Chairman Mao and Premier Zhou Enlai took special care to look after the Muslims in China so much so that the People`s Liberation Army was especially instructed to follow at 10-point code in Muslim areas which include the protection of Mosques, a ban on eating or mentioning of pork and a ban on fraternisation with Muslim women. During the Agrarian Reforms of 1950, when all lands belonging to temples and monasteries were nationalised, the waqf (endowment) property attached to the mosques was exempted from confiscation. Article three of the agriculture Reform Law (1950) stipulated that lands belonging to the mosques may be kept by them depending on circumstances and with the consent of the Muslim residents in the area where the mosques are located .

After the down-fall of the Gang of Four the People`s Government under the directions of the present leaders has implemented a policy of national equality and regional autonomy. They have followed a liberal policy towards religious minorities aimed at allowing freedom of religious belief and freedom to speak and write minority languages and respect for the customs and habits of the minorities. Old mosques are being renovated and reopened. The famous Peking Niu Chief mosque (built in 996 A.D.) for instance, has been completely renovatedand draws large crowds of Muslims not only on festivals but on Fridays and weekdays. One can see that the environment for Muslims in China is growing more and more congenial.