Let the People Meet

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arjun_m #24

#21 by HisExcellency on January 10, 2005 11:20am PT

Plus we both possess a ``nuclear`` dog to keep trespassers away.

Going by that logic, russians wouldn`t need visas to get to the US...

Trespassers don`t apply for visas :-))
And strong states like the US don`t secure themselves by reducing the number of B1/2 visas. They invest in fingerprinting technology & background checks to distinguish between known criminals & innocuous tourists who spend their $$ at Madison Ave. India can learn a thing or two from the US about balancing national security with tourism/people-to-people contact.

harish_hyd #27

``Your compatriots have gotten as far as Akshardham in Gujarat and Hyderabad in South India``.

My ``compatriots`` didn`t obtain a visa. They were either Indian citizens who decided to take to the gun out of frustration... or they were Pakistanis who infiltrated India illegally. The restrictive visa policy didn`t prevent them from entering India and carrying out their attacks. It only succeeded in keeping out innocuous tourists.

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re:#19 by amit

``I agree with you that Indians are not as aware of Pakistan as Pakistanis are about India. Maybe it is because Pakistanis are exposed to Bollywood,....``.
And, Bollywood,with its women dancing in half bikinis, gyrating their hips or men with perfectly chiselled faces and good clothes represent the true face of India, right?
Get a life guys.
Pakis are much more ignorant about India than vice-versa mainly because of the indoctrination and disinformation being spread in that country for many decades now.
My best friend in Residency program confessed to me (after we became good friends) that his first impulse on seeing so many Indians in the program was to run away and join another program with less Indians. After he became friendly with every Indian in the program and got invited to their homes for lunch, he confessed he thought Indians would not even allow a muslim into their houses due to their caste system and was surprised he got invited to their homes!
Many Pakis i met in New York thought Indian women had low morals (because of the way they were projected in Bollywood) and were an easy ``lay``. This opinion was across the board among the Pakis i met (and i met a lot of them). They bemoaned the fact that women in Pak were much more conservative.
So much for Romair the moron`s claim that Pakis know much more about India than Indians about Pak. Actually, even if Indians do not know much about Pak, they do not harbor such nonsensical views about Pak. Most Indians think of Pak as a dangerous place where jehad is practised and they would not be wrong in that.
Meanwhile, read the following article and know the reality:
http://in.news.yahoo.com/040329/139/2c9uj.html
And read this Op-Ed piece from a Paki in Daily Times:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/print.asp?page=story_3-4-2004_pg3_2
Sridhar

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Amit,
:)

Re:hamidm#26

Hamid chacha, how can you even compare India and Pakistan with Serb-Turkey, Armenian-Turkey etc? Those other guys, they are just amateur haters who just hate each other :-). We Indians and Pakistanis have an industrial strength love-hate relationship that would put any married couple to shame. There are layers in our relationship which can bewilder any sane person. When we hate each other, we want to nuke each other to dust. When we love each other, we want to go to Lahore and Delhi to make love to each other :-). When we try to ignore each other, it lasts about 1 second. Our maulanas and pandits will breathe fire on their own but on face to face meetings start giving each other jhappis and pappis. Our shopkeepers refuse to take money from the visitors from the other side. Our internet warriors would commit suicide if they cannot visit the sites run by the other side :-). And you want to separate the lovebirds?

#18 by HisExcellency

[It is exactly these kinds of phobias and preconceived notions that people-to-people contact is meant to shatter. I find such phobias more prevalent among Indians than Pakistanis, largely because of the negative stereotypes that Indian media (film, TV, especially) propagate about Pakistan.]

What other impression do you expect us to have when Pakis cross the LoC on a daily basis and kill Indians? Your compatriots have gotten as far as Akshardham in Gujarat and Hyderabad in South India. Why blame the Indian media, when all Pakis are known for in India is Cricket or killing Indians?

HisExcellency #18

`` Are you anxious that some Pakistani visitor to Jaipur or Agra will kill the Hindu curator of Rani Gayatri`s palace or Taj Mahal? Or are you worried that an Indian visitor in Lahore will be attacked by some street hawker in Anarkali bazaar? ``

Nope.

`` It is exactly these kinds of phobias and preconceived notions that people-to-people contact is meant to shatter. I find such phobias more prevalent among Indians than Pakistanis, largely because of the negative stereotypes that Indian media (film, TV, especially) propagate about Pakistan. ``

What is the point of giving journalists visas if you cannot travel freely ? Nobody is asking you to give free access to military bases, sensitive border areas etc. If entire provinces are off-limits due to govt restrictions or hostility from local populace it is a different story. Western journalists have been hounded if they went outside of Islamabad. Their Pakistani contacts have been thrown in prison and tortured.

Being able to visit India is a privilege not a right. Pakistani citizens need to understand that if their establishment is going to indulge in anti-Indian propaganada, given refugee to elements that indulge in acts of violence against India the odds are that the Indian state will treat them in a hostile manner.

I live outside of India. I get most of news and information about Pakistan from non-Indian sources. I am capable of digesting raw data and drawing my conclusions.

...... this is ridiculous !......... there should be a complete ban on travel of any kind between the two countries and violaters should be treated as traitors ........... what is the point ? ........ familiarity will only breed more contempt ......... most of the people who have any reason to visit the other side are either dead or should be dying pretty soon ..........dost-mittar has already been, and the rest don`t count ........ and what`s there to see on the other side?........ more human misery, but this time mixed in with wandering cows ?

.......... ever met a third generation american-serb or american-armenian ?.......... do they have any desire to go to turkey, bosnia, albania or croatia ?.......... most serbians would rather go to hell before they go to any of those places and, i am sure it is the same with the horrible hindoos and the pathetic pakis .........

............. let`s just stay where we are .......these silly attempts at reconciliation are nonsense ......... i am sure there are some people who stand to make a buck from herding beef on the hoof and dalda vanaspati across the border, or whatever, but they are idiots who should be shot for treason .........

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When the Pakistani government is offering you visaless travel to India, all expenses paid, your family taken care of, then why apply for visas to India?

By applying for Indian visas a Pakistani is essentially saying what his government and his/her compatriots are doing(visa-less entry all expenses paid) is illegal. Why be so unpatriotic to Pakistan?

Make up your minds which it is and don`t try to have it both ways.

stuka #16
``Basically the Indian gov`t also has an attitude that the visa problem is a Muslim one, hence no real incentive to solve it``

You are probably right. It appears that the Indian govt has taken the [myopic] position that an [Indian] Muslim problem is not really its problem. However, this attitude discounts the potential of Indian Muslims to affect Pakistani perceptions about India and Indian government policies about Pakistan.

nikki7777 #15
``Good fences make good neighbors. And a ferocious dog will keep the relatives away``

This is a manifestation of typical South Asian insecurity. Insecurity about visitors and family is understable for weak African nations. But for India and Pakistan, such insecurities and phobias are purely psychological. The Indo-Pakistan fence is already one of the most heavily guarded fences in the world. Plus we both possess a ``nuclear`` dog to keep trespassers away. If a growing economy, huge military and strong intelligence network will not make us feel safe enough to entertain visitors, I wonder what will?